Timing of posting photos

Pure Energy · April 12, 2012

Feel free to tell me what you would do from this day forward regarding new photo shoots... but please let me know how you would handle the following scenario:

I shot pictures of an event at several different occasions over the years. Now that I have a SmugMug site, I have finally posted photos but not from the most recent event. As predicted by others, I have not had any sales yet. That's really not surprising due to the lack of marketing, word of mouth and no one visiting my site yet.

Now that I've compiled a list of email addresses, I can email as many people as possible to let them know that I've posted some photos. Then, when I have the photos posted from the most recent event, I can email them a second time.

OR

I could spend the time right away on a group that may not purchase any photos (versus a group that may) and post the photos from the most recent event and email them the link once, thereby avoiding anyone asking "what about the most recent event's photos."

Overall, I would think sending an email each time a new gallery is up would be better and if you agree with that... when should the most recent gallery be posted (since the event was not recent)?

AceCo55 · April 13, 2012

To be honest, the horse has probably bolted already. Online sales are not a big winner as far as I can tell. Sure, people LOVE to look at their photos but that doesn't translate into sales. If these events are some time ago, I think the impulse to buy has probably diminished. I think Glort would probably say you needed to have got sales on the day - prints ready to go.
Posting now and sending emails will more likely be about brand recognition than sales.

Getting an email to say you have posted photos from the events - but not including the latest event sends the wrong message. Not only has it taken a looooong time to post previous events, I haven't even gotten around to processing the latest event. In reality they should have been posted within the same week as the event - and sooner if possible. If I then started getting other emails telling me you had got around to posting another gallery ... I would get annoyed and just start deleting your emails. BUT THAT IS ME ... perhaps these people would overwhelmingly love to see photos from this "event".

I just don't think it sends a very good message about your business practices if they have taken a long time to post. Maybe I'm missing something here but I am going on the sketchy info you have provided. If there were other information I may have a different OPINION. (only an opinion - don't ever take it as fact)

Pure Energy · April 13, 2012

I'm just looking for ways to put my best foot forward and to start digging myself out of this abyss I seem to be in at the moment.

Cygnus Studios · April 13, 2012

I take it that you are not getting paid to shoot these events?

Spec shooting is one of the worst money generating streams possible, however, if you must do it, there are some ways to make it worth while.

Point of Sale is the best. Having people come over to your table and seeing the prints and paying on the spot works, but it requires an outlay of equipment to successfully do this.

The next option is having people view the images on site and purchase via your website. This isn't quite the "buy it now" response, but close.

The last option is getting the word out prior to the event. People should know that they can see/purchase images 24 hours after the event.

Also consider that print sales are fast becoming a thing of the past. People want to share images not pass around a print. They want to post on facebook or google + and have all their friends and family see it within minutes. They can't do that with an 8x10 print.

If you put these images online most people will take a quick look and either screen capture the shot or pass the gallery around to their friends without ever buying anything.

Pure Energy · April 13, 2012

Hmmm... not sure how what you said helps me with what I'm asking... but you raise valid points on how to be the all inclusive photographer that handles everything onsite to put my best foot forward for the shoot tomorrow... which the hobbyist and person without a sizable loan would find very intimidating to do.

Thanks to AceCo55 I'm considering leaning towards posting the most recent event before emailing anybody about photos posted earlier. Unless of course, others give insight to other ways to approach this.

What about the following two scenarios:

1) Yearly event where I'm not the only photographer there.

The other photographer shoots spectacular photos with a better camera and provided them free of charge to the main person, who then sells the DVDs for like $10 each (idk... 1-20 sold?).
I think I have a few special photos that people may want and isn't on the other photographer's DVD.
There's a chance that a few parents have not seen or even know about the DVD that is available.

Question: I could post the most recent event and go backwards in time when I get a chance... or post the oldest event and go forward... maybe adding some suspense or knowledge that something new will eventually be posted.

2) Yearly event... where I'm the most talented photographer there and sometimes there might be someone with a semi-decent camera shooting a tenth or twentieth of what I shoot.

It was shot with film many years ago.
It was shot with a digital camera as recent as six months ago.
No one is expecting to see my photos or anyone else's available for purchase online.
Any photos they saw of the event were more likely to have been published or shot with little p&s cameras and cell phones.
Any photos they wanted, I could have been contacted by now by about 10% of the group very easily.

Question: In the case of scanning negatives, it might be what can be found first instead of posting chronologically forward or backwards... but what's the opinion of what to post first, if able to? Or does it not really matter?

The quick impulse buys of purchasing onsite for any of these photos is long gone. Those that are looking to purchase photos will be ecstatic. Those that like to complain... are most likely right-clicking and saving.

Pure Energy · April 15, 2012

Hoping people discover my site without at least contacting them once (through email) would definitely insure low sales. And I think some people would not be happy to find my site if they ever thought they were going to be contacted once there are photos posted.

I think the facts surrounding shooting on spec and posting online is being skewed by those that are finding more success with printing on site supplemented with the different ideas on what to do with the photos afterwards. It's like comparing apples to oranges and it would be better if one knew the number of prints and sizes, collage photos and various other items that are sold onsite and online versus the overall dollar amounts. Some ideas for onsite photographers posting online could be for a:

"limited time" before images are removed
"limited prices" before they are raised
some sort of discount
some other idea
or not done at all

...that either supplements their onsite sales or doesn't. Knowing numbers and not dollar amounts, one could extrapolate just how much they are missing from either onsite or online sales.

For some of the events that I would like to continue shooting on spec and posting online, the people with the wallets are not there for purchasing onsite. Occasionally, I get invited to show my photos at the end of the season/event banquet which brings up more problems like not enough computers for viewing, not enough time for viewing, too many photos for viewing, and not enough people with wallets for purchasing. That is to say, the people with disposable income are not there in either situation. I do not think that you could do any better if you were to shoot these events.

... pausing to re-read your comment...

Ok, you probably wouldn't do these events. Perhaps, I can approach them differently to make it worthwhile (financially). You, others and some family members have given me ideas on what to consider doing.

Glort wrote: »

The very fact you are talking about who has the better camera and who is the more talented shooter is a billboard size sign...

In my previous post, I was just adding information I thought some might find useful. I know I could probably shoot the crappiest photos you've ever seen and probably make a darn good living doing so with more experience with marketing, advertising and sales. To further explain the above situations, I find my photos are pretty much shot as is, and for the person with the better camera, he is cropping his photos to practically match my shot, with less noise and is just as sharp. Competing with his (nearly) free photos on a DVD... means offering something he doesn't have. As for the other situation... I can't be certain of what other cameras were there but I'm confident that nearly all of my shots are unique.

Your insistence that onsite sales and prepaid sales through the event organizers as the only ways to go is great to hear and I'll be looking to add what I can when I can to set myself apart from what I was yesterday. I'm even thinking about what I can do for an end of the season/event banquet coming up... for which, I'll be reading in these forums as to what to do, starting a new thread, contacting a few select people for their opinion and/or just doing something.

Anyone else have any ideas regarding the two scenarios I posted in my previous comment in this thread?

Pure Energy · April 15, 2012

Glort wrote: »

Just to be very specific, I do not think one has to print onsite. That is just the delivery method. The key fact is to SELL onsite.
It overcomes a Myriad of problems that come up with online sales.

To further clarify, onsite is not perfect. Both methods have advantages and draw backs but in my personal experience and those of other people whom are SUCCESSFUL and have been doing event work long term, onsite always wins over online.

I started to think near the end of my post that when I am thinking of onsite with what you are saying... I am primarily thinking of delivery onsite which doesn't necessarily need to include printing onsite.

I took the 4th option.

Care to explain more? I am thinking of variations of all options.

Yeah, I have heard all these excuses as well 1000 times.

Two things eventually stood out for me:

1. When I put the pics online and marketed the hell out of them even with every competitor getting a web link on their program and papering all the windows in the car park, I still got no online orders.
What I did notice was a distinct drop in onsite sales. I later realized all I was doing was giving them an excuse not to buy today and they sure as hell didn't buy later.

2. When I told people that the images wouldn't be online, the people that told me they had no time to look always found time and often spent longer looking than most. the people that had no money always seemed to come up with some and the people that couldn't find their photos always had us there to help them find them straight away.

I totally get that these are excuses that people say... I am a part of other groups that have some wealthy members and am amazed at what I hear sometimes. So, I kind of laugh on the inside sarcastically when I hear they don't have money to spend on photos. Then I think about whether I would view my parents the same way... then laugh a bit less... but ultimately, someone not saying they have money is laughable. To paraphrase... best example from someone whom I thought was not wealthy... "I won't give you a dime for my pictures, they're my pictures. (then I hear they had their SUV stolen and then they got a new one)... I'm bummed the other SUV got stolen with some great wheels... check out the (expensive) tricked out wheels on this."

So, when I mentioned that those people that are onsite do not have money or the ones that would spend are probably not there... please take me at my word. Now, when you mention hitting a target of $10 per person onsite... maybe the idea of everyone not having $5 to spend is laughable but quite possible. Some of these groups... I'd like to think they would buy photos... if not today... maybe someday, even if they jack my photos at low-res with watermarks.

You need to have the shots online no more than 24 hours after the event.
After that your sales will fall off markedly.

I need to learn more tricks before marketing with flyers and cards to have pics up within 24 hours for certain events. But I get that that should be the goal for future events I shoot.

What's the oldest gallery of photos you have up on your site?
Do you or other people see the orders eventually adding up over time after the excuse of "we're waiting for more photos to be posted" is no longer relevant?

Are people just marketing their new pictures, getting the word out and hoping they visit once to check it out and visit it again from time to time to see if older photos, whether shot on film or not, were ever uploaded?

Short of mailing something to people's homes... sending an email seems to be the best way to target those that would want to know when photos are posted, especially, if I don't think they know where my site is.

justus · April 17, 2012

Why would you be at an event shooting when there is already another photographer there? They could have already been appointed as the Official Photographer by the organizer of the event. Sounds like you need to promote your photography ahead of time, so attendees know where to go to view their photos. I would probably post photos from this point forward, not from events that far in the past.

Timing of posting photos

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