B & W - 10 Stop Filter

canon400dcanon400d Banned UserPosts: 2,826Banned Major grins
edited April 24, 2012 in Technique
I have recently been spending more time in taking landscape shots as I am quite close to the Lake District.
I have looked at several landscape shots on Flickr galleries and I am quite amazed at the quality of shots where a B & W 10 stop filter has been used.
I do have the Cokin set of three ND filters 2-4 and 8 stop including the 153 and the 154 for waterfalls.
I would really appreciate if anyone can share their experiences and advise me on the B & W 10 stop filter and when to know how long to do a long exposure under different circumstances. Would this filter improve my landscape photography.
Thanking everyone for all the kind help I have received in the past and I look forward to hearing from anyone once again.
Cheers
Bob

Comments

  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter Posts: 13,980Super Moderators moderator
    edited April 11, 2012
    Hi Bob,

    Long shutter speed shots can be really cool, I use 8x NDs for water falls fairly often.

    You many not be able to focus with a 10x ND on your camera, and you probably cannot see through it either, as it is that dark. You may have to focus first without the filter and then add it on. I do't like doing this, because I always am afraid I am going to move the camera or the focus or something. With LiveView you can see to focus with the 10 stop filter on, I forget that, because I do not use Live view enough.

    I prefer to work with 6x and 8x and add a polarizing filter or double stack NDs if I need a 10. Or use a variable ND like those offered by Singh-Ray.

    I will use a 4x or 6x screw in, and then add a 4x6 in Lee style filter if I need more density, or want to add a graduated ND to selectively darken the sky say.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • DeVermDeVerm Major grins Posts: 405Registered Users Major grins
    edited April 12, 2012
    I just got the B&W 10 stop. It's easy:

    Go to Av mode, choose your aperture and take a shot. Note the shuttertime used; multiply that by 1,000 to get your new shutter time. This puts me into bulb mode normally, so I program my timer remote, switch to manual focus and bulb mode, put the filter on and do the exposure.

    I verify focus in live view with 10x magnification before I put the filter on
    ciao!
    Nick.

    my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
    my Smugmug site: here
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 12, 2012
    DeVerm wrote: »
    I just got the B&W 10 stop. It's easy:

    Go to Av mode, choose your aperture and take a shot. Note the shuttertime used; multiply that by 1,000 to get your new shutter time. This puts me into bulb mode normally, so I program my timer remote, switch to manual focus and bulb mode, put the filter on and do the exposure.

    I verify focus in live view with 10x magnification before I put the filter on

    Thanks for that Pathfinder and I can understand what you are saying. I also appreciate what Deverm has said and that really gives me confidence. I can't wait for my delivery to try out this new aspect in photography. I would really appreciate any exposure times to use during the day or night. Is it trial and error to get it reasonably right.
    Thanks once again as I really appreciate your kind help.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • DeVermDeVerm Major grins Posts: 405Registered Users Major grins
    edited April 12, 2012
    canon400d wrote: »
    I would really appreciate any exposure times to use during the day or night. Is it trial and error to get it reasonably right.

    Only thing to remember is that with the filter you need 1000 times (10 stops) as much light for equal exposure. You can achieve that by a longer exposure, by opening the aperture more, by increasing ISO or a combination of some or all to achieve those 10 stops extra.
    ciao!
    Nick.

    my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
    my Smugmug site: here
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 13, 2012
    DeVerm wrote: »
    Only thing to remember is that with the filter you need 1000 times (10 stops) as much light for equal exposure. You can achieve that by a longer exposure, by opening the aperture more, by increasing ISO or a combination of some or all to achieve those 10 stops extra.

    Thanks ever so much Nick very helpful indeed.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 17, 2012
    canon400d wrote: »
    Thanks ever so much Nick very helpful indeed.
    Cheers
    Bob

    My B&W 10 Stop has arrived and I tried it out tonight. I tried to use the second method using Bulb and then fitting on the filter. However, I can only get my 7D using 24-105 to read 30 secs. I am unable to get into the Bulb mode.
    I tried my 40D and the Bulb mode appeared after the 30 secs no problem at all. Do I need to alter something on the 7D to get into Bulb mode.
    Any help would be more than appreciated.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • DeVermDeVerm Major grins Posts: 405Registered Users Major grins
    edited April 17, 2012
    canon400d wrote: »
    My B&W 10 Stop has arrived and I tried it out tonight. I tried to use the second method using Bulb and then fitting on the filter. However, I can only get my 7D using 24-105 to read 30 secs. I am unable to get into the Bulb mode.
    I tried my 40D and the Bulb mode appeared after the 30 secs no problem at all. Do I need to alter something on the 7D to get into Bulb mode.
    Any help would be more than appreciated.
    Cheers
    Bob

    When you turn the dial to B(ulb) you can press the shutter for as long as you want... days if need be.

    When you stand there pressing the button on the wired remote for a couple of minutes, you'll understand why I program my timer remote instead :D
    ciao!
    Nick.

    my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
    my Smugmug site: here
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter Posts: 13,980Super Moderators moderator
    edited April 17, 2012
    Page 107 of my 7D manual,

    for Bulb Mode, turn the Mode dial to B.

    A remote release is recommended for Bulb exposures, which can range from a few seconds to minutes or even hours.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • DeVermDeVerm Major grins Posts: 405Registered Users Major grins
    edited April 17, 2012
    Reading this again, I think there's some miscommunication, so let me explain how I use this filter again:

    First I mount the camera on tripod with remote release but WITHOUT the filter. Now switch mode dial to Av mode and select the aperture (DoF) you want. Switch to manual focus and make sure focus is tack sharp. Make the shot. Chimp to check if you like the composition and note the exposure time. Let's say it is 1/10 second.

    Now put the filter on and multiply 1/10 * 1000 = 100 seconds. Switch mode dial to B(ulb), check if aperture and ISO is the same as for the test shot and keep pressing the remote shutter button for 100 seconds. I program my timer remote for these 100 seconds instead.

    check the rim of the filter. It says 1000x somewhere on it, that's all to remember. It's a 10-stop filter which would be 1024x but that number is a bit too nerdy so they opted for 1000x :D
    ciao!
    Nick.

    my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
    my Smugmug site: here
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 18, 2012
    pathfinder wrote: »
    Page 107 of my 7D manual,

    for Bulb Mode, turn the Mode dial to B.

    A remote release is recommended for Bulb exposures, which can range from a few seconds to minutes or even hours.

    Thanks Pathfinder I never realised that Bulb was on the dial I thought it automatically appeared after the 30 secs.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 18, 2012
    DeVerm wrote: »
    Reading this again, I think there's some miscommunication, so let me explain how I use this filter again:

    First I mount the camera on tripod with remote release but WITHOUT the filter. Now switch mode dial to Av mode and select the aperture (DoF) you want. Switch to manual focus and make sure focus is tack sharp. Make the shot. Chimp to check if you like the composition and note the exposure time. Let's say it is 1/10 second.

    Now put the filter on and multiply 1/10 * 1000 = 100 seconds. Switch mode dial to B(ulb), check if aperture and ISO is the same as for the test shot and keep pressing the remote shutter button for 100 seconds. I program my timer remote for these 100 seconds instead.

    check the rim of the filter. It says 1000x somewhere on it, that's all to remember. It's a 10-stop filter which would be 1024x but that number is a bit too nerdy so they opted for 1000x :D


    Thanks Nick I understand exactly what you are saying and I appreciate your kind help.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 18, 2012
    DeVerm wrote: »
    Reading this again, I think there's some miscommunication, so let me explain how I use this filter again:

    First I mount the camera on tripod with remote release but WITHOUT the filter. Now switch mode dial to Av mode and select the aperture (DoF) you want. Switch to manual focus and make sure focus is tack sharp. Make the shot. Chimp to check if you like the composition and note the exposure time. Let's say it is 1/10 second.

    Now put the filter on and multiply 1/10 * 1000 = 100 seconds. Switch mode dial to B(ulb), check if aperture and ISO is the same as for the test shot and keep pressing the remote shutter button for 100 seconds. I program my timer remote for these 100 seconds instead.

    check the rim of the filter. It says 1000x somewhere on it, that's all to remember. It's a 10-stop filter which would be 1024x but that number is a bit too nerdy so they opted for 1000x :D

    I did everything as you said Nick. I took an AV reading of F11 and a shutter speed of 1/160 and then changed to manual with the auto focus switched off. I then put the filter on and changed to Bulb mode and took the shot for 17 secs to find that the image was totally exposed because when I had changed to Bulb mode the aperture changed to F5. Does this always happen when changing to Bulb mode?
    When in Bulb mode I changed it to F11 as the test shot. Did I do right or should I have taken it to F22?
    I also found that when I release the remote shutter button I find the red light continues to flash for ages before the final image is completed. Is this in order?
    Thanks once again.
    Bob
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 20, 2012
    I did everything as Nick said. I took an AV reading of F11 and a shutter speed of 1/160 and then changed to manual with the auto focus switched off. I then put the filter on and changed to Bulb mode and took the shot for 17 secs to find that the image was totally exposed because when I had changed to Bulb mode the aperture changed to F5. Does this always happen when changing to Bulb mode?
    When in Bulb mode I changed it to F11 as the test shot. Did I do right or should I have taken it to F22?
    I also found that when I release the remote shutter button I find the red light continues to flash for ages before the final image is completed. Is this in order?
    Thanks once again.
    Bob
  • DeVermDeVerm Major grins Posts: 405Registered Users Major grins
    edited April 20, 2012
    canon400d wrote: »
    I did everything as Nick said. I took an AV reading of F11 and a shutter speed of 1/160 and then changed to manual with the auto focus switched off. I then put the filter on and changed to Bulb mode and took the shot for 17 secs to find that the image was totally exposed because when I had changed to Bulb mode the aperture changed to F5. Does this always happen when changing to Bulb mode?
    When in Bulb mode I changed it to F11 as the test shot. Did I do right or should I have taken it to F22?
    I also found that when I release the remote shutter button I find the red light continues to flash for ages before the final image is completed. Is this in order?
    Thanks once again.
    Bob

    I think the camera remembers the last aperture setting in bulb mode. It does not "copy" it from Av mode when switching to bulb.

    1000 times 1/160s is not 17s... it's 1000/160 so 6 and a bit seconds deal.gif
    If you did the test shot with f/11 then do the same aperture in bulb mode at 6-7 seconds or go to f/22 and use 12-14s ... as long as the outcome of the formula is 10 stops more exposure.

    How long is "for ages"? I recall some flashing yes but not long at all... but I normally shoot with a 5d2 for landscape.
    ciao!
    Nick.

    my equipment: Canon 5D2, 7D, full list here
    my Smugmug site: here
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Still learnin'still lovin Posts: 18,664Super Moderators moderator
    edited April 20, 2012
    canon400d wrote: »
    ... I also found that when I release the remote shutter button I find the red light continues to flash for ages before the final image is completed. Is this in order?
    ...
    DeVerm wrote: »
    ... How long is "for ages"? I recall some flashing yes but not long at all... but I normally shoot with a 5d2 for landscape.

    If "Long Exposure Noise Reduction" (LENR) is enabled in the camera then a second "black frame" is taken automatically and it is exactly the same duration as the taking exposure. The black frame is inverted to negative values and summed with the taking exposure, effectively cancelling pattern sensor noise.

    If you turn off LENR then there is no second exposure, but you may see the pattern sensor noise. (Of course you may also take a single black frame exposure manually, and then use image processing software to remove the pattern sensor noise in post production.)

    As long as you don't do too many long duration image captures, I suggest just leaving LENR turned on and being patient. It saves a considerable amount of time in post.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 21, 2012
    DeVerm wrote: »
    I think the camera remembers the last aperture setting in bulb mode. It does not "copy" it from Av mode when switching to bulb.

    1000 times 1/160s is not 17s... it's 1000/160 so 6 and a bit seconds deal.gif
    If you did the test shot with f/11 then do the same aperture in bulb mode at 6-7 seconds or go to f/22 and use 12-14s ... as long as the outcome of the formula is 10 stops more exposure.

    How long is "for ages"? I recall some flashing yes but not long at all... but I normally shoot with a 5d2 for landscape.

    Thanks for that Nick I think I am getting the hang of it now. When I release the remote shutter button the flashing red light can go on for as long if not longer than the time I had set for the exposure.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 21, 2012
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    If "Long Exposure Noise Reduction" (LENR) is enabled in the camera then a second "black frame" is taken automatically and it is exactly the same duration as the taking exposure. The black frame is inverted to negative values and summed with the taking exposure, effectively cancelling pattern sensor noise.

    If you turn off LENR then there is no second exposure, but you may see the pattern sensor noise. (Of course you may also take a single black frame exposure manually, and then use image processing software to remove the pattern sensor noise in post production.)

    As long as you don't do too many long duration image captures, I suggest just leaving LENR turned on and being patient. It saves a considerable amount of time in post.

    Thanks for that Ziggy I have done as you have said and left it enabled.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • PepsterPepster Beginner grinner Posts: 1Registered Users Beginner grinner
    edited April 24, 2012
    iphone app for 10 stop filters
    Hi Bob, new member here but a big fan of using 10 stop filters. Apple has an app, ironically called 10 stop, which does the calculation for you on exposure time. However, I find it's usually a bit of trial and error depending on what effect you're going for. Exposing to the right is also a good rule of thumb.

    Cheers,
    Paul
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned User Posts: 2,826Banned Major grins
    edited April 24, 2012
    Pepster wrote: »
    Hi Bob, new member here but a big fan of using 10 stop filters. Apple has an app, ironically called 10 stop, which does the calculation for you on exposure time. However, I find it's usually a bit of trial and error depending on what effect you're going for. Exposing to the right is also a good rule of thumb.

    Cheers,
    Paul

    Thanks for that Paul. I have recently discovered that it was necessary to do the image at different exposures.
    Cheers
    Bob
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