Where are the other four finalists?

CharlesHB4CharlesHB4 Registered Users Posts: 7 Beginner grinner
edited October 19, 2005 in The Dgrin Challenges
Where are the other four finalists?
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Comments

  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 17, 2005
    CharlesHB4 wrote:
    Where are the other four finalists?

    ?
  • CharlesHB4CharlesHB4 Registered Users Posts: 7 Beginner grinner
    edited October 17, 2005
    Aren't there supposed to be 10 finalists?
    When I read your rules before sending my previous message to you, the rules said that the winner must be prepared to selct the 10 finalists. When I clicked on your question mark, the number ten had been removed? Did the rules change? If so when? As of 20 minutes ago the rules said 10 finalists. Now the number 10 is missing? Is it me? My browser? My computer? My ISP? Or did you change the rules within the last 20 minutes?

    Thanks ... no offense meant ... I'm just confused.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 17, 2005
    CharlesHB4 wrote:
    When I read your rules before sending my previous message to you, the rules said that the winner must be prepared to selct the 10 finalists. When I clicked on your question mark, the number ten had been removed? Did the rules change? If so when? As of 20 minutes ago the rules said 10 finalists. Now the number 10 is missing? Is it me? My browser? My computer? My ISP? Or did you change the rules within the last 20 minutes?

    Thanks ... no offense meant ... I'm just confused.

    no worries, up to 10. i clarified the rules. in this case, the co-judge and i both felt that these six were the best of the lot.
  • thegreeneggthegreenegg Registered Users Posts: 551 Major grins
    edited October 17, 2005
    I don't really agree with that. I think there are enough good entries to make 10 for this challenge. I always look at the finalist great but I also think that there are some really good ones that didn't make it that could have gotten my vote if they were there. Same in this case, but with only six choices there is less of a shot of them getting in there for me to vote on them.
    No disrespect intended I just think it works good having 10, more of choice for the voters.
    Ashley
    Green is the way to be!
    ashleyharding.smugmug.com
  • 4labs4labs Registered Users Posts: 2,089 Major grins
    edited October 17, 2005
    Hi Ashley,
    The benefit of winning a challenge is that you get to vote along with Andy on the finalist for the next challenge. For this challenge it was my opinion and Andy agreed that there just weren't 10 photos that wowed us. It is just my opinion and what do I know?. The challenges should be more about improving and having fun with the particular topic and not be taken so seriously. I felt that too many folks just went out looking for dirt
    and in my eye they weren't that creative. Once again it is just my opinion.
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited October 17, 2005
    Oh Kay,

    I did not expect to make the finals as I saw so many of what I thought were good ones go up, but I do agree with Ashley.

    I feel like the rules can be used, they are not rules, they are things to be used to justify deviating from the "rules".

    I also feel insulted!

    And I have not been angry over this challenge before. Before I was hurt. I did not notice the number of finalists, but I did notice that some did not make it that I was very impressed with. Now that I find out why, I am angry.

    Also, I feel like an assumption has been stated on the amt of work I put into the challenge.

    OK............

    ginger (And I know you all have a perfect right to not care how I feel, or if I am angry or not. Just as I have a right to be angry.)

    I was about to post some things I worked on this afternoon and tonight for the next challenge.

    I think I will just post them on Landscape and think on this.

    And whatever Ashley says, I probably agree with her.


    And, for that matter, I am more of an observer than a creative person from the standpoint of thinking things up. That is one reason I don't do still lives.
    I think of myself as an artist, but not as a person who is particularly "creative"...................whatever that means.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Registered Users Posts: 3,165 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Cool thy jets
    No one is entitled to place in the challenges. To get all worked up that there are not a certain amount of finalists just shows an improper view of the challenge.

    In photography, it is often good to mix things up, do things different, get a new perspective on things. And here I believe is a good example of that. The judges, for right or wrong, felt that there were only a certain amount of photos they could honestly recommend. I know this feeling. Having to pick 10 when you feel there are only 6 is totally lame and feels intellectually and artistically dishonest.

    So there are fewer finalist than usual, so what, will that change the results, no, it just means that a small handful of photos wont be taking votes away from the better photos. Now before this gets the nickers in a twist too tightly, consider this...

    There are always better photos. Irregardless of how much time or effort we put into a photo, this does not imbue a photo with value for that challenge. The value is placed on it by the judges (customers, audience, or what have you), and if a judge does not see the value, then for that challenge, it just doesn't have any. Something is only worth what others are willing to pay for it. Gold would be worthless too if no one wanted it.

    Now does that mean the photo *is* worthless and the effort was in vain? Absolutely not! It just means that the photo needs to find another audience or another time. I will illustrate with an example near and dear to me...

    The TV show Firefly was in my opinion one of the best SciFi shows out there. It only lasted a few weeks before being canceled. Does this mean the show was bad, no way, like I said, it was great. But the time and place for it was apparently wrong. Just because it was "voted off the island" doesn't mean it was the worst show on TV, that title goes to the show Andromeda hehehe. It later went on to be made into a movie. You can most likely think of many examples where something failed in one aspect and yet succeded wildly in another (think Sticky Notes, Pop Rocks, or Bill Gates)

    The challenge is for learning, sharing, and growing. If you get so worked up about placing, winning, and rigid rules, you miss the point, and the challenge is really of no benefit to you, you would be better off not participating.

    Remember, you are entitled to nothing at all except to participate and learn to deal with rejection, which in itself is a very valuable skill to learn.
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • DeeDee Registered Users Posts: 2,981 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    My favorite was left out
    4labs wrote:
    Hi Ashley,
    The benefit of winning a challenge is that you get to vote along with Andy on the finalist for the next challenge. For this challenge it was my opinion and Andy agreed that there just weren't 10 photos that wowed us. It is just my opinion and what do I know?. The challenges should be more about improving and having fun with the particular topic and not be taken so seriously. I felt that too many folks just went out looking for dirt
    and in my eye they weren't that creative. Once again it is just my opinion.

    And I thought it was VERY creative, excellently photographed, and a very different take on dirt...

    I'm disappointed not to be able to vote on it.
  • Blue SnapshotsBlue Snapshots Registered Users Posts: 101 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    I'm an "outsider" and a "hack".....
    4labs wrote:
    Hi Ashley,
    The benefit of winning a challenge is that you get to vote along with Andy on the finalist for the next challenge. For this challenge it was my opinion and Andy agreed that there just weren't 10 photos that wowed us. It is just my opinion and what do I know?. The challenges should be more about improving and having fun with the particular topic and not be taken so seriously. I felt that too many folks just went out looking for dirt
    and in my eye they weren't that creative. Once again it is just my opinion.
    ...... so.... you can easily dismiss what I'm about to say.

    I didn't think for one minute that my over-exposed piggy would be picked but I could have quite easily picked 10 entries... and they wouldn't have included a snap or two that I see up yonder.

    My own personal take on these challenges is that it is all about participation. Nothing more. When someone takes the plunge to enter a snaparoo for all of dgrin to see.... they've already "won". To say that you and Andy weren't "wowed" by some 26 or so other entries....is... never mind.rolleyes1.gif

    Everyone learns and grows at their own pace. To dis' the aggregate of the challenge entries by openingly saying that the other 26 (in your opinionrolleyes1.gif ) were crap not only discourages some to learn and grow it cuts off the dgrin challenge at the knees. 4 more entries wouldn't have been that tough to pick and the voting would sort it all out.

    I'll still look for some "nature's colors" snaps but since "wowing" is more important than participation I'll post them over in the landscape thingee.

    Like I said... I'm just an "outsider" and a "hack". You can file this post under "Rants from a Crappy Outsider Photog".

    Peace
    Dan
    My Smugmug Snaps

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera." - Dorothea Lange
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    ...... so.... you can easily dismiss what I'm about to say.

    I didn't think for one minute that my over-exposed piggy would be picked but I could have quite easily picked 10 entries... and they wouldn't have included a snap or two that I see up yonder.

    My own personal take on these challenges is that it is all about participation. Nothing more. When someone takes the plunge to enter a snaparoo for all of dgrin to see.... they've already "won". To say that you and Andy weren't "wowed" by some 26 or so other entries....is... never mind.rolleyes1.gif

    Everyone learns and grows at their own pace. To dis' the aggregate of the challenge entries by openingly saying that the other 26 (in your opinionrolleyes1.gif ) were crap not only discourages some to learn and grow it cuts off the dgrin challenge at the knees. 4 more entries wouldn't have been that tough to pick and the voting would sort it all out.

    I'll still look for some "nature's colors" snaps but since "wowing" is more important than participation I'll post them over in the landscape thingee.

    Like I said... I'm just an "outsider" and a "hack". You can file this post under "Rants from a Crappy Outsider Photog".

    Peace
    Dan
    Oh stop it!!! Nobody said the other entries were "crap" they only said they weren't as good as the 6 finalists. I mean, its only he opinion of two guys. One of them has a rib fetish and the other owns a bunch of dogs. How can you take it seriously.

    I had the misfortune of being a judge for one of these challenges and it sucked (being a judge not the pictures). I would only enter one of these challenges if I had a really sucky picture that wouldn't win. Anything as long as I don't have to be a judge again. :puke1

    I have entered a few challenges and contests. Sometimes I win and most of the time I lose. Big deal!!!!

    The whole idea is to go out take some pictures and hopefully learn and grow from the experience. Winning or being a finalist doesn't mean anything. Somehow some folks keep getting caught up with this stuff.

    I think the challenges should be changed. Lets eliminate the judges. No more finalists and no more winners. Lets just announce the topic and go out and take the pictures. That will eliminate the furor that seems to follow these challenges around in their current format.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Come on Harry. This selection process is high tech science. A great deal of important equipment is used to select the finalists. icon10.gif

    Mike,

    One of those pictures didn't belong on this site so I removed it. Remember this is a 'G' rated site.

    All joking aside, the judging and voting here is about the same as on any other photography site. I truly believe the judges and voters do the best they can and I respect their collective efforts. The finally determination is subjective and one that I seldom agree with. So what.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • Blue SnapshotsBlue Snapshots Registered Users Posts: 101 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Yo! Dude!
    Harryb wrote:
    The whole idea is to go out take some pictures and hopefully learn and grow from the experience. Winning or being a finalist doesn't mean anything.
    But....but.... but... I agree with you. ne_nau.gif

    Sorry if I rocked the boat. This is a kewl place... no denying that. What I read sure sounded like a "crap" reference was being made. I checked it again to make sure it wasn't a lack of sleep or sumtin'...... nope.... sure sounded like the entries were being called "crap" to me. :):

    I do what I do to have fun.... meet lots of interesting people in the real world.... and every so often I actually take a decent snapshot or two. The internets (sic) can be a bit strange at times. Hard to understand. I read what I read and saw what I saw. And what I saw was a tad bit detrimental to the whole participation thingee. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. headscratch.gif :crazy

    Peace
    Dan
    My Smugmug Snaps

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera." - Dorothea Lange
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Sorry if I rocked the boat. This is a kewl place... no denying that. What I read sure sounded like a "crap" reference was being made. I checked it again to make sure it wasn't a lack of sleep or sumtin'...... nope.... sure sounded like the entries were being called "crap" to me. :):

    That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. headscratch.gif :crazy

    Peace
    Dan

    as long as it puts a smile on your face and keeps you warm at night.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • SnapHappySnapHappy Registered Users Posts: 328 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Now I feel some what at blame here for recently raising the subject of voting and how many finalists there are BUT and it's a big one....... can we not just carry the discussion on in another thread like HERE for instance and therefore leave this thread to be what it should be, a big welldone and congratulations clap.gif to the finalist's and to ALL THE OTHERS who entered. It was good to see a few newcomers in this one. :D
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    SnapHappy wrote:
    Now I feel some what at blame here for recently raising the subject of voting and how many finalists there are BUT and it's a big one....... can we not just carry the discussion on in another thread like HERE for instance and therefore leave this thread to be what it should be, a big welldone and congratulations clap.gif to the finalist's and to ALL THE OTHERS who entered. It was good to see a few newcomers in this one. :D
    thumb.gif exactly..what SH said & get over your personal issues guys....its starting to show.

    Congratulations to the finalists.

    Gus
  • 4labs4labs Registered Users Posts: 2,089 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    ...... so.... you can easily dismiss what I'm about to say.

    I didn't think for one minute that my over-exposed piggy would be picked but I could have quite easily picked 10 entries... and they wouldn't have included a snap or two that I see up yonder.

    My own personal take on these challenges is that it is all about participation. Nothing more. When someone takes the plunge to enter a snaparoo for all of dgrin to see.... they've already "won". To say that you and Andy weren't "wowed" by some 26 or so other entries....is... never mind.rolleyes1.gif

    Everyone learns and grows at their own pace. To dis' the aggregate of the challenge entries by openingly saying that the other 26 (in your opinionrolleyes1.gif ) were crap not only discourages some to learn and grow it cuts off the dgrin challenge at the knees. 4 more entries wouldn't have been that tough to pick and the voting would sort it all out.

    I'll still look for some "nature's colors" snaps but since "wowing" is more important than participation I'll post them over in the landscape thingee.

    Like I said... I'm just an "outsider" and a "hack". You can file this post under "Rants from a Crappy Outsider Photog".

    Peace
    Dan
    Dan... it was my turn to judge and wowing was important to "me." I think it is sad if you let my particular tastes influence whether you enter a challenge or not. I am not an art critic. Shay posted once that most important thing is for you to like your own work and not to take photgraphs to please others. My opinion means nothing. I am sorry if I insulted anyone my intention was just to be truthful .

    Ginger you take plenty of photographs that I love and I always tell you such you have no reason to be insulted this time.I am sorry if I did it was not my intention.

    Dee.. I am sorry you are disappointed everyone has different tastes and in this case mine obviosly are different than yours. It doesn't mean I am right . I just didn't think it was necessary to put up 10 finalist if I didn't like 10.
  • devbobodevbobo Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,339 SmugMug Employee
    edited October 18, 2005
    I wasn't going to make any comments, as there's nothing worse than being kicked when you have done what you thought was right, and from experience I know the judging process isn't easy.

    The point I want to make is, there are alot of people here that participate in challenges without every thinking they would win and as people have already said "it's all about participation", but for those who don't dream of winning I believe that making the final '10' would be a big thrill...encourage them to enter more challenges here. But by dropping 4 entries in the finals, you reduce the opportunity to thrill some dgrinners.

    Thanks Andy and Eric for judging thumb.gif

    David
    David Parry
    SmugMug API Developer
    My Photos
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005

    (snarky image removed)

    birdman, if you have some to say, say it. with words.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Come on Harry. This selection process is high tech science. A great deal of important equipment is used to select the finalists.

    (removed more snarky images inferring that judge and host do not take the finalist selection process seriously.)

    birdman, again?

    i tell you what. you have to make a two-year commitment, spend a couple hours a week on it, week in, week out, never missing a deadline to close a challenge, start a vote, or start a new challenge. and be prepared to take potshots constantly on your integrity. you have to deal with the prizes, getting them, securing them, distributing them. you have set up the threads, monitor them. you have to constantly be reviewing the pics, and the critique threads, so that you can steer the challenge back if the group is struggling for ideas.

    if you'd like to press your same issue, you can have a week to think it over.
  • eye-maxeye-max Registered Users Posts: 130 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    learning new-math
    Apparently 4 + 1 = what ever Andy wants it to bene_nau.gif . The rules definitely said 10 then were changed after the fact to match Andy’s calculations.headscratch.gif


    I read all the posts here and all that seems to be happening is "lets protect what was picked". Listening to the participants appears to be secondary.
    Don't get me wrong this is a good place, (not great, yet). It will never be a great place if you continue to recreate the rules to "how you feel that day". The count should have remained at 10 for this challenge and changed to 5 for challenge 50, if you really felt that 5 were necessary.



    All things considered you do a decent job here Andythumb.gif . Don’t trip now.

    max
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    I am worked up over the assumption that I did not put the time, thought and energy into this challenge that I should have.

    It is written right there. I never said I "should" have made the finals. I thought I would when I first did the shot, worked it up different ways, really tried. But then better entries than mine came in.
    I knew I would not make the finals, or I would not have picked me over others.

    But the inference that I didn't try......................

    I put as much time into that entry as I put into my winning shots.

    I think, Shay, you are missing at least one of the points. It is not the "fact" I am angry about, it is the "reason" and the "explanation".

    Yes, things will change for me, here. They already have.
    That is my loss, no one else will care, I have seen that happen over and over, I feel sick about it. But at the same time, I cannot feel the same as I did. Not with the assumptions that are made. About me, and the others, too.

    OK, I lack creativity in general, too. And the usage of the "rules", that is unsupportable, IMO. The rules are important when thought to be. How many times has someone written that we should read the rules. The "rules", they are the reason photos have been removed. I know that in olden times it was said that there were not enough entries to justify 10 picks. I have tried hard, and consistently, to keep the entries up. If not for me, then for others who have all tried hard and deserve to be a finalist.

    I guess that mattered not.


    ginger (I have not complained about this process since it was changed to the format the challenge is now in. This is not an "old" issue with me. This is new. And the insult and the hurt to others, well, I think it was unnecessary.)

    I have, I repeat, with the except of maybe one challenge, I have participated in every one since I started doing it over a year ago. I have had my feelings hurt, I have continued to participate..........

    This is a new one to me, sorry it happened. I am the one I am hurting by being upset, but I feel what I feel, think what I think. I am expressing it, as some of you who do not enter the challenges, or do, might express their feelings/thoughts in other arenas.

    Yes, Andy, I know what it takes. I also know that you must get some satisfaction from this thankless job or you wouldn't do it. I stood up strongly for you in the last "rant" thing.

    This is totally different. And I think it was a huge mistake. I could make comparisions to other things, not here, but I won't. Huge mistakes are made all the time, it is often in the explanations and the coverups that things get much worse.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    what's all the hubbub, bubs?
    sigh.

    if you read the rules, i've said from the beginning of challenge time (see rule 5) i will be host for the contests. as host, my decision on submissions, voting, and any irregularities, will be final. it was clear, to both 4labs and myself, that there would not be ten finalists - and we carefully worked it out between us. this is not a willy-nilly decision process, and to those of you who insist on mocking me, and the process, you are sadly mistaken and i'll brook no more insinuation of such.

    i spend a lot of time on the challenges, as the fortnight progresses. here are my final notes on the shots that didn't make it. these comments are real, genuine, and with much forethought. i hope that everyone takes these suggestions to heart, for what they are worth, constructive criticism.

    please remember that the challenges are all about learning and growing as photographers, with a friendly spirit of competition. i run them on my own free time, and i do not get paid to do this. i do it for my love of photography.

    some of you are making it very hard for me to keep doing this.

    seamus - he said it all in his entry :D

    wizard - technically needs exposure help. compositionally, i'm struggling for a focal point - the big items in the front stopo me from appreciating the rest of the photograph

    blue snapshots - the half-pig is interesting, certainly dirty. but there's nothing challenging about this shot. i can't even see the swine's face. blue, it's all about faces with animals, okay?

    jackie paper - dirty, yes. artistic? no. you took it from eye level, next time, get on your knees, try a different perspective or angle, to make an otherwise boring shot more appealing.

    roger - excellent idea, execution would have been better if the background had been in focus more, and something happening out there that i juuuuuuuust had to imagine what it was. maybe a bicyclist. maybe rain. as shot, it's abstracty. could also use some more technical work, it needs contrast and color bumping to enrichen the photograph.

    stef - cute.

    jamism - dark, not enough details. technically not well lit or sharp. not engaging. yes, dirty. if you're giving me a close up, make it pop, make it engaging, make it exciting, make me go WOW!

    pash - i love bws. not this one. the shot is oof, first of all. the composition is central, which isn't always bad, but in this case, is. the sky is bland and boring. the barn is there, but it competes too much with the main subject.

    ginger - i'm lost. it's dirty, yes. the expression is good on the man. there's not enough of the scene shown for me to understand what he's doing though, so i'm confused. you've got to give your viewers enough for them to make out "the rest of the story."

    digital gopher - it could be a wad of dirt for all i know. and it looks contrived. artistically it doesn't appeal, and though while dirty, it wasn't chosen.

    lord vet - very abstracty macro, but i'm not getting the overall dirty feeling. i know it's dirty, but it's not doing it for me.

    galla47 - the grafitti is lost in the night shot - bright light is definitely distracting. compositionally, too many competing elements.
    the white balance is off, too orange. there's a thread in the hall of wisdom about "nightshot post processing" take a look at it. love the chrysler building in the background :D

    rsi1986 - ditry yes, the compo is boring though, and doesn't hit me in the face. can't really notice the smoke, either, andthat should figure prominently.

    gary glass - yup, icky dirty, and timely. but the comp is plain. and i can't make out jack's squashed face, which could have been used as the hook.

    mayndi - perspective! get on your knees, bend down, try a different angle. yep, it's dirty but give me a different look at something ordinary like this in order to have it succeed artistically.

    scott- a good laugh but not very artistic is it. nice color and i like the footprint in it. toss in a person, with a sad face, shaking their shoes off, and you've got something!

    skufuku - a nice setup it is, technically well done. the flowers in the bg imo should be the *entire* bg, as they are they compete for my attention. if you're going to try a pun, you have to really floor the viewer with it. the nice diagonal lines of the tabletop are countered with a plain central compo.

    eqiuess - ok a horses hoof is dirty :D

    vandana - compo is plain, it's on theme for sure - but give some thing more interesting when we're in the bedroom, please :D break out the victoria's secret stuff, and show me the morning after a wild night mabye lol3.gif

    hessia - again, the perspective thing. get on the street level for some drama! deal.gif

    risource - dirty puddle. nothing overly exciting.

    fotonut - too much hog, not enough surroundings.

    imax - needs interest.

    snaphappy - converging lines and mud is good, but i'm detracted by the angle of the view. it's too "birds-eye' wish i was closer. this almost made it.

    amadeus - dark. confusing. not engaging.

    cswinton - i think the idea is very good. technically, the shot suffers from the horizontal (power?) line imo - and, i think it would be better from a step back.

    bfjr - trash on the seaside - not to difficult - not challenging enough, compositionally it's challenged and i'm not engaged with this photo.

    marks - i either want to be closer, or further. the background, detracts - watch those backgrounds! look at the top middle fo the tallest mushroom, the tree edge is just like a telephone pole sticking out of uncle ernie's head. lovely colors.

    birdman photographer - the lighting is a bit off, as is the composition. a clever idea, that could have been made even better with more interesting food dirt, a diagonal swath of light cast in the sink, a little lower perspective...

    gina - perspective perspective perspecive

    eye-max - a very nice view, technically it's almost great - i think the shot needs some more "punch" to keep me going. it would have made it to the finals with a person in it - not always easy, sometimes you don't have a partner or willing subject, but that's what tripods and timers are for naughty.gif

    winger - oh if this had been shot in the "mud-bowl" it would have been picked! i feel "wet" rather than totally "dirty" when viewing it. technically, a fine action sports shot.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    ginger_55 wrote:

    it is often in the explanations and the coverups that things get much worse.

    coverups? whoo-hooo, "challenge-gate" lol3.gif bring it on, where are woodward and bernstein?

    crimony, ginger, you are a fine lady, and a wonderful contributor here but you're on thin ice here. i suggest you take a break from this and go shoot some photographs, you are taking this way too seriously.
  • SnapHappySnapHappy Registered Users Posts: 328 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Well I thought this thread was just going to be a continuation of applause for the finalist's but not to be...rolleyes1.gif.
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,654 moderator
    edited October 18, 2005
    I want to congratulate Shakey for his entry and his awesome return to dgrin! thumb.gif
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,154 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    ..which make me wonder if you truly select the finalists based on their work..and the photos merit/qualities.

    Regards,

    Mike

    if you can't see my my evaluation methods in my post above, then i'm sorry i cannot help you. i do thank you for using words to tell us how you feel, i appreciate it. frankly, i am insulted by what you've said, very much.

    tell you what - would you like to run the challenges? ear.gif
  • Lord VetinariLord Vetinari Registered Users Posts: 15,835 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Come on Lighten up
    Well I'd like to thank Andy and previous winners for all the hard work they put inclap.gifclap.gifclap.gif .
    Come-on you lot stop moaning and get on with taking photographs.
    It's a hard job judging these things especially when you know someone is going to disagree. So let's appreciate the job that's being done here instead of moaning- PLEASE!
    If you carry on like this, the easiest decision will be not to run the competition.
    Brian V.
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Registered Users Posts: 3,165 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    Lets say the challenge is not the challenge, but instead a prospective customer who is trying to decide between your work and a handful of other photographers. I use this analogy because I see it everyday in the work I do and how similar it mirrors what goes on in the challenges.

    That prospective customer is far more fickle and not nearly as analytical as the judging in forum here. You could be showing them the most incredible photo, but they don't personally like the color of the shoes the subject in the photo is wearing, so they dump you like a rock, and you find out that they went with another photographers work (who you believe to be inferior to yourself) because that photographers work showed the proper color shoe in their work.

    Now, you could get all upset and say that it was only the color of the shoe, and you can shoot any color shoe. But you would be missing the point. People buy what they see, and if they don't see what they are looking for, they move on to other work that will.

    There is no point in calling up the lost customer to complain that they made the wrong decision, that they way they chose their photographer was unfair, or to try and convince that that because you put so much work and effort into the photos you showed them that you deserve and maybe even demand that you be chosen. They will most likely hang the phone up on you, glad that they didn't pick you and maybe even logging the caller id number so they don't have to take another call from you in the future.

    You see, that scenario just doesn't work. If the customer, for whatever vaporous reason chooses someone else's work over yours, that is their decision, and it is up to you to be big enough to handle that kind of daily rejection. Re-channel your efforts to find customers that will choose your work, or find ways to work that will appeal to the customers that surround you.

    The responsibility lies with you, the photographer, not the customers (or judges) to produce work that appeals enough to be chosen. If it is not being chosen, it is no ones fault but your own. The sooner that is learned, the sooner real photographic progress can be made.
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • MitchellMitchell Registered Users Posts: 3,503 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2005
    I agree with Brian on this one. If this starts getting personal (Mike), then the next step is to discontinue the challenge completely. Does Andy need to put up with this crap?

    I for one applaud the integrity of the judges for choosing only the pics they did. From my perspective, only three of the entries were worthy of being in the finals.

    Let's get over this and move on to the voting and the next challenge.
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