HS Basketball W/flash

Kikoprice · January 9, 2013

I thought I would post a few of my recent basketball shots for some C&C. Im shooting a 7D with a 70-200, 2 580EX's tripped by FlexTT5's, and a Mini TT1 on top of the 7D. The 580's are mounted on magic arms and have Pixel power packs attached.

Every gym is different, but it seems that every offical will stand right in front of my spot at the baseline just outside of the lane. So rather then taking butt shots all night, Ive moved to the outside right hand corner of the baseline. Im not totally sold on that position. I mount my lights somewhere over each shoulder as high as I can go and wherever I can find a secure mounting location.

Any feed back is appreciated.

Thanks, Frank

#1

#2

#3

#4

EphTwoEight · January 9, 2013

They look really good and clean! That 3rd one looks as if he's playing volleyball with it, but I like how clear and sharp their eyes are.

MDalby · January 11, 2013

Frank,

I really like this set. Nice work.

A little trick that I have learned from experience. Before each game I go to the refs and give them my business card. I tell them where I will be sitting and shooting the game. I then tell them that I also shoot complimentary shots for the refs and if they will send me an email after the game, I will send them a link to the shots. I have found that the refs will be looking for me during the game and trying to accommodate my shooting. It is a little tax to pay but it works.

Kikoprice · January 11, 2013

Thanks, between you, JimK, and JohnG, I think I'm starting to understand more about using flash and the balancing act with ambient light.

Framing ok?

The advice about the refs is great. I'll give that a try.

Frank

Hungry · January 11, 2013

flash basketball
I like #3 best.

are you pointing the flashes at the court (vs. bouncing off the ceiling)? the shadows look like you are.

I am using studio strobes bounced off the ceiling - but I don't think I would get enough power to do that with remote flash units.

And, are you inhibited by the flash sync speed? many hoops photogs shoot at 1/500 or more (and my sync speed is 1/250).

in spite of the shadows, they are sharp.

Hungry · January 11, 2013

frank - I see you are in San Diego - me too.

is that Monte Vista in the visiting uniforms?

Kikoprice · January 11, 2013

#1-3# is Helix vs Olympian {Chula Vista}

#4 is Granite Hills vs El Paso Parkland

Flashes are pointed at the court, location depends on the gym and how its set up on that day. Sync speed has not been a factor. My son who also shot was using the 300 and was only able to get F2.8 SS640 @ISO6400 using ambient only.

Lets see a few of your shots...

JimKarczewski · January 11, 2013

My biggest issue with shooting lately is flash power.. I've been using Pixel power packs. Noticed the other day a clip came off one of the battery trays which explains why one side (it's 2 circuits, 4 batteries each) was dead and the other fully charged after a game. Thankfully I had extra trays so problem fixed. But even shooting at 1/8 power I'm getting dropouts and I have to think it's the triggers, so I'm going to go PW3's all the way, and try to get my Multimax fixed (only receives and just beeps forever when try to put in transmit mode) so I can use the full 32 channels. There is also a new Lithium Ion battery pack out I want to try, but at $175 (even though it powers 2 lights) it's going to be a while before I can get them for all my lights and not sure it will be in time to use this season unless I get back in the good graces with my boss at the paper... Who knows. Hopefully I will and a lot of my problems will be solved.

Then again, I've gone from shooting 1-2 frames at a time to bursting sometimes up to 8 frames with my 1Dx throttled back to 6fps. I know the PW3 will support 14.5fps, so maybe I'll up it to 8 when I get those lithium packs, but still.. power kills me. That or I'm going to try an AC based power pack. They only run about $130... Too many options.. AC would be less flexible requiring power outlets.. Lithium Ion would save me having to charge 48 batteries every night....

Kikoprice · January 12, 2013

Jim have you tried Eneloop rechargeables? Costco has a 20 pack. They seem to recover faster then the Powerex rechargeables I had been using. The only issue Ive ever had with the FlexTT5's is when I dont have the noise blocking sock over the 580EX's. I wonder if you could be having the same issue? Thank you again for the advice you've given over the years.

Here are a few more from tonight,

JimKarczewski · January 12, 2013

Frank-

I'm using the Eneloop XX's (Link) I seriously don't know if it's my triggering or my batteries. At home in a controlled environment, I can do 1/8 power all day long with no problems. Get in the field and I'm screwed. I know Mark bought Multimax's, just wondering if I can use the nice tools (like signal disturbance by channel with 1 MM and 1 PW3) if so, I think that will help. Also in the past I've been using a PC->hotshoe adapter and found connecting to the 580EXII PC to be more accurate. Which I find strange, but I'm not going to complain.

I think I may rent a couple of MM's for a game an see what my signals look like and see if it's the triggering or the power. Just wish someone rented these Godox Lithium Power packs so I could try them before I buy or this little gadget whcih runs off 120 120 to flash adapter

ian408 · January 13, 2013

Something to watch with battery packs and A/C adapters is the number of consecutive flashes you fire. Especially at higher power. Batteries packs and A/C adapters allow the flash to recycle faster and that can cause overheating. Some flashes have circuitry to prevent that (by slowing the recycle time). However some don't and you risk ruining the flash.

JimKarczewski · January 13, 2013

at 1/8th power I haven't hit the thermal load of a 580EXII yet... Maybe 1/4 power I might but I rarely have to use that much power...

ian408 · January 13, 2013

At 1/8, it's not likely you ever would-maybe you would-but FPS and buffering allow you to cool down

There have been a few cases of melted flash that I've seen though mostly from higher power settings.

Hungry · January 14, 2013

w/ flash

Kikoprice wrote: »

#1-3# is Helix vs Olympian {Chula Vista}

#4 is Granite Hills vs El Paso Parkland

Flashes are pointed at the court, location depends on the gym and how its set up on that day. Sync speed has not been a factor. My son who also shot was using the 300 and was only able to get F2.8 SS640 @ISO6400 using ambient only.

Lets see a few of your shots...

here are shots from Horizon's last home game (CIF playoff vs Calipatria) from last season.
http://newday.smugmug.com/PantherSports2011-12/Panthers-Basketball/Rnd-1-vs-Calipatria-22112/21583392_sdGndw#!i=1721185236&k=6NWjbRF
I closed all of the gallleries from last year - but reopened this one just for you.

Kikoprice · January 14, 2013

Your shooting with a D3S, have you tried just shooting ambient with a high ISO and some noise reduction? Your D3S is really clean even at high ISO's. Nice shots.

Hungry · January 14, 2013

Yes - the d3s is really a nice camera. I have tried shooting straight ambient - but there are so many shadows and hot spots with the lighting in this gym (particularly when the guys are not looking up). But, if I can get a really clean shot at iso 800 and an einstein - then I can enlarge them without concern. Actually, as I recall, the playoff shots were done with two einsteins - one on each side of one basket. I shoot defense in the first half and offense in the second - and fight for positioning with the cheerleaders in both halves (lol). Often, I will put a piece of paper as a 'shade' on the lower side of the reflector on the einstein.

But, my point was trying to avoid harsh shadows from shooting direct. I have not had a coach or official object to this approach in the 5 or 6 years I have been doing it (all bounce, but not all einstein) except for a close playoff game (away) when I was shooting a game and some parents were shooting direct with flash from the stands and the announcer asked that no flash be used for the remaining minutes. While he may not have meant me, I shut down and complied - but didn't really miss anything. So, my thought is that not only do i not want to confront anyone about flash (though again, most people never notice it), but I don't want the shadows - and, I have figured out how to do it and it works.

Frank - it is probably a long shot, but let me know if you are interested in trying this system. It is super portable with the battery pack and with the flex controls it is plug and play on the camera. I do try to arrive early particularly at an away game, so the locals can see what I have and what it does during warmups. Frank - what is your 'home school'? Is it Helix? or a gypsy?
Dan

Kikoprice · January 16, 2013

Thanks for the offer Dan. I cover all of East County, so they are all my home schools lol. Ive never had anyone complain about using flash during games, right up to district championships. Most of the schools are just happy we are covering it.

JimKarczewski · January 16, 2013

There is a huge difference in natural light and flash, 2 completely different looks. If natural light was ok, then why do all the major magazines spend time going up into the rafters to put lights up? Because the flash lit pictures look better. You can use lower ISO (I don't care if you use a 1Dx or a D4) High ISO still looks like High ISO. Max I shoot basketball with is 640, typically it's 320.

I do believe I've found one of my issues, CABLES! I had issues with one light last night not firing, went up to it, fired off 10 shots quickly with the test button on the back of the flash, no issues. Hit the PW test button and it was random. Replaced the cable and was good for the remainder of the night. I think I'm going to get my meter out and check continuity and resistance on all my cables....

Kikoprice · January 16, 2013

3rd different look, bounced flash. Im still partial to direct flash.

Cables...it figures right? I can hear myself saying, "check the simplest things first" and then not following my own advice.

Hungry · January 17, 2013

I tried bouncing off the wall beyond the hoop (about 10-12' behind in this gym) though it was an off color. The Einstein was placed on a light stand that was bungied to the end rail of the bleachers (which is a few feet behind the backboard). Result was that the shots under the hoop were great (even brighter than off the ceiling), but there was a fast falloff even at the top of the key.

JimKarczewski · January 19, 2013

So Maybe it wasn't the cables. I picked up a Multimax (a brand new one) so I have one new and one old (without the USB) and I also picked up a TT5 which I couldn't pass up for $129 and it was still wrapped in plastic! So I used the TT5 to transmit, MMax for left and right lights and a PW3 for the kicker light I use.. and had practically NO problems (just flash refresh times later because I shot a double header.)

I do like the noise sniffer feature in the new Multimax.. That will help a LOT determining issues. However, I'll always need to take my laptop with me because the TT5 doesn't have any channel selections on it, it's just C1 and C2 and you have to set it up in software first before using. So if I go to a game with it set to channel 1 and 4 say, like I did tonight and find that channel 22 has the least noise, I have to plug it in, change one of the settings to Channel 22 and then fire away.

Now I just need to load up on PW3's so I can start using the Speedcycler on the multimax. Allows you to go through the groups ABCD or whatever combination you want, so I could really, if I wanted to set up 4 flashes on each side, shoot full power at 10fps. On top of that I guess you can use it in combination with the Hypersync of the TT5 (you have to put a multimax on top of the TT5) so if you can get say 1/800th with Hypersync you can do it and speedcycle with the Multimax. Pretty interesting possibilities opening up!!

patcad · January 26, 2013

San Diego here too, but I'm having refs tell me "no flash!, against CIF rules"

JimKarczewski · January 27, 2013

patcad wrote: »

San Diego here too, but I'm having refs tell me "no flash!, against CIF rules"

Well, this just proves to me they have no clue what they are talking about???? This is from their Media Policies document:

Flash Photography: The use of electronic flash equipment, other than strobe flash, is prohibited at indoor CIF Los Angeles Section Championship events including volleyball and basketball.

Do they think we're going to come out with the old powder fired flashes? Seriously. So from reading that, I would take a copy of the CIF rules with you... and HIGHLIGHT that section. Unfortunately it says nothing about non-Section Championships

JimKarczewski · January 27, 2013

Looking at the CIF Rules ( I was looking at the CIF-LA Rules) Seems like the deem it OK during regional and state.. but say NOTHING about remainder of the year. Which leads me to this question... What happens if a team gets to state or Regionals and they get completely freaked out by the lights. If they are used during the season... they would understand it.. Politics.. Blah.. From the rulebook of CIF:

Use of flash equipment and strobe lighting is permitted at all Regional and State Championships,
provided the use of such equipment does not interfere with or disrupt any action or administration of the
event. It is the authority of the CIF to determine if flash equipment is interfering or disrupting play at the
Regional and State Championships. Media intending to use flash and strobe equipment should meet with
officials and tournament managers prior to event contests to avoid potential problems.

HS Basketball W/flash

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