So it had to happen eventually lol

divamum · December 15, 2012

I knew it would finally happen. I've had an enquiry from a former headshot client, now about to get married.

My inclination is to say NO and simply point her to real wedding shooters (and anybody in the MD/DC/NoVa area who might be interested in being referred, link me to your portfolio and I'll pass it on - she's looking in the "budget" range, I believe, but I don't know what that means in $ terms).

However, I'm curious if my dgrin colleagues think I'd be CAPABLE of shooting a wedding. Again, I reiterate that I don't think I'm going to do it (I'm very busy with other things around the date and I just do NOT want to deal with all the contracting, stage management and other stuff that goes along with shooting a wedding), but given that you all here know me best photographically, I thought I'd ask and see what kinds of reactions I'd get. I shoot with a 5dII, 7d, 24-70 2.8, 70-20 4.0 and a bunch of fast primes + speedlights.

Just curious. I figured it would make for amusing discussion if nothing else

michswiss · December 15, 2012

I think you should help to find an experienced wedding shooter to take the lead, but you should also definitely be there as the second shooter. It would be good experience and help build your confidence for future opportunities.

novicesnapper · December 16, 2012

she's looking in the "budget" range

You're first alarm bell. If I went to shoot the wedding, I would go as an independent second shooter if you felt inclined, with whatever arraignment you and her feel comfortable with, probono, a gift, for experience, or whatever. Let the paid one, have the prime shots of course, but I wouldn't affiliate myself with the paid photographer. If they hose the wedding, she will be rather unhappy with you, in that case. She knows you.

Personally, a wedding is one of the most emotional, stressful days in a couples life, and moods can swing wildly, from alot of the participants, and I have no desire to be a part of that. They would have to hand me a check, with a whole lot of zeros on it, before I would even entertain the thought.

Amusing, definitely.

Eta to add, I have wedding experience. I have video-graphed two weddings, and shot another as a freelancer. And yes, I watched a primary shooter totally hose the wedding shoot. And I mean totally. I thought the bride was going to beat him down when he presented. And she was bigger than him lol.

Mitchell · December 16, 2012

You're too much of a perfectionist and too hard on yourself to take this on as a "budget" photographer.

I think you have the skills, but do you have the lighting and equipment to do this to your standards? It will be very stressful and time consuming.

michaelglenn · December 16, 2012

You're definitely capable of shooting a wedding!

However, I wouldn't jump into shooting as a primary until you gain more experience. The best thing to do, IMO, is to start out as a second shooter. Understand the whole wedding process, how the events play out, etc. That will give you insight and confidence into eventually shooting a wedding as a primary.

If you can find a seasoned photographer you know, totally hop on that. It will be a great experience for you. If you do a good job, that photographer will consider using you again as a second shooter. Networking with seasoned wedding photographers = more experience + more business.

Although, like everyone else said, if she is looking for a "budget" photographer, she will get what she pays for. I would refer her to people you know will do a good job, regardless of price.

Mitchell · December 16, 2012

I'll shoot weddings and Bar Mitzvahs, but only when they take place in my own temple. I'm a control freak! I've got that place down and know all the lighting and angles. I charge good money which scares away some potential clients. For me, shooting at an unknown venue would add a layer of stress and angst which I don't really need.

divamum · December 16, 2012

Hehehe. Mitchell I'm laughing at "perfectionist" - so totally NOT (although I do have standards I won't sink below - well, at least not publicly lol - and do always seek to improve from the time before....

). Control freak, maybe... perfectionist - never

It's not wedding *shooting* that turns me off - I love to play with pretty-pretty-princess pictures, and shooting theatre is fast and low light, so that aspect doesn't scare me as long as I have fast glass (which I do). But all the CYA management that goes along with it makes my heart sink, as well as knowing the negatives that a highly-charged emotional situation can engender. I just don't want to have to deal with that much angst when I can't control the situation to try and keep it running smoothly. Then I think about all the pretty pictures I could take and do think it would be fun to jump in just once or twice to see what I could deliver....

I should emphasise, too, this gal isn't a friend, just a former client. I WOULD consider doing a wedding for a friend - both of the engagement shoots I've done were as a wedding gift for friends, in fact - but not this context. I would also (maybe) consider shooting as a second to help out a photographer friend/colleague, but then I'd probably be frustated that I'd have to turn over the shots unedited. I feel like a lot of what I do is in my editing (not so much damage repair, as when I take a picture I already usually know what I want to see after processing/editing) and it would be hard to pass them on without doing any of that first!!!

As I said, have no plans to do this one as primary or a second - I've asked for her budget and said I'll snif around to see if I can recommend anybody, buthat's it. This is a genuine, not-loaded hypothetical question!

Blurmore · December 17, 2012

I think you could do it Diva. I think you are the type of person/shooter that has to have a plan, and wants to scope everything out. I think the biggest issue with a "good" photographer taking on a wedding is the time involved. You have to be quick. Sometimes I don't realize how quick I am, occasionally I'm too quick, with people looking at me like...what now? and I'm like oh, well I got what I need. Those things, knowing "what you need" and when you have it, when to quit, when to do it over, are all things that take a long time to get comfortable with. 2 of my best weddings of the year, couples I "clicked" with the most, were "budget" weddings. If it is a low key gig, with a laid back bride and groom, and no crazy time constraints, go for it.

nak · December 17, 2012

From here it seems to me that you could be a second shooter. A 5d2 behind a 135 f/2.0L is really sweet for shooting candids.

cmason · December 17, 2012

Reply with a 'non-budget' price for the shoot and images, that would be enough to convince you to do it. Then practice at a few local weddings to brush up if she bites.

Qarik · December 17, 2012

I think you COULD pull it off if things went well knowing your personality and skill level. I think IF you can get an experienced 2nd shooter (as a favor type of thing) then you should go for it. This is all assuming your client knows what to expect and that you know that client at some personal level and all that.

divamum · December 17, 2012

Thanks for chiming in guys! At ~$800-1000 her budget is way below most of the people I would recommend (eg you, Blur - you're always the first person I mention when I'm asked about people in this area) - as well as less than I would consider acceptable for that much work - but I gather she has a friend of a friend who's willing to do it for her. I'll throw her a few pointers about signing contracts and asking about redundancy gear, and leave it at that.

I do think I would enjoy second-ing for somebody whose work I really enjoy and whose style I would fit, but other than that, weddings just aren't what I *want* to shoot (as opposed to what I think I could "pull off"). I love looking at wedding shots, I enjoy incorporating elements of wedding style into my own work, I've enjoyed the engagement shoots I've done (way easier, I suspect, since it's really just a kind of portrait shoot rather than an event), but I just don't feel the need to put myself through wedding stress (and potential wedding party angst)!!

divamum · December 18, 2012

Those things, knowing "what you need" and when you have it, when to quit, when to do it over, are all things that take a long time to get comfortable with.

I think this sentence is the single best description of "experience" I've ever read

Matthew Saville · December 19, 2012

To answer your question, you could easily pull it off. Your work and gear speak for itself, and with the advice we've given here on Darin over the years I'm sure you wouldn't make any big mistakes. But you're right, it's hard to deal with such a budget when you have so much else going on.

So for future reference if people throw out those types of numbers and you DO wish you could take the job, just be that honest with her / them, and explain that you have a lot on your plate right now and weddings aren't your main priority in business, so you couldn't make time for it for any less than $1500-$2500; whatever you feel would make you happy to take the job and also light a little fire under you to "rise to the occasion"...

:-)

=Matt=

lifeinfocus · December 19, 2012

I did one for a friend last Summer and likely won't do it again. I spent a lot of time researching and preparing for it, putting a checklist together, practicing on site, meeting with the people, etc. It turned out well and the people were appreciative, but IMHO (emphasize humble) this type of event needs at least one experienced wedding shooter. (And as a side note, I am getting older and it takes a lot of energy.)
Phil

divamum · December 19, 2012

Thanks guys.

Matt, given that you're extremely honest with folks on this subject and usually talk people OUT of it, I'll take your faith in me as a huge compliment! Thanks

Lifeinfocus, I will admit that I regularly lurk in the wedding forum here just because I love looking at all the "pretties" and like to keep up with styles and trends; in the course of readin gI 've gotten the clear message that weddings are TONS of work. I know how long it takes me to edit and process my headshots and portrait sessions, and I suspect I'd shoot at least 3x as much at a wedding; there would be a lot of time involved after the fact as well a during. I'd be willing to offer up that kind of investment of time for a friend as a gift/favor, but as a straight business transaction I think I'd need to charge more than this gal can spend.

And since this week appears to be "push Diva out of her comfort zone doing all of those shoots she never thought she'd do"... I have to go attempt my first newborn session (this one IS a gift for friend!)

lifeinfocus · December 19, 2012

divamum wrote: »

Thanks guys.

And since this week appears to be "push Diva out of her comfort zone doing all of those shoots she never thought she'd do"... I have to go attempt my first newborn session (this one IS a gift for friend!)

Look forward to seeing newborn shots if you can post them, because tomorrow our third grandchild is to be born (c-section planned.) and I would like to do some too.

Good luck,
Phil

nak · December 26, 2012

Since this request came from a client, and not a friend, I presume that you won't get an invite as a friend.

Why?

If you get invited to a wedding that you aren't paid to shoot, you might bring a camera (other than the one in your phone). Once you are sure that someone is getting paid to shoot the wedding, why not shoot a few spectator shots? By all means stay out of the way of the pros, and consider leaving the speed light at home. If you aren't standing in the way and you aren't messing with the light using a flash, you aren't creating any issues for the pro while they are shooting. But with a camera in your hand, you will be looking with a photographer's eye at what you see. You'll be able to experience the "I'd have to be standing there to get that shot" along with the mental exercise of lens selection etc. Blend with the crowd; consider a camera strap that doesn't say "5D Mark II" so that you look like all those folks toting a Rebel with a kit lens. Only a sharp eye will note that you aren't using onboard pop-up flash or that the 135mm f/.2.0 isn't a zoom. You have more freedom to shoot at the reception. As a people shooter, a room full of people you know who are dressed to kill and bent on having a good time is the happy hunting ground. They aren't posed and you don't get do-overs, but you won't have to work to get natural expressions.

Before you drive home, sit in your car and write down all of your impressions about getting shots, workload, shooting on the fly, shooting in weird light, positioning, etc. It's the "this is what I'd have to do," and "This is what I'd have to get comfortable with that I'm not comfortable with now," lists.

At home, go over what you shot and pick maybe one shot to give as a gift, say as a 4x6 inch print. People might wonder if you don't have at least one shot that turned out, they saw you with a camera and they know what you do for a living. Retain the rest but don't show them to the couple - you didn't upstage the pro while they were shooting and you don't want to afterwards either. You might easily have the eye and the gear to do this, especially with the candids. If they say something like, "why didn't we hire you?" can can respond by talking about all of the must-have shots that the pro got that you simply didn't get. If pressed you can truthfully say say "didn't have my long zoom, couldn't get that" and "didn't have a flash mounted, didn't get any of those" and "didn't have a tripod, all of those are blurry for me."

Even if the pro is a total jerk, upstaging the pro spoils it for the couple. Let them be as happy as possible with the shots they paid for and over the years will cherish.

I think that you can get an initial taste of part of the action without spoiling it for anyone. If you don't like it, you know and nobody got disappointed. If you do like it, you can start on that journey from "well-behaved Uncle Bob" to "I shoot weddings."

chuckdee1 · January 3, 2013

Like others have stated....find a good lead photog and offer to second shoot. You'll gain some great experience and won't have to stress.

____________________
Chuck Dee - AKA Chris
"My job as a portrait photographer is to seduce, amuse and entertain." - Helmut Newton
www.bellissimofoto.com

Ed911 · January 8, 2013

You only need a lead photographer, if it's going to be a large complicated wedding where you'll be shooting out side of your feel good zone. I've shot a lot of small weddings where all the client wanted was a few pre, post, and wedding pictures, and then some coverage at the reception. Anybody with average photography skills can successfully shoot these weddings.

Sit down and figure out a plan that covers what the client expects and what you want...then execute.

You have to know what the client expects, what you are capable of delivering, and if you are dealing with reasonable people. You also have to know what the officiate will allow...because their attitude and allowances will determine some of what you can deliver as a photographer. If you can answer yes to the above, then you are on your way.

Don't forget to preview the venue...so that you are aware of your shooting environment.

Hope this helps.

sweet caroline · January 10, 2013

I'm late to this thread, but I agree with those who say you are capable of taking beautiful wedding photos. You've got the gear and the technical skills, and you have shot such a variety of people. You are used to the kind of stress involved, I would assume, from your other career. You just aren't quite as confident with photography yet. While other events don't quite compare to the pressure of a wedding, shooting a party can give you practice for the fast paced world of wedding shooting. I shoot very few weddings, but I feel that the fundraising galas and other events I shoot help a little to keep me in practice.

bmoreshooter · February 1, 2013

Perhaps I missed it while reading this thread but what is the date of the wedding? I would be happy to try to work something out but I would need more information. When, where, amount of time needed and what do they want for the budget range they're in. Even if I couldn't shoot it I have some other photographers in Baltimore that have a lot of experience and could work within that budget. If you would like to discuss it more I can pm or email you my contact information. As far as whether or not you can handle it is something only you can answer. You obviously know how to use your cameras and lights but if you have never shot a wedding before there are a lot of things you need to know in order to be at the right place at the right time. I'm sure that if you wanted to go along and shoot a few shots for yourself that shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Every little bit of experience in photography will help you somewhere down the line.

divamum · February 12, 2013

Revisiting this thread, since it's just happened again, but this occasion is a bit different - although I did this gal's headshots, she's actually a friend rather than "only" a former client, so I may consider it on personal grounds.

Going to think about how to proceed. I have somebody in mind who does gorgeous work, even though she no longer actively pursues her wedding photography business, but am wondering if she might be willing to do it with me (so that essentially I'd only have to second shoot!). She could pose/organize/do the stuff I know zip about, and I could shoot/edit. Hmmm.... food for thought.

In any case, glad I started this thread when I did, as it may turn out to be extremely useful!

ETA: Bmore shooter, I managed to miss your post when I replied (more coffee needed, clearly!). I may well be in touch with you if she decides she wants to proceed and there's enough of a budget to make it viable. Thanks for the offer.

bmoreshooter · February 18, 2013

No problem, keep me in your addressbook. If you'd like to stop by sometime my studio is located close to Hopkins Hospital.

divamum · March 5, 2013

bmoreshooter, about to post a request for somebody to join me on this gig - please do send me your details and website info etc! Would love to talk.

bmoreshooter · March 5, 2013

vraspagraphix@comcast.net 410-276-5013

So it had to happen eventually lol

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