Lens options (Not L series) for 70D (UK)

Paul Iddon · August 7, 2013

I'm likely buying the new 70D when it becomes available, but it got me thinking about lens options.

I already have the 50MM f/1.8, the 100mm f/2.8 macro, and a 70-200 L f/4.

So there are options for what to buy...

1) Body only. This means adding a lens of choice up to a budget of £320...

2) With the 18-55 IS STM, which would leave money for a 2nd hand extender for use on the 70-200L...

3) With the 18-135 IS STM, which would be the maximum spend (£1,400)

If I was to add a lens, which would be likely to give the best results regarding IQ, within £320 either new or 2nd hand? This lens would have to offer the option of landscapes, though I'm not a landscaper, so wouldn't need anything less than 18mm at the widest end, either EF, or EF-S would do.

Opinions please?

Paul.

ziggy53 · August 7, 2013

Paul Iddon wrote: »

... If I was to add a lens, which would be likely to give the best results regarding IQ, within £320 either new or 2nd hand? This lens would have to offer the option of landscapes, though I'm not a landscaper, so wouldn't need anything less than 18mm at the widest end, either EF, or EF-S would do. ...

"Landscape photography" is a very broad field of photography and literally encompasses lenses of all focal lengths.

Vista landscapes and scenic landscapes are often what people think of when casually talking about the field of landscapes.

£320 is not a very large budget either and leaves you with some limited selections. Primarily I would recommend either:

A used Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 XR Di-II LD Aspherical [IF]. Not perfect, but very competent and meets your "wouldn't need anything less than 18mm at the widest end" request. Scenic landscapes are viable with this lens.

A used prime lens. Choices run from a used Pentax screwmount or Nikon manual focus "F" mount prime, adapted with an inexpensive adapter, through a Canon prime (although the Pentax screwmount option could possibly gain you 2 - lenses, shopping carefully.)

Use your existing lenses and purchase a panoramic head to be used with a tripod. Employing multiple overlapping stitched images you can achieve any FOV you desire, and the multiple images can greatly increase detail as well.

Thread relating to stitched image photography:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=101529

Results:

http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=990541&postcount=274
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=994328&postcount=293

Be sure to see what Baldy did here:

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1039964&postcount=362
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1039966&postcount=363

divamum · August 7, 2013

Tamron. Tamron. Tamron. It's a GREAT lens for the money and does beautiful landascapes. I'd go for the 17-50 mk I if you can get one (I gather it's sharper than it's IS sibling and you can usually pick it up very well-priced used, at least in the US - I got mine for about $300, so around 200GBP). Would be my own first choice in your scenario.

The other possibility - which might take some searching - would be to look for a private sale on the 24-105is. Yes, it's an L. It was also bundled with the 5dmk3, and there are a TON of them knocking about the private market at very attractive prices (I"ve seen them as low as $700, brand new, on Fred Miranda. YMMV). I don't know what it goes for in the UK - and it might put you a little over budget - but that + the 70-200 + primes is a really nice set of gear that will cover pretty much anything.

The 18-135 isn't an "awful" lens - and imo it's underrated - but it's not as good as the two above; I'd definitely try to find those before plumping for the kit you mention.

pathfinder · August 7, 2013

Listen to the diva, she is definitely giving good advice.

I really like the 24-105 for outdoors casual walk about shooting on a full frame camera.

On a crop body for landscape work, you might look for a used EOS 10-22. Not certain that is within your budget, but a used version might be found, and it is excellent glass.

Howzit · August 7, 2013

Canon EF-S 15-85 IS USM?

Paul Iddon · August 8, 2013

Some interesting options so far, thanks all.

Has anyone used the STM lenses yet?

Paul.

paddler4 · August 8, 2013

I shoot a crop and own the 10-22, and I would not recommend that. It would leave you with a gap from 22 to 50mm, which is a big gap. the 15-85 is a superb walk-around lens on a crop (it's what I use), but it is above your budget. I think I would also lean toward a Tamron 17-50 (non-VC) if I were also in your shoes. It is very sharp and very good bargain. However, I have to add that I don't own one. I do own its larger cousin, the 28-75, and I have been very pleased with it, but I can't recommend that given your interest in landscape and your other lenses. I would not want to do landscape on a crop with no lens shorter than 28 mm, which is close to "normal" on a crop.

puzzledpaul · August 9, 2013

I also bought a 17 - 50 Tamron (non is) for use with a 1.6 crop body (40D) and found it a decent combo... before it got snaffled by older daughter's SO

I'd slightly wonder why you're after a new body, rather than add more glass options to existing for use with your 5D2 ... if you're mainly interested in macro + pondering about landscape (rather than sports or long tele stuff) since neither require red hot AF.

Yes, am aware of the reach difference.

pp

divamum · August 9, 2013

5d2? Didn't realise you had full frame as well. The Tamron is a lousy choice in that case, since it's EF-S only. Instead, I'd look for a well-priced 24-105is that can run on both cameras.............

davev · August 10, 2013

Look for a used Canon 28-105 F3.5-4.5 II

LINK

Every now and then there's one for sale on the Fred Maranda site.

I bought mine new for around $230, used they go for around $130-$150.

I use this lens more than my 24-105 f4.

Paul Iddon · August 10, 2013

Thanks for all your thoughts folks - though I'm still undecided...

Paul.

chrisjohnson · August 10, 2013

Paul, having seen your macro work and the classics on your website, I was surprised you want to buy a budget lens while at the same time buying a 70D at the introduction price. Why would you NOT pick up a 60D and an EFS 17-55 f2.8? I think the 17-55 second hand exceeds your budget while buying 70D so I wonder what is so special about 70D for you? Seems to me the 70D is targeted at improving things for video rather than making dramatic improvements for a great stills photographer - but then this a casual first impression.

I am interested what your thinking is so hope you will throw more light on this...

Paul Iddon · August 10, 2013

chrisjohnson wrote: »

Paul, having seen your macro work and the classics on your website, I was surprised you want to buy a budget lens while at the same time buying a 70D at the introduction price. Why would you NOT pick up a 60D and an EFS 17-55 f2.8? I think the 17-55 second hand exceeds your budget while buying 70D so I wonder what is so special about 70D for you? Seems to me the 70D is targeted at improving things for video rather than making dramatic improvements for a great stills photographer - but then this a casual first impression.

I am interested what your thinking is so hope you will throw more light on this...

The advantages Chris will be, first the improved DoF that a cropped sensor brings and that I can also have a larger subject than the FF allows. Secondly, 19 AF points is a worthwhile improvement over what the 5D Mk2 offers. Add to that the fact they are all cross-type will bring a further improvement in low light too, useful when macro subjects are in shadow area like they often can be. Third, that vari-angle screen will be a great plus for me, as my knees struggle to cope with the awkward positions that macro often finds me, and that's the truth. Sometimes I have to forgo getting some images because I simply cannot get into position to use the viewfinder and not having a moveable screen further restricts this. That I would also be able to use the screen to actually take a photo due to it's touch-screen functions is a boon, and allied further still, the new dual-pixel focus that the 70D has will mean far easier focusing of my subjects with so much more ease.

Already in beta, the 70D exhibits the same IQ qualities as the new 6D full frame camera, which is a real positive too. And with 20 millions pixels, and the high end Digic 5+ CMOS sensor, all this adds up to a real dynamic improvement across so many different areas.

I still however, appreciate the fantastic quality the 5D Mk2 brings me. But I rarely do landscape and the FF lends itself to that genre especially, which means I am not utilising the full frame for so much of what it can do.

A "better than kit" option for a wider lens is therefore a good option giving me something that I can still use should I need to with acceptable quality at not too great expense, allowing me to afford the 70D when the 5D Mk2 is bought.

Does that answer everything? There are some strong arguments for the new camera, but strong arguments for staying full frame of course.

But especially thank you for the complimentary appraisal of my photos, on the website (and maybe elsewhere) which is a real fillip for somebody of my current abilities. There are far superior photographers than I - and maybe one day I may prove myself to better still. And maybe, this new 70D will get me that much closer to being better!

Regards.

Paul.

joshhuntnm · August 10, 2013

I am a huge fan of the 24 - 105. I'd skimp on the body if I had to and get that glass.

puzzledpaul · August 11, 2013

Paul, found myself wondering about this thread whilst listening to today's 'Desert Island Discs', as reference was made to setting goals amongst other things (interesting prog, btw, imo)

I don't know if you have an mpe65 or a set of tubes (I suspect no to first, yes to latter?).
You obviously know your way around the 5Dm2 + 100 combo, and this with a set of tubes (as am sure you're aware) will give you 2:1 ... filling the frame with a slightly smaller subject (18mm) at this mag than 1:1 with a 1.6 crop body (22mm+)

We both know (well) that we can't take every good shot that exists and that there's a whole different way of filling frames in ways that don't have to show every last detail (in macro) rather than a well-composed overall pleasing pic, with a (somewhat) smaller subject in frame + knowing that stacking is more than likely to be involved if maximising dof is a priority - whatever the mag.

You've obviously given a lot of consideration to this as, as post #13 shows - but more / better focus points* are only of use if one of them is where you want your focus to be (assuming focus confirmation in MF mode) ... and I made an LED ring to fit on the front of macro lenses to provide sufficient illumination to work in dull / dark situations.

You have the best idea of where you want to go and as you've obviously got an interest / aptitude / skill /eye for macro, I'd have thought an mpe65 (if not already got) to extend your macro capabilities + a wide angle for your 5D2 would be a similar budget.

Re a tilting screen - I use an anglefinder (a lot) but not much for macro (only when trying for water level shots of boatmen) and wonder about the 'physical disconnect' between eye / viewing medium of a tilt screen for 'serious' stuff ... as it seems to be in a similar vein to ppl using the screens on the backs of PnSs - think it'd be well trying with a friend's similarly equipped cam - if you can.

Much rabbit, I know... but it's come back full circle to 'goals'

pp

* Unsure of layout of 70D AF points ... but if they're still in the same / similar 'Canon diamond', you'll not be getting any different / greater area coverage than the 5D2,methinks ... unlike a 1 series or 5D3 ... so the fact that they may well work better is irelevant if there's not one where you want one.

Paul Iddon · August 11, 2013

This is how the 19 FP's are arranged:

This IQ quote is the tempter too for a crop sensor:

"In Raw mode, the 70D delivers excellent results, which are almost impossible to tell apart from the full-frame 6D in terms of detail reproduction. Noise is effectively nonexistent at ISO 100 and 200 (remember we're showing you results here with ACR's noise reduction set to zero) and only very subtle at ISO 400 and 800, in areas of plain tone. At ISO 1600, speckles of chroma noise begin to obscure the very finest detail in our test scene, but as with the 70D's JPEGs, it is only at ISO 6400 and above that it's really problematic, assuming you're comfortable doing some NR post-capture."

You're right btw, no 65, but imagine the possibilties with one on this 70D...

Paul.

puzzledpaul · August 11, 2013

Paul Iddon wrote: »

You're right btw, no 65, but imagine the possibilties with one on this 70D...

Your usage is obviously different from mine - as I see little advantage over the std diamond - certainly compared with a 1 series layout, if one wants AF coverage (especially servo) closer to the frame's corners.

More points inside the 'virtual diamond', but nowt outside

pp

Brett1000 · August 13, 2013

Paul Iddon wrote: »

The advantages Chris will be, first the improved DoF that a cropped sensor brings and that I can also have a larger subject than the FF allows. Secondly, 19 AF points is a worthwhile improvement over what the 5D Mk2 offers. Add to that the fact they are all cross-type will bring a further improvement in low light too, useful when macro subjects are in shadow area like they often can be. Third, that vari-angle screen will be a great plus for me, as my knees struggle to cope with the awkward positions that macro often finds me, and that's the truth. Sometimes I have to forgo getting some images because I simply cannot get into position to use the viewfinder and not having a moveable screen further restricts this. That I would also be able to use the screen to actually take a photo due to it's touch-screen functions is a boon, and allied further still, the new dual-pixel focus that the 70D has will mean far easier focusing of my subjects with so much more ease.

Already in beta, the 70D exhibits the same IQ qualities as the new 6D full frame camera, which is a real positive too. And with 20 millions pixels, and the high end Digic 5+ CMOS sensor, all this adds up to a real dynamic improvement across so many different areas.

I still however, appreciate the fantastic quality the 5D Mk2 brings me. But I rarely do landscape and the FF lends itself to that genre especially, which means I am not utilising the full frame for so much of what it can do.

A "better than kit" option for a wider lens is therefore a good option giving me something that I can still use should I need to with acceptable quality at not too great expense, allowing me to afford the 70D when the 5D Mk2 is bought.

Does that answer everything? There are some strong arguments for the new camera, but strong arguments for staying full frame of course.

But especially thank you for the complimentary appraisal of my photos, on the website (and maybe elsewhere) which is a real fillip for somebody of my current abilities. There are far superior photographers than I - and maybe one day I may prove myself to better still. And maybe, this new 70D will get me that much closer to being better!

Regards.

Paul.

I agree with some of the others, a "better" standard kit lens for both crop and full frame would be the 24-105

Paul Iddon · August 13, 2013

Cheers all, but the choices are also budget led.

However, I will be getting the kit with the 18-135STM which will serve me well should I delve more into video. It will run alngside my 100mm macro, 70-200L, and my nifty fifty.

Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions, it was all very appreciated.

Regards.
Paul.

Brett1000 · August 15, 2013

Paul Iddon wrote: »

Cheers all, but the choices are also budget led.

However, I will be getting the kit with the 18-135STM which will serve me well should I delve more into video. It will run alngside my 100mm macro, 70-200L, and my nifty fifty.

the newer 18-135 STM is better than the original and with the recently announced 70D would be a good video combination

Paul Iddon · August 15, 2013

I was thinking the same Brett.

Cheers.

Paul.

Lens options (Not L series) for 70D (UK)

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