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What do you do for T&I?
Glort
Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
I have just finished doing my T&I package to send out to local baseball clubs as the season has just started here. I saw some excellent work from shooters in the US, Canada and the UK whom all appear to have taken things further than most shooters here. I imagine there are a lot that are still doing boring arse pics like many here but that will always be the case.
I was interested in what shooters here do for T&I and what they find to be best sellers and what sort of products they offer at what prices.
I have 4 packages ranging from $20 to $40.
The basic package is a 5x7 indv and A4 team shot. Most clubs here want all the names on the team shot which I think is a bit old fashioned but thats what they all want.
The $40 package consists of an A4 team, Individual and 2 more A4 sheets consisting of layouts with a 6x8, 2 5x7's a 6x4 ( I know!) 2 wallets and 12 " sub" wallets.
The sub wallets are just what I squeezed on the sheets to fill up the left over space on the picture packages but are handy in being able to say there are 20 pics in the package.
I also have mag covers for $35 and individual print pricing starting at $15 for a 5x7.
From what I have seen this is a minimal offering compared to what most shooters in the US seem to offer but people don't go for buttons and bookmarks and all the other stuff most people would regard as crap here. I tried trading cards one year and while some people knew what they were, sales were minimal and a complete pain to have orders done.
I am offering the clubs the choice of having the team images straight printed or with a HDR/ detailed effect which I have done before and people were stoked with it. At the start of the day ( as it is) it's irrelevant if I sell them or not, it set my work apart from the other vultures who will also be submitting to the clubs to get the work.
The biggest thing I am really pushing to the clubs is speed and efficiency.
In my intro letter I talk about minimal input from them in getting the job done, that we run on time to a tight 10 Min schedule to get the teams through and we offer a 1 week turnaround on orders.
I also push the fact I use a portable studio in the form of a pop up tent and studio lighting to get studio portrait Quality pics.
There are several companies here working on price and getting high school kids with a camera to shoot for them for $15 an hour. I have lost many deals over the years to these clowns from clubs my own kids were playing for because these companies were cheaper or promised bigger commissions.
I have seen them running 7 teams behind 90 min into the photo day, stop after an hour because the camera batteries went flat and they didn't have spares, fill cards with no extra and other unbelieveable and unprofessional things stop them completing the job.
Does anyone else use a tent or lighting onsite? I have a Gazebo which I hang a sheet of sail cloth on the walls to give me a 9x9 Ft softbox one side and a reflector the other. If it's a dull day I just stick the strobes behind the walls and one in the roof and I have perfect lighting again.
I'm going to try some shots with a portable strobe to get the dramatic look and darken the skies on the individual shots. I should be able to work with that and keep the workflow up once I have it set up.
I love the dramatic and different look that gives but it will be interesting to see if the parents are open to the change of something different or want the pics to look like they did when they had their s done as kids?
Anyway, interested to hear how others do this if anyone else here is actually doing T&I.
I was interested in what shooters here do for T&I and what they find to be best sellers and what sort of products they offer at what prices.
I have 4 packages ranging from $20 to $40.
The basic package is a 5x7 indv and A4 team shot. Most clubs here want all the names on the team shot which I think is a bit old fashioned but thats what they all want.
The $40 package consists of an A4 team, Individual and 2 more A4 sheets consisting of layouts with a 6x8, 2 5x7's a 6x4 ( I know!) 2 wallets and 12 " sub" wallets.
The sub wallets are just what I squeezed on the sheets to fill up the left over space on the picture packages but are handy in being able to say there are 20 pics in the package.
I also have mag covers for $35 and individual print pricing starting at $15 for a 5x7.
From what I have seen this is a minimal offering compared to what most shooters in the US seem to offer but people don't go for buttons and bookmarks and all the other stuff most people would regard as crap here. I tried trading cards one year and while some people knew what they were, sales were minimal and a complete pain to have orders done.
I am offering the clubs the choice of having the team images straight printed or with a HDR/ detailed effect which I have done before and people were stoked with it. At the start of the day ( as it is) it's irrelevant if I sell them or not, it set my work apart from the other vultures who will also be submitting to the clubs to get the work.
The biggest thing I am really pushing to the clubs is speed and efficiency.
In my intro letter I talk about minimal input from them in getting the job done, that we run on time to a tight 10 Min schedule to get the teams through and we offer a 1 week turnaround on orders.
I also push the fact I use a portable studio in the form of a pop up tent and studio lighting to get studio portrait Quality pics.
There are several companies here working on price and getting high school kids with a camera to shoot for them for $15 an hour. I have lost many deals over the years to these clowns from clubs my own kids were playing for because these companies were cheaper or promised bigger commissions.
I have seen them running 7 teams behind 90 min into the photo day, stop after an hour because the camera batteries went flat and they didn't have spares, fill cards with no extra and other unbelieveable and unprofessional things stop them completing the job.
Does anyone else use a tent or lighting onsite? I have a Gazebo which I hang a sheet of sail cloth on the walls to give me a 9x9 Ft softbox one side and a reflector the other. If it's a dull day I just stick the strobes behind the walls and one in the roof and I have perfect lighting again.
I'm going to try some shots with a portable strobe to get the dramatic look and darken the skies on the individual shots. I should be able to work with that and keep the workflow up once I have it set up.
I love the dramatic and different look that gives but it will be interesting to see if the parents are open to the change of something different or want the pics to look like they did when they had their s done as kids?
Anyway, interested to hear how others do this if anyone else here is actually doing T&I.
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Comments
Something I would highly recommend is taking a "silly" team photo in addition to the regular one. The kids love it and a significant number of parents buy them. Some even request them on the memory mate.
I think you're familiar with how I don't do packages, I just do prepaid coupons which allows parents to buy whatever they want at a 20% discount. I offer an 8x10" memory mate, an 8x12" magazine cover, and what I call TeamStar Posters (that's one style, here's another).
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Yeah, That's a really common one here too.
I honestly don't understand why anyone doing this should run late. You set up whatever you need to, bring the kids in take the pics and say thank you, see you next year.
I don't even run late when all the kids aren't there. One year I had 4 Teams standing round waiting for players. I had shot everyone there and when the missing kids arrived I spent 20 sec doing their individual pics, 2 min for the group and off they went. I finished the 5th team who had arrived by then still on time.
To me it's like everything I do, It's all in the prep. I have got to fields literally in the dark on winters mornings ( and it wasn't that bright when the first teams were shot either!) to set up but once I am, I can bang the teams through in 5 Min flat because all you have to do is stand them there, get a smile, couple of hits, go to the group shot and you are done. It takes the coach and managers 3 times at least as long to write the names on the proof pic as it does for me to shoot the kids.
There is always a bank up of managers at our tent but never a backlog of kids. :0)
I think running to time is one of the biggest things here and that's why I'm pushing it this time round.
Teams have games to get to and kids get bored easily so it's important to get them done on time.
Plus the longer you keep them waiting the more annoying little snots many of them become.
In deciding which way I was going to go this season I did spend some time looking at your idea and re reading many of your posts.
In the end I decided to go to the traditional on the day ordering system.
For T&I I have always done well. I offer higher priced packages than most and the extras. I was tossing up over the "memory Mates" ( I call them combo's) as they aren't push button like the rest of the packages but they have been popular in the past so I loaded the price and will offer them. The people who buy will be buying a premium product so I'll be well paid to take my time to do the best I can on the images.
In doing packages I know a lot of parents are looking for the cheapest way out for a variety of reasons.
Buying coupons and ordering through the net is a new concept here and frankly, I not really inclined to go through the education process when I'm perfectly happy with the results I'm getting with what I'm doing now. I also think that most people here on club committees are pretty stodgy and behind the times so I don't want to risk loosing clubs because the 80 Yo president ( yeah, there IS quite a few of them!) makes up her mind that she doesn't like buying things off the net because it's dangerous and they can steal the title to your house off you.
That said, I still think it's a great concept and there are some other markets I'm looking at doing it for where the opportunity will be there to pre sell and promote the pics and system through the organisers website so they know what's going on.
As for the funny photo, I always used to do them for my sons team but for this and my marketing, the opportunity isn't there to sell it. I can't sell team pics with a nice graphic border instead of names now even though I have pushed it before and I know most parents would want the "formal" group. I think most parents here would love to see a Funny group shot taken but very few would actually pay money for one.
If my packages weren't preset and I was doing onsite viewing or online, I'd include one but for my method, It wouldn't really fit.
I am thinking of offering personal Sports shoots where I spend X time with the kid for $X up front and then include some shots with graphic backgrounds and Colleges. I'll take some strobist type lighting for effect and just produce something a cut above what shooters here do. A couple of Stands with a popup green screen would be quick and easy to work with and give lots of scope for the end pics.
I think I'll print up vouchers and include them in the packages for the sports shoot and family portraits as well.
I hope I can get this to fly to meet my expectations.
I'm looking for something a bit more creative atm and I'm a bit inspired by what I have been looking at a lot of the OS guys doing which I can't see anyone doing here. I can shoot summer and winter and there is really no end of potential clients to keep me busy.
Regarding people who just want to spend the minimum, I think this is probably a bigger problem in the beginning of the season. Parents' wallets have just been through the wringer - paying for registration, new cleats, helmet, bat, glove, misc gear/clothing, etc, and they have yet to enjoy the reward for that outlay. Photos at this point can seem like the last straw, and unnecessary. I wonder, if you are able to quickly deliver prints, would it make sense to schedule picture day for the middle of the season? This would give parents some time to forget the pain of the expenses incurred at the beginning of the season, and to get into the enjoyment phase of the season after their kids' team gels and wins some games. At that point, I think parents are more likely to want to commemorate the experience.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
The problem here is right now that our season spans Christmas and I think it goes without saying what post Christmas finances are like for most people!
I think if I can get in before Christmas, that will be ideal. People have got used to putting their hand in their pocket and come to terms with melting the Credit card. Wish there were more Christmases every year!
At the end of the day I think there is always going to be some excuse. With my other work I regularly get excuses about just having had school photos or dance pics or car rego due or whatever. I think if people want pics they will find the $30 and if they don't then they can have just won the lottery and make something up.
I think the real key is to present them with something they will put SOMETHING ELSE off for to buy the pics!
I'm always getting asked If I will be back with the pics again next week ( Oh yes, I'm going to sitaround here again for another 6 days just so I can be here for the 2 people a day that will have another flimsy excuse not to buy then anyway) and loads of " Do you have a card so I can ring you and get the pic later?"
That one really irritates me as I have given out 100's of cards with the details and so far have got zero people get back to me. The legit people are easy to spot though, they ask if they can give you their details and you charge their credit card next week/ month and then send the pics. Have only done that about a dozen times so far but every time I have given them the pics there and then and I haven't been stiffed yet. Pretty much everyone sort of says they don't expect them now and they can wait but that kind of proves their legitimacy to me.
I would like to have a better come back to the " Do you have a card? " Time wasters who propose to call you at some time in the future to get the pics. Mind you, I don't get this with the T&I, but rather the on spec stuff I shoot.
I try them with the take their details now and charge next week but that soon sends them running.
Why they Just can't say "No thanks" and be done with it, I don't know. The other favorite is " I'll have a think about it". I usually ask, what do you need to think about?
I discovered a new, Local sport that is just getting off the ground today but the numbers they have involved already are great. I'll go see the Officialdom and see what I can do with them. Being a small and basicaly Private thing, they may well jump at a kickback for something that requires no effort on their part.
See what happens!
Oh right. Well if the season just started, maybe you can schedule picture day(s) for like 3 weeks from now? You've probably already scheduled them though.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Thank your other vendor cohorts for this! As a major consumer long before ever selling photography, I've been burned by the vendor so many times = never again. Long before the advent of the internet, I've spent thousands of dollars to hear:
1) It will be ready in 10-15 minutes so come back then to go back 15 minutes later and to be told it isn't ready yet to finally return at the end of the day after multiple check-ins, only to be told the item will be sent and then never receive the item or
2) I will wait and charge you later to have my card charged immediately upon leaving the booth or
3) Saying I'll think about it to go back later and pick up the item to be told the item can't be sold to me after all (I'm out, it isn't what you asked for earlier, we only have the demo model here, etc.) or worse, the person doesn't even remember I was at the booth only 1/2 hour earlier (which can be forgiven if they were actually busy or I didn't wear such distinct clothing) or
4) I pay for the item to be told I then have to carry it all over the event so I can be the advertising instead of holding it with my name for later pickup! This last one is usually the worst to me for personal reasons.
I take a card and go to the website. I actually am probably one of the few people that actually go to the website but I do. I NEVER expect a phone call from giving out my own business cards but maintain a website for contact even if I've never sold a thing from the site. It is part of doing business in the digital age. My site stats always spike after a show and giving out the cards is why. What I have at a show and on the web site are rarely the same so one cannot just "take" it off the site. Usually the person comes back the next year and buys from me instead of the year prior. My valued repeat customers all know me from having my business cards and from bookmarking my site. It also drives business to our other sites by linking them together. I've asked my customers about getting cards and that is how they have responded -- 'thanks for giving me your card'. The site isn't for only selling, it is today's version of cheaper advertising at its finest.
I've been burned too many times by vendors of all sorts to trust that I will get my product. Once shame on you, twice shame on me. If the vendor has what I want, I will always take a card and buy off the website if I have the option v buying immediately. If the vendor cannot "deliver" the product in the manner that is convenient for me (whether digital or postal shipping), I'll find a vendor that can. In today's digital market of tablets and smart phones, I've many times experienced the customer putting my site into their phone/tablet right then and there and then hand me back the card.
And just an FYI, I'm a vendor lovers dream customer. I have no problem on dropping lotsa moola at a day at the fair to purchase what I want but I better get what I want the way I want or I'll walk every time. Right or wrong, I treat my customers the same way I want to be treated and that is they way I run my now photography "whatever-one-wants-to-call-this-endeavor". FWIW, I retired at 35 (prior to being a now "poor starving artist") so that methodology can't all be bad
I don't shoot in the T&I genre so of course what works for me won't necessarily work for you and all my opinions as a customer include YMMV. In a nutshell, cards are cheap -- so why sweat giving them out...