Strobes for swimming....

winger · November 9, 2005

Ok I am getting a set of Alien Bees in the mail on friday and I wanted to shoot swimming on saturday. Yeah I know lights water bad idea, but the pool has balconeys that I can set the lights up.

Now I have never used strobes before, so what kind of settings will I be looking to use.

Does anyone know a cheap light meter I can get to help me figure out the settings or is it worth it to buy a really good one.

Is there anything else I can use to trigger the lights wirelessly other than pocket wizards?

Any help would totally be appreciated.

blackwaterstudio · November 9, 2005

Winger,
take a look at this. Maybe it'll help.

http://www.daveblackphotography.com/workshop/arena-lighting.htm

winger · November 9, 2005

Yeah I have seen that before ( I have it book marked, I dont know if these lights are powerful enough, but those are cool effects even with the one or two lamps that I certainly can do with the women's team......)

Pocket wizards are expensive, and I guess if that is the route I am eventually going to go, but ugh.

Do they come as a set of two, or two I have to buy two, one for the camera and one for the flash units....

I know in the arena I would have to wire all the flash units together so they dont go off when one of the other guys stobes go off, but I am not even sure how much I want to start strobing the big arena anyways because I have way more flexibility because I am not held down by lights......

But it would be cool to experiment none the less.

Anyways, the pool is small, 25 yards, two balconeys on either end, I figured I would set up the lights facing hte blocks in the balcony. I cant use the lights for diving that is for sure. But I dont know if there is a cheaper way to trigger them than the pocket wizards, or if I just get a long ass cable and run it down the balconey to my camera. But honestly I proably should go wireless....I got pretty wet last time I shot swimming..

Wow i can go on about something I barely know about cant I.

winger · November 9, 2005

You know what I just realised, I think I can get the bee's to fire if I have my 580 on my camera too

and just point it up.

So when the flashes "see" my flash they will fire, but does that create and sort of lag?

Then again light travels fast.

hmmmmm.

Shay Stephens · November 10, 2005

The optical triggers will work, and as long as you keep within the sync speed of the camera you should be fine. The problem will come from making sure the bees can all see the trigger flash. Also, anyone else firing off their flash may trigger them.

winger wrote:

You know what I just realised, I think I can get the bee's to fire if I have my 580 on my camera too

and just point it up.

So when the flashes "see" my flash they will fire, but does that create and sort of lag?

Then again light travels fast.

hmmmmm.

Shay Stephens · November 10, 2005

I personally would not recommend the bees or any other ac powered flash for water sports. Battery operated flashes would be much safer. But if you must use them, plug them into a GFI outlet and verify the GFI works before using.

Your settings will depend on the lighting of the venue. So there is no way to know ahead of time.

You want a good flash meter, not a cheap one. Like buying a lens, the meter won't do you any good if it is poor quality or unreliable. However, there is a good meter that I have been using, the Sekonic L-358. It is both a flash meter and an ambient light meter.

There are a number of ways to trigger lights, but none that are more convenient or reliable as a set of pocket wizards. Once you get them, you don't have to worry about it any more. I dread the thought of having to use any other method. Optical triggering is not reliable outdoors. The cheap radio units have little range and are prone to interference too. Reliability is the name of the game here.

winger wrote:

Ok I am getting a set of Alien Bees in the mail on friday and I wanted to shoot swimming on saturday. Yeah I know lights water bad idea, but the pool has balconeys that I can set the lights up.

Now I have never used strobes before, so what kind of settings will I be looking to use.

Does anyone know a cheap light meter I can get to help me figure out the settings or is it worth it to buy a really good one.

Is there anything else I can use to trigger the lights wirelessly other than pocket wizards?

Any help would totally be appreciated.

pathfinder · November 10, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

I personally would not recommend the bees or any other ac powered flash for water sports. Battery operated flashes would be much safer. But if you must use them, plug them into a GFI outlet and verify the GFI works before using.

Your settings will depend on the lighting of the venue. So there is no way to know ahead of time.

You want a good flash meter, not a cheap one. Like buying a lens, the meter won't do you any good if it is poor quality or unreliable. However, there is a good meter that I have been using, the Sekonic L-358. It is both a flash meter and an ambient light meter.

There are a number of ways to trigger lights, but none that are more convenient or reliable as a set of pocket wizards. Once you get them, you don't have to worry about it any more. I dread the thought of having to use any other method. Optical triggering is not reliable outdoors. The cheap radio units have little range and are prone to interference too. Reliability is the name of the game here.

Barefoot kids, water, 110 Ac - scares me!!

Pocket Wizards rule!! Optical triggering will not be reliable if other shooters are using flash also. You will fire as your strobes are recharging and get no light. The L-358 works just fine.

winger · November 10, 2005

Thanks guys.

(Dont worry I did consider the thought of lights and water, but I was going to put the lights up in the balconey, pointing down at the pool, well away from the water).

And I will be the ONLY one shooting at the pool ( I usually am the only one shoot for the "non revenue" sports but I kind of like shooting swimming, its just wet)

Yeah I have no problem spending more to get a quality item, I just didnt want to go out and buy the most expesnive light meter just because its the most expensive.

Now the Pocket wizards do I have to buy two, or do they come in a set of two?
And if I wanted to do remote camera set ups, are Pocket Wizards also what I would use for that?

ian408 · November 10, 2005

winger wrote:

Now the Pocket wizards do I have to buy two, or do they come in a set of two?
And if I wanted to do remote camera set ups, are Pocket Wizards also what I would use for that?

You need something on the camera to trigger each light (transmitter
and receiver). www.arenastrobes.com has some ideas on how to connect
things up if you want to use zip cord (lamp cord). The easiest (and most
expensive) would be to have a transmitter on the camera and a receiver on
each light.

If you do go PW, there's "Multimax" and "Plus". Multimax allows you the most
freedom and is (of course) more expensive. There are also some radios listed
on e-bay. Many feel they're ok but will often suggest an upgrade to PW later
on

Good luck!

Ian

Shay Stephens · November 10, 2005

You need a transmitter on the camera and a receiver on each light you want to trigger wirelessly. The pocket wizard plus units are all you need. The multimax units are more specialized in that they allow you to control each light separately.

In order to trigger a remote camera, you need a receiver for the camera to be triggered and a motor drive cord such as this one for a Canon camera:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=198049&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Now, if you are shooting ambiently, that is all you need. But if you are going to have the remote camera trigger flash units, then the remote camera will also need a transmitter.

Why can't you use the transmitter used to trigger the camera? Lag time. When the remote camera gets the signal to take the picture, the strobes are going off. By the time the camera is exposing, the flash units have already turned off. So to get the timing correct you need to setup like this (assuming pocketwizard plus units).

Transmitter set to channel 1 that you control from a distance.
Remote camera with a receiver set to channel 1 (to trigger the camera).
Motor drive cord plugged between the camera and receiver
Transmitter plugged into the camera hotshoe set to channel 2 (to trigger a light)
At least one light with a receiver set to channel 2

When the transmitter set to channel 1 transmits, the remote cameras receiver gets the signal and sends it through the motor drive cord to the camera. The camera in turn sends a signal to the transmitter set to channel 2 and begins the exposure. The receiver on the light(s) set to channel 2 gets the signal and triggers the lights to fire while the camera is still exposing.

You can get fancy and set the lights to channel 1 so you can set them off with your transmitter attached to a second camera, and then the remote camera some milliseconds later will also go off using the same lights. You just need to make sure the recycle time on the lights can handle firing off twice within that short a period.

winger wrote:

Now the Pocket wizards do I have to buy two, or do they come in a set of two?
And if I wanted to do remote camera set ups, are Pocket Wizards also what I would use for that?

Strobes for swimming....

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