School Play

gubbs · July 15, 2004

I went to my daughters school play last night, I took quite a few shots but was very dissapointed with the results.

Due to the difficult light I decided I would take everything in RAW but everything is so slow... I kept missing shots while I was waiting for the buffer to clear.
Next problem, initially I had the camera set on iso 50, using the built in flash with the camera on full auto the pictures were underexposed. I wound the iso up to 200 which seemed to be better.
Next, I was using ESP AF but because of the low light the camera was struggling to focus, increasing the shutter delay, so I kept missing expressions etc.. swapped over to manual focus but didn't notice that the AE was opening the aperture out to 3.2 so I had a very shallow DOF and subsequently I have a lot of not very sharp/fuzzy shots .

In the end I did get a few which were OK but overall I was pretty dissapointed.
This really highlighted to me how much I have to learn!! What have I done wrong and what should I have done?
(I was using an Olympus 8080)

Thanks

cletus · July 15, 2004

Ah, school plays, theatrical lighting, existing light photography... I love this post!

At my high school we always held Picture Night the night before opening night. The school's photographer always shot fairly low speed (ISO 100???) print film at medium apertures (I'd guess f/5.6 - 11) without flash. The problem was to that to get a proper exposure, the exposure time was long... on the order of a second. So that he could use an exposure that long, any time he wanted to take a shot, all the people on stage had to freeze while the picture was taken. Of course the camera was tripod mounted.

If your daughter's school has a picture night that is run in a similar fashion, you might find out if you can go and bring a tripod. When the action freezes, go ahead and take your shots at the same time. Since there is a pause in the action, you'll have a chance to get your focus nailed down, the RAW file write times wont be an issue, you can use slower than normal shutter speeds, and you wont need flash.

If the school doesn't have a picture night, or they don't run picture night the same way, you're going to have to either work available light or use flash. I'm not a big fan of flash for school play pictures because you're going to loose the effect of the stage lighting. On the other hand, as good as cameras like your 8080 (and my G5 for that matter) are, available light photography in a situation like a school play is simply beyond what they were designed to do. However, I seem to remember Andy getting some killer shots from a concert using his Sony 828. Maybe he'll drop by and let us know some of his secrets.

pathfinder · July 15, 2004

gubbs wrote:

I went to my daughters school play last night, I took quite a few shots but was very dissapointed with the results.

Due to the difficult light I decided I would take everything in RAW but everything is so slow... I kept missing shots while I was waiting for the buffer to clear.
Next problem, initially I had the camera set on iso 50, using the built in flash with the camera on full auto the pictures were underexposed. I wound the iso up to 200 which seemed to be better.
Next, I was using ESP AF but because of the low light the camera was struggling to focus, increasing the shutter delay, so I kept missing expressions etc.. swapped over to manual focus but didn't notice that the AE was opening the aperture out to 3.2 so I had a very shallow DOF and subsequently I have a lot of not very sharp/fuzzy shots .

In the end I did get a few which were OK but overall I was pretty dissapointed.
This really highlighted to me how much I have to learn!! What have I done wrong and what should I have done?
(I was using an Olympus 8080)

Thanks

With the maximum aperature of f2.8(? I think?) with an Oly 8080, I suspect that you will have to raise your ISO to 400 or 800, increasing the noise issue, or go to some form of extrernal lighting. f yoiu want to shoot at aperatures smaller than f4 or f5.6, you will certainly need more film speed.

If you are over 20 feet from stage, the focus issue may be better on manual and preset, rather than trying to refocus for each shot. Maybe not the ideal way of handling things, but the best for P&S cameras in low light.

THge other alternative is an SLR with a bigger aperature and lower noise at higher ISOs. The next generation of P&S cameras will begin to address these issues I bet.

tmlphoto · July 15, 2004

gubbs wrote:

I went to my daughters school play last night, I took quite a few shots but was very dissapointed with the results.

Due to the difficult light I decided I would take everything in RAW but everything is so slow... I kept missing shots while I was waiting for the buffer to clear.
Next problem, initially I had the camera set on iso 50, using the built in flash with the camera on full auto the pictures were underexposed. I wound the iso up to 200 which seemed to be better.
Next, I was using ESP AF but because of the low light the camera was struggling to focus, increasing the shutter delay, so I kept missing expressions etc.. swapped over to manual focus but didn't notice that the AE was opening the aperture out to 3.2 so I had a very shallow DOF and subsequently I have a lot of not very sharp/fuzzy shots .

In the end I did get a few which were OK but overall I was pretty dissapointed.
This really highlighted to me how much I have to learn!! What have I done wrong and what should I have done?
(I was using an Olympus 8080)

Thanks

Gubbs,
I had a similar experience trying to take pictures at my daughter's ballet program. I played around and found that ISO 800 was very helpful. It introduced some noise, but not too bad especially for a 4x6. There are some noise reducing programs out there as well (noise ninja for example) I also would purposefully underexpose by 1-2 stops in order to keep the shutter speed fast enough to freeze the action, if necessary. You can then bump it up when processing your RAW file. This will also introduce some noise. A monopod is also helpful and not too cumbersome. Manual focus is a good idea as you mentioned. I tried to take some trial & error shots when there was stuff happening that I didn't really care about & review the results on the LCD. I'm new to this as well and would appreciate any tips that you might discover. I've got 4 children (ages 5 mos.,2,4 &6yrs) so I've got alot of these low light events in my future. Hope this helps some.

gubbs · July 16, 2004

Thanks for the replies,
I think I need to experiment with the higher speeds & see what the noise is like

wxwax · July 16, 2004

Some suggestions based on my difficulties shooting bands in low light venues using ambient light.

* Buy Noise Ninja online. It's inexpensive, and can remove a ton of noise.
* Find the highest acceptable ISO, bearing in mind the curative powers of Noise Ninja.
* Shoot as wide open as you can, bearing in mind depth of field issues.
* Shoot in burst mode.
* Husband your resources - don't shoot the maximum burst - always keep a few shots in hand. (Dunno what the 8080 burst is like.)
* Shoot in RAW.
* Reduce the exposure compensation by a stop or two, then bring it back when you're processing the RAW image. This will increase your shutter speed.

The last tip is the one that's helped me the most lately.

gubbs · July 16, 2004

* Husband your resources - don't shoot the maximum burst - always keep a few shots in hand. (Dunno what the 8080 burst is like.)
* Shoot in RAW.

Burst mode in RAW is not available one shot freezes the camera for about 7 seconds. This is a big drawback! I didn't consider it important when I was choosing the camera....oh well, you live and learn!

* Reduce the exposure compensation by a stop or two, then bring it back when you're processing the RAW image. This will increase your shutter speed.
The last tip is the one that's helped me the most lately.

Did the opposite to this for the "movement" challenge, it didnt occur to me to try it for the play....

Thanks for the tips, I'll give it all a try...... could be good to do a low light no flash challenge?

gubbs · July 16, 2004

Oh, I think the biggest mistake was to ask for advice after the event....

Thanks again

wxwax · July 16, 2004

gubbs wrote:

Thanks for the tips, I'll give it all a try...... could be good to do a low light no flash challenge?

All mine have been learned the hard way. I've shot one band four times now, and have yet to show them any of the work. Last Friday had the opportunity to be the first good shoot - and then the bar elected to not turn on the 'stage' lights at all - just ambient light in a dark corner. There went another shoot.

I don't want to know what kind of a fool the band thinks I am!

I like the low light/no flash challenge - but only because I've had so much practice at it.

I'm going to experiment with a muted or directed flash. The reason I don't use the flash when shooting the peformances is because it lights up everything with a glaring, merciless harsh light. The ugly stage background is flooded with light, it all looks horrendous. If I can figure out a way to get a soft light on the performer only, I'll do it. Patch mentioned a snoot so I ordered one - we'll see if it helps.

School Play

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