New future camera.

Mercedes BenzMercedes Benz Registered Users Posts: 11 Big grins
edited May 18, 2015 in Cameras
I'm trying to save up the cash for a new DSLR. So much controversy out there on the web and in the public about one being far better than the other and vice versa.

I used to have a brand new Nikon DSLR, but I sold it and saved some money to get a faster, higher MP and ISO model. I ended up getting an EOS 30D, but of course its a dinosaur now.

Now I'm selling it to probably get something by Nikon, probably a used, good condition D4s, and try to find an f/1.2 lens (35 or 50mm) from somewhere, but I hear Nikon doesn't make a 1.2 anymore and Canon does. So I guess it'll have to be a 1.4.

I also keep hearing that Nikon makes a full-frame sensor and it says it's a 36mm (not 35), and that Canon is still stuck on 26mm (or 28) sensors and that they're no bigger than 35. If they do have 35, how is it that Nikon is making a 36?

And that Nikon makes a better shoe-mount flash than Canon. Someone tried to get me to buy the Nikon Df, but its shutter speed is only up to 1/4000 and does not take good shots in the dark after 6,400 ISO.

Anyway, I would like to hear all opinions and suggestions with all your cameras you've ever had and all lessons learned from all brands and models. Thank you.:D
Canon EOS 30D
Canon EF 28-135mm USM 3.5-5.6 IS
Gary Fong's Lightsphere II C3 (clear)
I don't have a Speedlite yet.

Comments

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited May 10, 2015
    ... Now I'm selling it to probably get something by Nikon, probably a used, good condition D4s, and try to find an f/1.2 lens (35 or 50mm) from somewhere, but I hear Nikon doesn't make a 1.2 anymore and Canon does. So I guess it'll have to be a 1.4. ...

    If you feel that you must buy a Nikon camera, a Nikon D4s is an excellent, although expensive, choice. If you feel that an expensive body will make you a better photographer, it most certainly will not make you a better photographer.

    Nikon, Canon, Sony, Pentax, ... (long day, who am I forgetting?), all make rather excellent dSLRs (and derivative digital cameras which act like dSLRs).

    Yes, Nikon makes excellent lenses too. (So do the other manufacturers mentioned.)

    A single prime lens will probably not serve many different purposes. I suggest purchasing a professional zoom lens instead, and a professional standard zoom will be much more versatile to start with. I suggest perhaps a Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G AF-S ED as a great Nikon FX standard zoom lens.
    ... I also keep hearing that Nikon makes a full-frame sensor and it says it's a 36mm (not 35), and that Canon is still stuck on 26mm (or 28) sensors and that they're no bigger than 35. If they do have 35, how is it that Nikon is making a 36?
    ...

    Nonsense. Canon made Full-Frame (FF), 135 format Digital-SLR bodies before Nikon made their first.

    A FF dSLR has an image sensor of 36mm x 24mm. The correct name for a typical FF body is 135 format.

    (When people talk about a "35mm body", that refers to the width of film used in a FF film body. Since digital cameras don't use film, it's just wrong (IMO) to use the phrase, "35mm body". "135 format", on the other hand, also refers to the lens coverage, so the term, "135 format" is still in common use to designate a FF digital body.)

    Canon, Nikon and Sony all make, or recently made (in the case of Sony) FF Digital-SLR, interchangeable lens, cameras.

    APS-C format digital, interchangeable lens, cameras, are also made by the above manufacturers, as well as Pentax and others. Canon makes APS-C/Crop 1.6x bodies, while the rest (I believe) make APS-C/Crop 1.5x bodies. No real significance between Crop 1.6x bodies and Crop 1.5x bodies.

    ... And that Nikon makes a better shoe-mount flash than Canon. Someone tried to get me to buy the Nikon Df, but its shutter speed is only up to 1/4000 and does not take good shots in the dark after 6,400 ISO.

    ...

    Both Canon and Nikon make excellent flash automation systems. Many professionals also use radio master/slave sets for better versatility and reliability in more shooting situations. I've never used the other manufacturer flash automation systems, but generally they also have specific strengths and weaknesses.

    Yes, competent ISO 6400 generally does require a FF body from one of the major manufacturers. Even then, you may not always like the results.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • puzzledpaulpuzzledpaul Registered Users Posts: 1,621 Major grins
    edited May 10, 2015
    I'll add a couple of questions to the mix

    What's your budget (initial / long term) ?
    What subject matter are you likely to be taking pics of?

    pp
  • EphTwoEightEphTwoEight Registered Users Posts: 552 Major grins
    edited May 10, 2015
    Im happy to get rid of my Nikon FF stuff. and went with the Fuji XT1. And its 85mm equiv is an f/1.2 and only $800 vs. Nikons 85 1.4 which will set you back about $1800. And The Fujis shutter goes to 1/32,000 sec. which I've used in an outdoor portrait situation. Its stellar, and I going to say sharper than my D800 with that 85 1.4
  • kdogkdog Administrators Posts: 11,680 moderator
    edited May 11, 2015
    In addition to what others have said...
    And that Nikon makes a better shoe-mount flash than Canon.
    The Canon 600EX-RT radio-controlled flash system is the most advanced in the industry right now. Read any review on it.
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited May 11, 2015
    The Canon vs Nikon debate could go on as long as the Honda vs Toyota or Mercedes Benz vs BMW, and ultimately it comes down to what YOU prefer; the cameras feel quite different in the hand. All the major brands offer good glass these days, so you're unlikely to have a shortage of choices.

    I'll offer the usual advice: find a store which carries a wide range of brands and play with the display models. In my quest to see/handle certain mirrorless models, I recently discovered that Best Buy has really stepped up their game. I was told that many regions now have at least one area store with a HUGE imaging department that contains "serious" gear (and serious photographers working there) rather than just the usual consumer stuff and non-specialist salespeople. They will also price-match reputable vendors like Amazon, Adorama etc if you prefer to buy locally. (I still prefer Adorama and B&H, but it is VERY useful to have a bricks-and-mortar location for certain tings!).

    (Fwiw I have always HATED best buy, but recent experience has changed my mind. Both sales people I spoke to knew their stuff, and they had not only a huge range of cameras on display - and functional! - but also proper accessories like reflectors, lighting gear, strobist add-on's and other things I've not seen in the chain before. It's not in every store, but the one(s) they've dsignated for the region.)
  • MitchellMitchell Registered Users Posts: 3,503 Major grins
    edited May 11, 2015
    The amount of misinformation in that first post is staggering. Do yourself a favor and don't buy a high end camera like a Nikon D4s or Nikon DF if you are asking these types of questions.

    What type of photography are you planning to shoot and what is your budget?
  • Mercedes BenzMercedes Benz Registered Users Posts: 11 Big grins
    edited May 11, 2015
    Yes, I know buying a high-end pro DSLR won't make me a better photographer, but having a really good DSLR inspires one to do better—at least it does for me. But I still would like to upgrade from what I have and not just a small upgrade, either. An EOS 70D or a Nikon equivalent model is okay, but I can spend more then that after I one of my three bills is paid off.

    I didn't start from crappy shots to fair ones when I got my first camera back in '05, and I know if I do get the D4s or the D5 whenever it arrives, I won't become any or much better, but I'd like to have something that shoots in the dark far better than what I've been shooting with since '08. I mean it only shoots up to 3200 ISO and it doesn't have an NR filter.

    Well, the kind of photography I like is portrait, whether it's dark or light, in or outdoors. I like macro, nature, journey, weddings (but weddings may be the last thing I do since I have a lot to learn and no one will hire an amateur, anyway). I also like city and people photography. And of course astrophotography, which to me isn't easy, but I plan to learn that, too.

    The only place that sells DSLRs near me is BestBuy, but all they carry are the Rebels and the D3300 up to the D5200 and a couple of lenses and flashes. That particular store isn't that interested in DSLRs, but they sure have the TVs and computers.

    Wolfcamera was a couple miles farther out, but they shut down not too long ago. I call places that are more farther away and they say they don't have any camera that's over $1,200 to $1,500, therefore leaving me to have to view and buy online.

    I used to have the Nikon SB600 flash (two of them). Each one stopped working after a few weeks. The first one was completely unresponsive, as if there were no batteries in it, and the second one worked only when it wanted to. I never yet bought a flash for my 30D, but I still have a Lightsphere that I used with the SB600.

    Anyway, I'm trying to answer everyone, but I have to go. I'll be back later. Thanks for all your replies, everyone. I only ask questions and make comments so I can learn all I can. Not trying to ask or comment silly questions, although it may seem that's what I'm doing, but I'm just trying to learn is all. Thanks and you all have a wonderful evening. :D
    Canon EOS 30D
    Canon EF 28-135mm USM 3.5-5.6 IS
    Gary Fong's Lightsphere II C3 (clear)
    I don't have a Speedlite yet.
  • puzzledpaulpuzzledpaul Registered Users Posts: 1,621 Major grins
    edited May 12, 2015

    Well, the kind of photography I like is portrait, whether it's dark or light, in or outdoors. I like macro, nature, journey, weddings (but weddings may be the last thing I do since I have a lot to learn and no one will hire an amateur, anyway). I also like city and people photography. And of course astrophotography, which to me isn't easy, but I plan to learn that, too.

    Well, apart from sports and underwater pics ... that just about covers everything :)

    I wonder what is your main interest though ... the one that gets you really excited at the prospect of getting a decent shot ... 'cos, by using the words 'of course' in front of astrophotography ... makes it sound like it's a front runner?

    One of the genres - macro - has particular 'gear' relevance - depending on how deep you want to go, as no-one else offers anything like Canon's mpe-65.

    pp
  • MitchellMitchell Registered Users Posts: 3,503 Major grins
    edited May 12, 2015

    I didn't start from crappy shots to fair ones when I got my first camera back in '05, and I know if I do get the D4s or the D5 whenever it arrives, I won't become any or much better, but I'd like to have something that shoots in the dark far better than what I've been shooting with since '08. I mean it only shoots up to 3200 ISO and it doesn't have an NR filter.

    What is this NR filter you keep referencing?

    If I were you with money being tight and a desire to get back into photography, I would buy a lightly used Nikon D700 and a 50mm lens. This will be light years ahead of your old camera. Full frame with excellent low light performance at a great price.
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited May 12, 2015

    I also keep hearing that Nikon makes a full-frame sensor and it says it's a 36mm (not 35), and that Canon is still stuck on 26mm (or 28) sensors and that they're no bigger than 35. If they do have 35, how is it that Nikon is making a 36?

    Where do you keep hearing this?
  • Mercedes BenzMercedes Benz Registered Users Posts: 11 Big grins
    edited May 12, 2015
    Puzz: I like all the styles of photography that I mentioned very much. Honestly couldn't say which is my favorite. I said, "And of course astrophotography", meaning I didn't want to forget that and leave it out as a part of my interest. But that kind of photography will take a telescope and adapters that I'll have to buy as well. I got bit by the photography bug (as they say) 10 years ago. I got quite busy and caught up in other things in 2013, and it took me until April to get back into this hobby and I need to keep at it. :D

    Mitchell: Thanks very much. But soon I'll have more money for something newer. Meanwhile, I'm still practicing with my 30D, mostly in the M mode. The heck with the auto. Many shots are nice in auto, but I still ought to stay away from it, unless something happened too fast for me to set a couple things in manual. And it may not be easy to find a used anything in this town and I don't trust Ebay. umph.gif And I read about the NR somewhere online. I forget what the link was. They said that as you get into the very high ISOs, you can set the NR to ON and it will keep the color noise and grainy stuff to a minimum.

    John: I heard these things from who know far more than I do about cameras at places like BestBuy and WolfCamera and on places like Dpreview.com. But this is why I want to come in here and ask. All you guys have the good cameras and awesome pictures. This is a place of learning. As for the shoe-mount flashes, it was said that the SB800 back in the day was able to shoot in ways (don't remember how this man explained it) that the Speedlites couldn't. Beats me. headscratch.gif
    Canon EOS 30D
    Canon EF 28-135mm USM 3.5-5.6 IS
    Gary Fong's Lightsphere II C3 (clear)
    I don't have a Speedlite yet.
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,167 moderator
    edited May 13, 2015
    MB wrote:
    I heard these things from who know far more than I do about cameras at places like BestBuy and WolfCamera

    Stop going to those places. And if you do, I wouldn't trust "information" from counter salespeople at mass merchandisers that are on commission to sell only inventory they have on hand. You have obviously been led astray with what you have mentioned in this thread. DPReview - now that source is right 99+% of the time.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited May 13, 2015
    I'm with David, I couldn't recommended Best Buy or Wolf, or any mass merchant type of business for solid photography guidance.

    This is a good place. but as always get conformation about what your reading. If I recommend something CHECK it out as well! :D

    Right now I will suggest you continue with your research ask questions, read, go to a good CAMERA store with inventory so you can hold them etc. Consider renting the camera you are considering to buy.

    You have a lot of questions and are unclear as to your real needs.

    Don't spend any money right now, there is no rush!!

    All the time you take to learn about what will best meet your needs will be very well spent.

    You mentioned you a camera that will shoot high ISO. It doesn't matter what the camera ISO can be set to. It only matters if the ISO will be usable. IE, I don't think I would use your 30D any higher than 800. Over that the image would be too noisy for me. I don't really like to use my Canon 5D II over 1600, but I have been able to get usable images at 3200. The Canon 5D III can go higher and get good usable images. I think that Nikon (not sure which model, and the model is VERY important) is currently the high ISO king.

    Knowledge is everything.

    Many would recommend you look at a brand and the complete like of accessories, lenses, flashes, etc as opposed to just randomly picking a camera body and then find out you can't a lens or item you need for they type of photography you want to do.

    There is no one camera best at everything. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

    Sam
  • puzzledpaulpuzzledpaul Registered Users Posts: 1,621 Major grins
    edited May 13, 2015
    Puzz: I like all the styles of photography that I mentioned very much. Honestly couldn't say which is my favorite. I said, "And of course astrophotography", meaning I didn't want to forget that and leave it out as a part of my interest. But that kind of photography will take a telescope and adapters that I'll have to buy as well. I got bit by the photography bug (as they say) 10 years ago. I got quite busy and caught up in other things in 2013, and it took me until April to get back into this hobby and I need to keep at it. :D

    Well, I've yet to visit a 'generalist's' website where I've been equally impressed by all of the images displayed on it.

    In the same way that I will give much cause for mirth / need to replace pacemaker batteries, to other dgrinners - if I upload pics taken at my daughter's wedding later this year - I shake my head at others' attempts at genres which are obviously not their primary interest / out of their comfort zone.

    pp
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited May 13, 2015
    Guys, I DON'T recommend Best Buy as a rule, and my comments apply ONLY to the "imaging center" stores, which is usually one branch per region. They have completely re-invented the department in those stores from what I saw, and I was impressed - my recent experience rivalled the selection I've seen at MUCH larger stores (and yes, I've been to B&H in person!), and the associates actually knew what they were talking about.

    Just to clarify so nobody thinks I've forgotten how to shop rolleyes1.gif
  • Mercedes BenzMercedes Benz Registered Users Posts: 11 Big grins
    edited May 14, 2015
    Yeah, I know BHPhoto, has their stuff together over there. I've signed up on their site several years ago. Ordered their catalog. They keep me informed about things on my smartphone. They have domestic and import stuff, and I'm not sure what the difference is between the two except the price.
    Canon EOS 30D
    Canon EF 28-135mm USM 3.5-5.6 IS
    Gary Fong's Lightsphere II C3 (clear)
    I don't have a Speedlite yet.
  • moose135moose135 Registered Users Posts: 1,413 Major grins
    edited May 14, 2015
    They have domestic and import stuff, and I'm not sure what the difference is between the two except the price.
    The import stuff is typically "grey market" items - they are the same as the domestic stuff, but don't necessarily have the same manufacturer warranty, as they were not intended for sale in the US.
  • Mercedes BenzMercedes Benz Registered Users Posts: 11 Big grins
    edited May 17, 2015
    Well, it is important to have a warranty, but at least they are real products and not generic?

    For example, John Deer sold the rights to Lowe's (or HomeDepot - or both) to use the John Deer brand name on generic lawn/garden equipment; and therefore, when, say, a riding lawnmower breaks down, it cannot be taken to John Deer. They will not repair it with the warranty that came with it. It has to be taken back to the home improvement stores and let them deal with the warranty.

    Same thing with Michelin tires. They sold the rights to Walmart to use their brand name on crappy generic tires from wherever they're made at. You buy the one that supposed to last 90,000 miles, it may only last up to 30,000.

    So my concern is, if I were to buy a new camera from a store like Walmart or even off Amazon (to save some money, especially when something's on sale), did Canon or Nikon sell the rights to any store in the world to put their brand names on generic-made cameras and accessories? If so, they won't last long. This should be against the law—impostors with the authentic brand names. rolleyes1.gif
    Canon EOS 30D
    Canon EF 28-135mm USM 3.5-5.6 IS
    Gary Fong's Lightsphere II C3 (clear)
    I don't have a Speedlite yet.
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,765 moderator
    edited May 17, 2015
    ... So my concern is, if I were to buy a new camera from a store like Walmart or even off Amazon (to save some money, especially when something's on sale), did Canon or Nikon sell the rights to any store in the world to put their brand names on generic-made cameras and accessories? If so, they won't last long. This should be against the law—impostors with the authentic brand names. rolleyes1.gif

    All of the big name camera manufacturers source from an international consortium of global sub-assemblies and sub-components. There have been rumors that some camera manufacturers provide cheaper components to mass merchandisers' intended markets ('X'Marts, Sears, Costco, etc.), but I am not aware of any exposé which proves that as a fact. Rather, it seems that camera internals can be a virtual cornucopia of different manufacturer labels.

    Nikon, in particular, is known to use image sensors from Sony in many cameras, but you also see Toshiba imagers in even the better Nikon dSLRs. Aptina is another sensor manufacturer Nikon uses, and there are rumors that Aptina sensors may be used in Nikon's best dSLRs at some point. (http://www.chipworks.com/ is a fairly good source of information for those with a technical bent. mwink.gif)

    If you intend on using a camera for a business purpose my honest and serious recommendation is to purchase new camera bodies and new lenses intended for the US market (assuming a US resident). The reason is that it's just that much easier to establish a warranty service or repair. Indeed, it may also be easier to join one of the professional networks if you have only photographic serial numbers tied to your particular global region. (Canon Professional Services, aka CPS, and Nikon Professional Services, aka NPS, for instance.)

    For used items that are out of warranty I suppose that it just doesn't matter too much.

    Following what I preach, I have only purchased US intended bodies and likewise lenses when purchasing new. thumb.gif

    The recommended and authorized dealers I purchase from are (alphabetically but not necessarily any preference):
    Adorama
    B&H
    Calumet
    Tallyn's
    I cannot recommend purchasing important photographic components from Walmart (not really known for their photographic prowess), nor from Amazon (although I have bought used photographic items and smaller stuff from them, but not key components).

    I mean, c'mon; would you trust your Mercedes Benz automobile to Walmart's Automotive Center for anything? Then why purchase photographic items from them?

    Buy, and support, people with real photographic knowledge and authorized manufacturer support as it just makes sense.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,904 moderator
    edited May 17, 2015
    Well, it is important to have a warranty, but at least they are real products and not generic?

    For example, John Deer sold the rights to Lowe's (or HomeDepot - or both) to use the John Deer brand name on generic lawn/garden equipment; and therefore, when, say, a riding lawnmower breaks down, it cannot be taken to John Deer. They will not repair it with the warranty that came with it. It has to be taken back to the home improvement stores and let them deal with the warranty.

    Same thing with Michelin tires. They sold the rights to Walmart to use their brand name on crappy generic tires from wherever they're made at. You buy the one that supposed to last 90,000 miles, it may only last up to 30,000.

    So my concern is, if I were to buy a new camera from a store like Walmart or even off Amazon (to save some money, especially when something's on sale), did Canon or Nikon sell the rights to any store in the world to put their brand names on generic-made cameras and accessories? If so, they won't last long. This should be against the law—impostors with the authentic brand names. rolleyes1.gif

    Have you considered that to offer brand name merchandise at low prices, the manufacturer might have agreed to the lower wholesale price only if the retailer accepted the warranty service?
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited May 18, 2015
    For example, John Deer sold the rights to Lowe's (or HomeDepot - or both) to use the John Deer brand name on generic lawn/garden equipment; and therefore, when, say, a riding lawnmower breaks down, it cannot be taken to John Deer. They will not repair it with the warranty that came with it. It has to be taken back to the home improvement stores and let them deal with the warranty.
    Taking this a bit off topic but there has been much mis-information in your posts. I don't understand this part . I bought a John Deere from Lowe's because the local John Deere did not have the model I wanted in stock. On the mower there is a sticker showing warranty repaired covered by the local John Deere service center. When I needed service I did not call Lowe's and everything was taken care of.
  • MitchellMitchell Registered Users Posts: 3,503 Major grins
    edited May 18, 2015
    I've never heard of a "generic" camera.

    These posts are now getting increasingly humorous. The OP needs to decide on a budget and what type of photography he is interested in and then just buy from a reputable seller (BH, Adorama, etc...).
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