Lowlight clubs shots

BBones · November 23, 2005

Ok, I am using the 20d with the 50 1.8 now and I am noticing that the 50 is a bit too much in the zoomed in department to get the closer shots (clubs get busy) or the wider angle "friend shots". What prime lens would you recommend that can give me the same high detail/low light ability? I had considered the 24-70 L 2.8 but I think 2.8 is not enough for letting club lighting (Lasers/ strobe effects) in since I have tried using the 50mm at 2.8 and was forced to use the flash to get the shadows off people.

BBones · November 23, 2005

oh, and please be gentle on the price...I can't drop $1100 on a lens for the few club shoots I do, especially when I am trying to save for a 1dmk2 AND a 300 IS L 2.8 at the same time. Couple of hunded is ok, couple more then that is bad.

ScottMcLeod · November 23, 2005

BBones wrote:

oh, and please be gentle on the price...I can't drop $1100 on a lens for the few club shoots I do, especially when I am trying to save for a 1dmk2 AND a 300 IS L 2.8 at the same time. Couple of hunded is ok, couple more then that is bad.

Tamron 28-75 f/2.8

'nuff said.

OR, 20mm f/1.8

OR, 17-35mm f/2.8-4

HeldDown · November 23, 2005

What was it you said, Scott? 1/90s ISO800 f/2.8 with the Tamron? In a similar lighting situation to what you're facing, BBones; maybe a little lighter. To be honest, I think you'd probably have to push it down to 1/60 or even 1/40 to get the exposure you need in that environment. I've been looking at the Sigma 28mm 1.8; works out to 45mm cropped, and seems to be decently sharp. As I recall, it's less than $300 AMR. ($225 at S4L it seems.) For another 60 bucks you can get the 24mm, which takes you to 38mm, which is closer to the "magic" focal length of 40mm. Either way, it'll give you way more spread than the 80mm that you're probably shooting with your nifty fifty.

Just my $0.02.

ScottMcLeod · November 23, 2005

HeldDown wrote:

What was it you said, Scott? 1/90s ISO800 f/2.8 with the Tamron? In a similar lighting situation to what you're facing, BBones; maybe a little lighter. To be honest, I think you'd probably have to push it down to 1/60 or even 1/40 to get the exposure you need in that environment. I've been looking at the Sigma 28mm 1.8; works out to 45mm cropped, and seems to be decently sharp. As I recall, it's less than $300 AMR. ($225 at S4L it seems.) For another 60 bucks you can get the 24mm, which takes you to 38mm, which is closer to the "magic" focal length of 40mm. Either way, it'll give you way more spread than the 80mm that you're probably shooting with your nifty fifty.

Just my $0.02.

Yeah, but remember, I've done shoots at 5ive and Buddies in Bad Times, as well as Silk and System Soundbar with my kit lens in low light.

To be perfectly honest, 800ISO and a very small flash w/ diffuse and a slow exposure that's balanced to the ambience of the club will give you not only face exposure, but also the lighting and effects.

I agree with the suggestion of the 28mm f/1.8, but I think i'd go as far as suggesting the 20mm f/1.8 instead, since you already have the 50.

gtc · November 23, 2005

infrared or noctilux f1.0
another way of approaching it is to use an infrared flash but that may require you to modify your camera

a 2.8 macro will let you get really close however unfortunately macros dont come much faster

shooting wide ,in a dark room, without a flash AND cheaply?

its a big ask-the other way to go would be to go(dare i say it in here) film- a leica or a voigtlander with a 40mm/f1.0 noctiluxand iso 800 film-wide and fast but also buck$, but the only lens i know that would do it for you.

good luck

BBones wrote:

Ok, I am using the 20d with the 50 1.8 now and I am noticing that the 50 is a bit too much in the zoomed in department to get the closer shots (clubs get busy) or the wider angle "friend shots". What prime lens would you recommend that can give me the same high detail/low light ability? I had considered the 24-70 L 2.8 but I think 2.8 is not enough for letting club lighting (Lasers/ strobe effects) in since I have tried using the 50mm at 2.8 and was forced to use the flash to get the shadows off people.

gtc · November 23, 2005

24/1.4
or-Canon, 24mm f1.4 SSC Aspherical FD w/caps, in case. Uncommon!! #10xxx (9)

$849r Canon, 24mm f1.4 SSC Aspherical FD w/caps, in case. Uncommon!! #10xxx (9)

$849
at rizcam

its an fd mount but there may be an adapter at cameraquest

gtc wrote:

another way of approaching it is to use an infrared flash but that may require you to modify your camera

a 2.8 macro will let you get really close however unfortunately macros dont come much faster

shooting wide ,in a dark room, without a flash AND cheaply?

its a big ask-the other way to go would be to go(dare i say it in here) film- a leica or a voigtlander with a 40mm/f1.0 noctiluxand iso 800 film-wide and fast but also buck$, but the only lens i know that would do it for you.

good luck

ScottMcLeod · November 23, 2005

gtc wrote:

or-Canon, 24mm f1.4 SSC Aspherical FD w/caps, in case. Uncommon!! #10xxx (9)$849r Canon, 24mm f1.4 SSC Aspherical FD w/caps, in case. Uncommon!! #10xxx (9)$849
at rizcam

its an fd mount but there may be an adapter at cameraquest

FD lenses on EOS bodies are just asking for trouble.

Not only does the adapter cause a multiplier (1.25x I think), but you also lose a stop.

So now, that 24mm f/1.4 is now a 24 x 1.25 x 1.6 = 50mm 1.8, which he already has... in autofocus.

Honestly Bbones, go to some of the bigger clubs and look at what the pros are using:

I commonly see:

@Lucid I saw - 20D/1Ds w/ 16-35 f/2.8 and a 580EX flash.

Alternatively, a 350D with a 17-40 (or hell, even 18-55, or 17-85) and a 430EX or similar.

HeldDown · November 23, 2005

The issue here is Bones has said he doesn't want to use a flash; I'm thinking that without it, 2.8's probably not fast enough.

ScottMcLeod · November 23, 2005

HeldDown wrote:

The issue here is Bones has said he doesn't want to use a flash; I'm thinking that without it, 2.8's probably not fast enough.

I still think that he'd have a better investment with a zoom and higher ISO, rather than primes.

I counter your suggestions with the 30mm f/1.4!

King to King's level 3, Your move!

gtc · November 24, 2005

not sure about the FD registration issues you mention but need to correct something-he has a 50mm which crops to 80-85mm equivalent

i was looking for some fast wides which with crop factor bring him up to a fast 50mm equivalent

as money is an issue then a manual focus is a cost effective solution

he may also want look at contax zeiss distagon,zeiss jena distagon and all the other fast wides from the 60's and 70's

i would search for ritz collectible,keh and pacific rim camera-all carry a large range of quality lenses

ScottMcLeod wrote:

FD lenses on EOS bodies are just asking for trouble.

Not only does the adapter cause a multiplier (1.25x I think), but you also lose a stop.

So now, that 24mm f/1.4 is now a 24 x 1.25 x 1.6 = 50mm 1.8, which he already has... in autofocus.

Honestly Bbones, go to some of the bigger clubs and look at what the pros are using:

I commonly see:

@Lucid I saw - 20D/1Ds w/ 16-35 f/2.8 and a 580EX flash.

Alternatively, a 350D with a 17-40 (or hell, even 18-55, or 17-85) and a 430EX or similar.

BenA2 · November 24, 2005

Second

ScottMcLeod wrote:

I counter your suggestions with the 30mm f/1.4!

King to King's level 3, Your move!

I second the recomendation of the 30mm f/1.4 on a 1.6 crop. Once you learn to focus that baby, it's one sweet, fast piece of glass for the extremely low price. It's the only way to go in no-flash, low-light, indoor photography.

Ben

ian408 · November 24, 2005

Or you could bust out the Visa® for a 5d--full frame

Ian

BBones · November 28, 2005

Correct, I don't want to use flash, I have used my 580ex and sometimes I cover the flash or aim it away so I can use the redlight finder off the flash to speed up the searching that the 50 1.8 does. Yup it is a slow lens when it is trying to find something in the dark. But I can hit some really good stuff pretty regularly with it (see the club pictures I have already done here: http://studio819.smugmug.com/Events )

I think I may have to go to the 28mm 1.8. The problem I have most often at the clubs is when someone taps me to take a picture of them and it is on a busy dance floor so I can't move backward. The reason I would prefer to stay with the prime lenses is I figured would add some sharpness to counteract the high (1600 to H) ISO I need to use to preserve the colors that the club owners keep coming back to me for. They are tired of the people walking around with big flashes and strobing everyone for a picture that is just a glorified P&S shot.

Thanks for the input so far guys, this helps a lot.

Lowlight clubs shots

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