6d ll. Vs 5 d lll. Indoor sports ?

jmp2204jmp2204 Major grinsPosts: 197Registered Users Major grins

Currently use a 70d. For a few years now. Never really happy with the auto focus Never no what your getting. Wondering which way to go for quality/speec. Current lenses 70-200 non is. 24-105 L

Comments

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Still learnin'still lovin Posts: 20,105Super Moderators moderator
    edited December 21, 2017

    Choosing between these two cameras, the Canon EOS 6D Mark II and the Canon EOS 5D Mark III, for indoor sports is rather easy. Only one of these is designed as a "Sports/Action" camera; the 5D Mark III.

    The reason? While the 5D Mark III inherits its AF module from the flagship Canon 1DX, the 6D Mark II inherits its AF module from the Canon 80D.
    (Don't misunderstand the 5D Mark III AF to be the same and equivalent to the 1DX AF; it is not. The 1DX has 3 - image processors; a ‎DIGIC 4‎ and dual DIGIC 5+, while the 5D Mark III has a single ‎DIGIC 5+ processor. The image processor takes the information from the AF section, interprets that information, then issues the proper AF steering information to the AF motor in the lens. The greater image processor "horsepower" of the 1DX allows faster AF acquisition and greater AF precision vs the 5D Mark III or 6D Mark II. Still, the 5D Mark III AF is not bad for sports/action photography.)

    I suggest that only your Canon EF 70-200mm, f2.8L USM is capable of indoor sports. The EF 24-105mm, f4L IS USM is slower (f4 is half the light transmission of f2.8) and I don't believe that the USM motor is the same torque and speed for both lenses.

    You don't mention which AF program you are using but for many/most sports AI Servo AF works best because it is a "Predictive" autofocus. It takes time for the AF module to capture and send the AF information to the image processor/processors, and then a bit more time for the image processor/processors to interpret and send the appropriate AF steering to the lens. One-Shot AF takes a single sample for the AF, which works best for static subjects, while AI Servo AF constantly samples for subject distance (as long as you do your job and properly track the subject motion) and then, when you press the shutter button the AI Servo AF "Predicts" where the lens should go for proper focus.

    Indoor lighting is a serious problem for indoor sports photography. You may have noticed that exposure often varies under indoor sports arenas? That's because many indoor lighting systems oscillate at line frequency; 60 cycles. This also wreaks havoc with the AF module because it is also a CMOS imager, albeit specialized for the task of determining distance to subject. Nevertheless, fluctuating light is not good for AF acquisition. Some modern cameras even have a mode to detect and time the camera for lighting flicker, but alas it does not work well for fast action sports indoors or outdoors (night lighting).

    Part of your solution is to shoot more, which should yield a good crop of "keepers".

    So, to summarize:

    • Yes, the Canon EOS 5D Mark III makes a great upgrade to your Canon 70D.
    • Yes, the Canon EF 70-200mm, f2.8L USM is capable of indoor sports. (The EF 24-105mm, f4L IS USM being less capable.)
    • Yes, use AI Servo when appropriate, tracking the subject in the viewfinder.
    • Yes, take more images when dealing with 60hz lighting (or any flickering light source).
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • jmp2204jmp2204 Major grins Posts: 197Registered Users Major grins

    Thanks , yes i do other things as well , wildlife , summer sports people.....but the most challenging is hockey ..... buy i cannot rely on the 70d auto focus at all (i use AI servo) just wanted to make sure which way to go 5D iii sounds like the direction

  • WoodButch4WoodButch4 Beginner grinner Posts: 20Registered Users Big grins

    Well, since you mention wildlife and summer sports, I'd actually suggest staying crop sensor and go with a 7d mark II. Faster frame rate, very good autofocus system, and still the length advantage of a crop sensor.

  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter western IndianaPosts: 14,325Super Moderators moderator
    edited January 6, 2018

    I want to suggest considering the 7D Mk II also...

    The Canon 7D Mk II has been a superb tool for me for wildlife. I usually carry it and a 1DX or the newer 1DX MKII, and I still find the 7D Mk II files very useable and the AF very effective. Not 1DX fast, but very close.

    I know that the crop sensor files should not fair well against the full frame 1 series cameras, but I find at most sizes, and on the web, it is hard to tell which is which without looking at my EXIF data in LightRoom.

    The 7D MK II will be cheaper to purchase as well.

    It does offer the ability to time the shutter to the 60cycle line cycle with fluorescent lights in the the gyms too - if that matters to you. It should help keep the color temp more consistent from frame to frame.

    Files should be quite useable up to ISO 3200, and some at ISO 6400

    This grizzly was captured, handheld, with a 7D Mk II at ISO 6400, 1/1000th at f5.6 I found bears soft and fuzzy, and thus the AF system struggled a bit in lower light. Does this quality meet your standards ?

    You might want to get the AF system on you 70D checked too - I have shot a lot of birds in flight, arctic terns, with my 70D a couple years ago. I found the AF pretty effective for that purpose. Like this one with a 70D at 1/2000th, f 5.6 at ISO 160 with a Canon 70-300 IS L on a pretty heavy overcast day on the northern shore of Norway

    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • kdogkdog artistically challenged San Jose, CAPosts: 11,279Administrators moderator
    edited January 6, 2018

    @pathfinder said:
    I want to suggest considering the 7D Mk II also...

    That was my immediate thought as well. There are two reasons why this may be a better sports body for you: Crop factor and burst rate.

    Consider that the crop factor on your 70D has effectively turned your 70-200 f/2.8 into an incredible 112-320mm f/2.8 zoom. Whereas on a full-frame body, to get that much reach on the long end, you'd be looking at the Canon 300 f2.8 lens at a cool $6,000. And it's not even a zoom, so your ability to cover field sports with a single body would be greatly limited even after paying all that money. Another way of looking at it is that the reach you have today at 200mm will look like 125mm when you put it on a 5D . This will greatly limit your reach on the field. So you end up using slower glass to get back the reach on the full frame which defeats the purpose of using the larger sensor.

    Burst rate is the other factor that's quite useful for sports photographers. The burst rate of the 5D MKIII is 6 fps, with a buffer depth of 7 images. Whereas with the 7DMKII you get a burst rate of almost double that, 10 fps, with a buffer depth of 26 frames. Huge difference. Now you may be the rare photographer that can nail the timing on a critical shot every time. But even then it's really nice to get a sequence of images of some critical action, almost like a little movie clip. You'll get twice as many shots per second and 2.5 seconds on the 7D as opposed to the 5D, not to mention being able to capture a burst that's 2.5x as long. And that really makes a difference. At least for me it does.

    I have both 5DMKIII and MKIV bodies, and still wouldn't be without my 7DMKII for sports and wildlife.

  • puzzledpaulpuzzledpaul low down bum Posts: 1,613Registered Users Major grins

    Another vote for considering a 7Dm2.
    Not interested in sport snapping (of any sort), but I've been using a 7Dm2 for a couple of yrs now - for wildlife.
    Never used a 1Dx, / 5Dm3/4 so can't compare ... but ... for a lot of what I do, the crop factor loss would be a big consideration.
    For many situations I'd probably be adding a 1.4x ... and obviously be losing a stop +

    pp

  • Brett1000Brett1000 Major grins https://www.flickr.com/photos/photoscw/Posts: 813Registered Users Major grins

    I'd choose a full frame for indoor sports - but the choice of lens is also important
    5D3 - used 5D4 - used 1DX etc

  • compasiune11compasiune11 Beginner grinner romaniaPosts: 26Registered Users Big grins

    I think you should consider Canon Dd mark II, it's better in every aspect + the flip screen is the big bonus here with the dual pixel af.

    Fotograf Nunta | Albume fotocarte
    Canon 6D | Canon EF 35 f1.4 L II | Canon 24-70 f2.8 L II | Canon 70-200 f2.8 L II IS | Canon 16-35 f4 L IS
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