P, Av, Tv or Manual - Event photography

mkpatil · March 20, 2006

For Event Photography (say a award ceremony) where you are taking one picture every 20 seconds, can you use Manual (M) Exposure with FLASH? Or please explain the best technique. I generally use 'P' with the flash for such events, but I am sure I have to learn something.

thanks...

wxwax · March 20, 2006

mk, looks like you're struggling. I deleted your two identical threads.

Need a hand?

mkpatil · March 20, 2006

wxwax wrote:

mk, looks like you're struggling. I deleted your two identical threads.

Need a hand?

Clarification: I have seen lot of articles about exposure, but most of them are using the continous ambient light and without Flash. What I am requesting is, if we 'have to' use the FLASH, what would be the best option in terms of exposure (P, Av, Tv or Manual) at events. Here we may have just 5 to 20 seconds between each picture and stage is not evenly lit, some subjects are under say a recessed light and the next one would be in a darker area between two recessed light.
Thanks...

Shay Stephens · March 20, 2006

mkpatil wrote:

For Event Photography (say a award ceremony) where you are taking one picture every 20 seconds, can you use Manual (M) Exposure with FLASH? Or please explain the best technique. I generally use 'P' with the flash for such events, but I am sure I have to learn something.

thanks...

Are you having difficulties that 'P' mode is not solving? What is the problem you are having?

mkpatil · March 20, 2006

Shay Stephens wrote:

Are you having difficulties that 'P' mode is not solving? What is the problem you are having?

Actually the problem is P mostly keeps the Depth of field (DOF) lowest or the aperture at 3.5 or 4.00 or lower. This is a blessing for most of us, but if you have the subject receiving an award from someone and a president (example) stitting on the stage about 15 feet behind watching this, the subject would treasure the picture only if both he and the president are in complete focus.

Since I have to use the flash, are Av, Tv and Manual options, and any special things to consider. Did I mention I need to use the flash?

Thanks...

Shay Stephens · March 20, 2006

In your situation, I would use manual mode. Aperture priority would also work, but you risk having a slow shutter speed at times unless your ISO is high enough. So I would think manual mode would cut down on the uncertainties and variable nature of auto mode.

mkpatil wrote:

Actually the problem is P mostly keeps the Depth of field (DOF) lowest or the aperture at 3.5 or 4.00 or lower. This is a blessing for most of us, but if you have the subject receiving an award from someone and a president (example) stitting on the stage about 15 feet behind watching this, the subject would treasure the picture only if both he and the president are in complete focus.

Since I have to use the flash, are Av, Tv and Manual options, and any special things to consider. Did I mention I need to use the flash?

Thanks...

mkpatil · March 20, 2006

Shay Stephens wrote:

In your situation, I would use manual mode. Aperture priority would also work, but you risk having a slow shutter speed at times unless your ISO is high enough. So I would think manual mode would cut down on the uncertainties and variable nature of auto mode.

Thanks for the reply; I still need to get some clarifications. In 'P' mode the camera, calculated the parameters (aperture, speed, etc so that the Flash does not over expose the picture, right?) But my question is if I use the Manual mode and set the aperture to say 6, and looking on the exposure meter inside the view finder (the one which tells us if we are over exposing or under exposing the picture) and I manually adjust the speed to say 1/60, until the exposure lines up with the zero. This measurement is based on the ambient light at that instant. But again I am using the FLASH so the picture will actually be completely washed out or just plane white, right? What am I missing here? How will I tell the exposure meter inside the camera that this is a manual mode, but please give me the readings taking in consideration that a flash will get fired when I take the picture?

Thanks...

Shay Stephens · March 20, 2006

Aperture controls the exposure of the flash output and the shutter speed controls the ambient light exposure. So if your flash is set to full power (guessing) and your aperture is set to f/6.3 and the image looks good, then you can adjust the shutter speed to let in more or less ambient light to suit your taste and needs to control motion blur.

You just need to be mindful that there is a sync speed on slr's that you can't go too much faster with. If your camera has a sync speed of 1/250 of a second, then that is your fastest speed and you will have to control the ambient light with the ISO or aperture.

It can be a little bit of a balancing act, but you can start by metering the scene with ambient light, set the exposure to one stop darker than usual, then add your flash to bring up the rest. Balance the two to your liking and away you go.

When I am setting up for a shoot like this, I will set up my lights and use a flash meter on stage to dial everything in properly. If you find yourself doing a lot of flash work, a flash meter can be indispensable.

mkpatil wrote:

Thanks for the reply; I still need to get some clarifications. In 'P' mode the camera, calculated the parameters (aperture, speed, etc so that the Flash does not over expose the picture, right?) But my question is if I use the Manual mode and set the aperture to say 6, and looking on the exposure meter inside the view finder (the one which tells us if we are over exposing or under exposing the picture) and I manually adjust the speed to say 1/60, until the exposure lines up with the zero. This measurement is based on the ambient light at that instant. But again I am using the FLASH so the picture will actually be completely washed out or just plane white, right? What am I missing here? How will I tell the exposure meter inside the camera that this is a manual mode, but please give me the readings taking in consideration that a flash will get fired when I take the picture?

Thanks...

wxwax · March 20, 2006

Shay Stephens wrote:

It can be a little bit of a balancing act, but you can start by metering the scene with ambient light, set the exposure to one stop darker than usual, then add your flash to bring up the rest. Balance the two to your liking and away you go.

Cool tip!

mkpatil · March 20, 2006

Shay,
It is making sense now, I am going to try it out. Thanks for the explaination.
Thanks...

Bodley · March 20, 2006

Another Flash Question
Flash clarification when using Canon body capable of ETTLII w/ 580ex.

If I set my camera in manual mode and the flash to ETTL doesn't the camera set the flash for proper exposure?

When in Av and Tv mode and the flash set to ETTL the camera uses the flash for fill. What does it use to set the flash level?

Thanks,

Shay Stephens · March 20, 2006

I'm just a caveman...
I shoot manual flash, so someone else will have to answer the ABC-TTL-XVII w/nucleo-bright flash questions

or whatever the latest stuff is these days hahaha

Bodley wrote:

Flash clarification when using Canon body capable of ETTLII w/ 580ex.

If I set my camera in manual mode and the flash to ETTL doesn't the camera set the flash for proper exposure?

When in Av and Tv mode and the flash set to ETTL the camera uses the flash for fill. What does it use to set the flash level?

Thanks,

Bodley · March 20, 2006

Shay Stephens wrote:

I shoot manual flash, so someone else will have to answer the ABC-TTL-XVII w/nucleo-bright flash questions or whatever the latest stuff is these days hahaha

Well you've got me shooting manual everywhere else (and I think my work has improved) but the flash thing on manual in changing environment (distances, lighting etc...) has me a bit confused. Any tips or just Practice-Practice-Practice

Shay Stephens · March 20, 2006

Well, that is a tough one. When I am shooting in an environment, I try to control the lighting so that I can roam about freely. If the space is too large to allow that, then I have to mentally split the room into zones, and change my exposure (ISO or aperture) accordingly when I shoot that zone.

Here is an example where the room was large, I set the lighting to give an exposure for the dance floor which was in the center of the room:

Zone 3 ISO 800, zone 2 ISO 400, zone 1 ISO 200

Now mind you this is with me using off camera flash, if the flash is on the camera and you are moving about, then I think some auto-flash may be useful, but don't ask me how to do it

i'm just a caveman hehehe.

Bodley wrote:

Well you've got me shooting manual everywhere else (and I think my work has improved) but the flash thing on manual in changing environment (distances, lighting etc...) has me a bit confused. Any tips or just Practice-Practice-Practice

Jeffro · March 20, 2006

mkpatil wrote:

For Event Photography (say a award ceremony) where you are taking one picture every 20 seconds, can you use Manual (M) Exposure with FLASH? Or please explain the best technique. I generally use 'P' with the flash for such events, but I am sure I have to learn something.

thanks...

What equipment are you using, or did I miss that?

wxwax · March 20, 2006

Shay Stephens wrote:

Hey look, David, the Zone System!

Jeffro · March 20, 2006

In difficult indoor shots, with my 20D and 550EX, I can set the aperature to F8, the shutter speed to 1/250th, and leave the flash on E-TTL and the flash does the rest. Works pretty slick.

mercphoto · March 21, 2006

Bodley wrote:

Flash clarification when using Canon body capable of ETTLII w/ 580ex.

If I set my camera in manual mode and the flash to ETTL doesn't the camera set the flash for proper exposure?

It sets a proper exposure for the SUBJECT of the photo. But a flash cannot properly illuminate an entire scene (especially if that scene has objects at varying distances - physics intervenes here). So what you do is shoot Manual, choose an aperture, shutter speed and ISO so that your background is not too awfully underexposed, then put the flash on ETTL to get the subject properly exposed.

By the way, one tip I learned for indoor shooting is to use shutter speeds of either 1/60 or 1/125. I seldom use anything else. The reason being is that these shutter speeds help tremendously with getting accurate color balances. The reason for that is they mesh with the AC line current frequency of 60 Hz. (1/125 is twice as fast, but the sine wave is symetrical so it still works). Some lights have consistent and unchanging color, but some don't.

ExposeTheMoment · March 22, 2006

What lens are you using?

mkpatil · March 22, 2006

ExposeTheMoment wrote:

What lens are you using?

If the question is for me, I am using a 10 year old Canon 35-350 Ultrasonic USD lens.

P, Av, Tv or Manual - Event photography

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