I guess I'm a Sports Photographer?!

johno · April 25, 2006

I never set out and planned to make money by selling my photos. I did choose the Pro account because if offers more freedom and control. (I like that.) Recently, a friend, who is a part owner of a local amateur football team, asked me to take some pics of the games; now the team players are buying game photos! WOW!

I am learning A LOT and have not posted here for a long time. In part I feel an intimidation owning a 20D and swinging with the "Big Dogs." I am trying to overcome.

So, I thought I would step up and share some sport pics I've taken. Comments are welcome as I am VERY new to sports photography.

I have seen the post here on DG for pro beginners asking what to charge. I know my skill and I don't charge much. A fellow dgrinner says I don't charge enough. I'm looking at this year as a beginning/learning year. If anyone has any links or info on sports photography and what they charge, I would love to hear about it.

Finally,

I would like to say, If you have not signed up for a Smugmug account yet, do so. You will never regret it. They will do every they can to make you look good. They reprinted a set of shots for me and made me look great to one of the players. Thanks Andy and Smugmug Team.:thumb

peace.
johno~

ginger_55 · April 25, 2006

Congrats on selling photos, Johno!

I can't see them, they are just red Xs, you need to turn on the thing.....well, the thing, don't know what they call it right now!

If you are getting money, well, I would keep charging what you are charging. It depends on the area, etc.

I have been burned at asking for too much, like just some money, please, but I really have.............so I would build slowly with your loyal base. Then when you charge more they will stick with you.

That is my opinion.

Please turn on your linky thingy, so that I can see the photos tomorrow when I wake up.

ginger

johno · April 25, 2006

fixed?

StevenV · April 25, 2006

>I guess I'm a Sports Photographer?!

true, but it's not something to be ashamed of

DJ-S1 · April 25, 2006

Congrats! Good stuff, looks like fun, too.

My only comment would be to get closer and get faces. You can always crop to focus attention on the action in the shot. For example, I think #3 and #4 could benefit from losing the empty left side of the frame.

mercphoto · April 25, 2006

It's always fun when people buy your photos, right?

Cool pics!

You got some nice faces, which is hard in football, and some nice action. Your timing looks pretty good and the exposures look good. My only advice, and take this from a person who only briefly did football and wasn't very successful at it (i.e. feel free to toss my advice!), is to crop some of the photos. Photos 1 and 2 are good as-is, but photos 3 and 4 could both benefit from cropping out some of the unecessary elements, particularly on the left. The mantra with the football photographers seems to be "tight is right". So get as tight as you can with the lens, and crop tighter when necessary in Photoshop.

FWIW.

jrglass · April 25, 2006

If you have the lens to do it, go for less depth of field. The busy backgrounds could be taken care with less DOF. Keep working!!!

mercphoto wrote:

It's always fun when people buy your photos, right?

Cool pics! You got some nice faces, which is hard in football, and some nice action. Your timing looks pretty good and the exposures look good. My only advice, and take this from a person who only briefly did football and wasn't very successful at it (i.e. feel free to toss my advice!), is to crop some of the photos. Photos 1 and 2 are good as-is, but photos 3 and 4 could both benefit from cropping out some of the unecessary elements, particularly on the left. The mantra with the football photographers seems to be "tight is right". So get as tight as you can with the lens, and crop tighter when necessary in Photoshop.

FWIW.

johno · April 25, 2006

"Tight is Right" Good advice all. I read a brief article in PopPhoto Mag last month called "shoot like a pro." It gave advice from Seattle Seahawks pro guy. He said to shoot in M jpg because you could shoot more pics and still get a good 8x10. I took that advice, however, it leaves little room for a crop, so I think I'm going back to L jpg so I have more room to crop without ending up with poor quality.

As far as getting closer... I would love to. Right now I am shooting with Canons 70-200 f4 L. Great lens, but not in the dark. I have had to bump the iso to 800, 1600 and 3200 as it got darker.

In the end, I'm having fun.

Again, thanks for the help everyone.

peace.
johno~

winger · April 25, 2006

Welcome to the daunting world of sports photograhpy. Its a tough market to make money in because just about everyone one will be willing to show up onto the sidelines with their camera and give their photos away.

Last year was my first year really shooting sports, I didnt get paid alot but to most of the professionals I ran into, they were like "please just get paid". I was in the same boat as you, I didnt feel it was right to charge alot because I was still learning.

But about your photos a couple of things I will point out that if you keep in mind I bet you will start to see even better photos

The first photo is pretty good nice action, great colors, i proable would crop it tighter.

The next two photos, there is just alot of empty space in the photos. Which I guess depending on who is buying and for what purpose may suit their needs. Which is important when you are shooting, who is buying and how are they going to use it. For the most part when I shoot i think of sort of the media guide market and newspapers outlets......but if you think about it someone could use a photo as a background to an advertisement, wallpaper, whatever and they may WANT the space. So think about your audience

The 4th photo, nice just crop it tighter

the 5th photo, this is a nice shoot of the sidelines, stuff that sometimes other photograhpers miss, you know the other stuff that deals with sports, the side lines, the refs, the coachs....its all part of the story.

the 6th photos, this is great, I would crop it down around the center, but great capture in the intensitiy in the centers eyes.

Other things to think about when shooting
1) backgrounds, nothing ruins a great capture more than a distracting background. One easy way to clean up backgrounds in sports, either take a knee or find a higher vantage point.
2) FACES, FACES FACES
faces tell the story.

Those are the two big ones.

Hope this is helpful....that being said off to catch lax before it rains.

johno · April 26, 2006

Thanks winger. Great advice. After I posted these shots, one of the owners called me to say, "WOW! These shots are great!" Since he is a good friend of mine, I thought he was joking... He wasn't.

So far, I've made 63 orders. Most of them are 4x6 prints, but a few are larger.:D

Anyhow, the great thing about this, is where the profits go.

Many of you remember Samuel. HERE'S an overview of Samuels story and another one HERE.

He is a young man that should have died at a young age if not for the help of a local missionary and friend of mine Jeff Cash. Jeff found the financial help for Samuel which allowed him to have his leg amputated, saving his life.

This last year, Samuel, scored in the top 5% of his district in Uganda. This allows him to attend a private University. However, Samuel lives in a poor fishing community on the edge of Lake Edward. How could he afford it?

So, I though I could help with anything. Samuel's tuition is $350 a quarter and there are 3 quarters per school year. His other fees are around $50 to $100 dollars per quarter.

Since I've started taking pics and telling the amazing story of Sam, I met a man who's wife passed away last year and was an educator. A memorial fund was set up in her name and he is going to write a check for one full year of Samuel's fees. That PLUS the extra bit I have raised. It's so AWESOME!

I know, it's a drop in the bucket, but at least the bucket is not empty anymore.

peace.
johno~

Onrey · April 26, 2006

Johno,
Very nice photos! I agree with everyone else, shoot tight crop tight, faces faces faces and you may see even better sales, also learn who the playmakers are and focus slightly more on them, but dont forget the others entirely.

As for priceing, heres my .02, Your selling and thats great, everyone has a starting point as far as $$ goes. Price slightly above what you actually think your worth becouse next year it will be more difficult to raise your prices accordingly. I'm a prime example for instance, last year I started selling but thought "I'll charge less and build up my clientel" WRONG IDEA. This year I raised my prices by more than half from last year, some by 75%. I have lost some sales from customers from last year, BUT have picked up alot of new clients and have made more money. Everytime we go out we get better at what we do , so changes in pricing should be reflected. Dont get me wrong, I do contribute significant $$ to the local programs(that my kids used to be in, as fund raisers) and also provide photos to the parents/kids who cant afford them. I dont mind it and I dont take a big hit in the pocket book, I believe "What goes around comes around". I guess my main point is please dont underestimate your skill/talent and what its worth.

Also the Samuel story and what your doing to help him is
COOL BEANS MAN COOL BEANS

Jeffro · April 26, 2006

johno wrote:

I never set out and planned to make money by selling my photos. I did choose the Pro account because if offers more freedom and control. (I like that.) Recently, a friend, who is a part owner of a local amateur football team, asked me to take some pics of the games; now the team players are buying game photos! WOW!

I am learning A LOT and have not posted here for a long time. In part I feel an intimidation owning a 20D and swinging with the "Big Dogs." I am trying to overcome.

So, I thought I would step up and share some sport pics I've taken. Comments are welcome as I am VERY new to sports photography.

I have seen the post here on DG for pro beginners asking what to charge. I know my skill and I don't charge much. A fellow dgrinner says I don't charge enough. I'm looking at this year as a beginning/learning year. If anyone has any links or info on sports photography and what they charge, I would love to hear about it.

Finally, I would like to say, If you have not signed up for a Smugmug account yet, do so. You will never regret it. They will do every they can to make you look good. They reprinted a set of shots for me and made me look great to one of the players. Thanks Andy and Smugmug Team.

peace.
johno~

I started my website because riders at the local mx track kept asking me if I had a site, when they saw me taking pictures of my frineds. After a year and a half of this I decided what the heck.

When it came to pricing I too was wondering about prices, too much, too little? I looked at other sites, established pro's and guys like myself...noobies. I didn't want to sell, just because my prices were super low, so I didn't undercut anyone.

I started out having to charge more, because I had to send the pics to a lab, get them back, check them, mail them....cha-ching. Now since I've found Smug I have been able to keep my profit margin the same, and actually lower my prices a little, but still be in the same ballpark as other guys doing the same thing. Going too low, just hurts us all!

I looked at your gallery, and prices, you're pretty close to what I have, but I'd say you could still go a little higher on some of the print sizes. In the end I guess it is up to you.

Now that I'm in my second full year things are only getting better.:D

You can check my site for my prices and such...

trihokie · April 28, 2006

winger wrote:

Welcome to the daunting world of sports photograhpy. Its a tough market to make money in because just about everyone one will be willing to show up onto the sidelines with their camera and give their photos away.

I have found that by shooting night games, us more serious pro-wannabes can seperate ourselves from the pack. Every mom and pop with a "point and shoot" can get good snapshots in bright daylight. But if you want to get good shots at night, you have to be willing to invest in fast glass. Night shots in a well lit stadium also seperate the subject from the background, almost like a studio shoot.

football: http://trihokie.smugmug.com/gallery/940227
soccer: http://trihokie.smugmug.com/gallery/1009604

I shot high school football and soccer at the local stadium this past season and did quite well selling to the parents. My prices are in line with yours, and I have been criticized for charging too little. I used to charge more and I have found that by lowering my prices I get more sales per customer and I actually end up making more money from each customer, and the customer ends up with more photos. And isn't that what it is all about?