50k warning/Took a shot at photographing a dance recital

mereimage · May 8, 2006

It was a tough shoot, very difficult conditions-no flash allowed. The stage was very dark and the dancers were intermitantly lit by focal/directional stage lights with gelitan filters and the back drop Illuminated from behind creating very weird and constantly varying color casts. The lighting was very contrasty and the dancers were moving in and out of different colored spots. Didn't really go planning to shoot-my fastest lens was f2.8. Eval. meter mode created unreliable results. Switched to spot metering -but this meant you had to keep it right on moving targets. Shot at iso 1600 and 3200. Would have liked to have used a tripod but didn't have it with me as I was out of town and was doing this on the spur of the moment. Shot all in RAW format. Some framed and all processed with Noise Ninja, shot with 1Dm2 and Canon 70-200/2.8 IS.
From Culver Acadamies Dance Vision:

These were my favorites-would like to have had access to a dress rehearsal and tried rear curtain flash toreally show motion but with a sharply focused dancer................Thanks for veiwing........Mereimage

sthig · May 8, 2006

those are unbelievably awesome.

I really like #2

cambler · May 8, 2006

With the exception of the noise in a few of them (backgrounds), I think you hit it spot on. In situations like this, I like to ignore the metering, really. Pump the ISO, drop the aperture to f/2.8 and use the slowest shutter that will allow me to capture what I need to, and go from there.

One benefit, that you captured, is that f/2.8 is going to give you some breathtaking depth effects. There's a portfolio piece up there, no question about it.

Now... be honest... isn't the IS (or VR, in the case of Nikon) worthless? It sucks battery, and unless you're so amped-up on caffeine that you can't sit still, what's the point? You're not shooting from a helicopter and you're not running down the sidelines, so there's no vibration to cancel in the first place!

mereimage · May 8, 2006

sthig wrote:

those are unbelievably awesome.

I really like #2

Thank you-she is more of a gymnast in build than a dancer, but she was quite a preformer.........................Mereimage

mereimage · May 8, 2006

cambler wrote:

With the exception of the noise in a few of them (backgrounds), I think you hit it spot on. In situations like this, I like to ignore the metering, really. Pump the ISO, drop the aperture to f/2.8 and use the slowest shutter that will allow me to capture what I need to, and go from there.

One benefit, that you captured, is that f/2.8 is going to give you some breathtaking depth effects. There's a portfolio piece up there, no question about it.

Now... be honest... isn't the IS (or VR, in the case of Nikon) worthless? It sucks battery, and unless you're so amped-up on caffeine that you can't sit still, what's the point? You're not shooting from a helicopter and you're not running down the sidelines, so there's no vibration to cancel in the first place!

I find the IS quite helpful-both to control blur from holding a long heavy camera and lens combo for a couple of hours and my own inherent tremor, also as the lens gets longer any shake is magnified. It also allows hand holding 2 stops below what you could shoot at otherwise-and I do a lot of family photogrphy indoors in low light without flash. `With shorter focal lengths its less needed. I love the 70-200 IS- the IS is worth every cent it costs-definitely saves shots. If I was a young stud I might not feel the need for it or if I had a sherpa to carry it and all I had to do was press the remote

. Mereimage

Art Scott · May 8, 2006

These are really great...where did you shoot them??

I missed the ACDF and have been really depressed about it.

ScottMcLeod · May 8, 2006

cambler wrote:

With the exception of the noise in a few of them (backgrounds), I think you hit it spot on. In situations like this, I like to ignore the metering, really. Pump the ISO, drop the aperture to f/2.8 and use the slowest shutter that will allow me to capture what I need to, and go from there.

That's pretty much the key to capturing dance photography.

Also, a definite need to take a moment and absorb the choreography so your photography becomes as organic (or not-so) as the feel of the dance.

cambler · May 8, 2006

ScottMcLeod wrote:

That's pretty much the key to capturing dance photography.

Also, a definite need to take a moment and absorb the choreography so your photography becomes as organic (or not-so) as the feel of the dance.

Agreed. For the cheerleading competitions I shoot, I like to watch the practices a few times to get an idea of the routine, so I know where the major stunts and dance moves are.

mereimage · May 8, 2006

Art Scott wrote:

These are really great...where did you shoot them??

I missed the ACDF and have been really depressed about it.

?ACDF

These were shot in Epply Auditorium at Culver Acad. in northern Indiana about 30 miles south of Notre Dame (in So. Bend In.) in Culver Indiana. Its a private college prep. boarding school on Lake Maxinkuckee. Famed for its Black Horse Troop which is a perenial in the Pres. Inaugural Parade. : http://www.culver.org/culver_tour/0419-717.html

................Mereimage

ScottMcLeod · May 9, 2006

cambler wrote:

Agreed. For the cheerleading competitions I shoot, I like to watch the practices a few times to get an idea of the routine, so I know where the major stunts and dance moves are.

I enjoy shooting a dance piece that i've never seen before, but it takes ALL of my concentration to absorb the choreographic intent, while shooting and applying it to my technique.

Nikolai · May 9, 2006

Awesome work!
Captures are fantastic!

And I really like how you did the mattes:-) Very cool!

Malte · May 9, 2006

cambler wrote:

With the exception of the noise in a few of them (backgrounds), I think you hit it spot on. In situations like this, I like to ignore the metering, really. Pump the ISO, drop the aperture to f/2.8 and use the slowest shutter that will allow me to capture what I need to, and go from there.

One benefit, that you captured, is that f/2.8 is going to give you some breathtaking depth effects. There's a portfolio piece up there, no question about it.

Now... be honest... isn't the IS (or VR, in the case of Nikon) worthless? It sucks battery, and unless you're so amped-up on caffeine that you can't sit still, what's the point? You're not shooting from a helicopter and you're not running down the sidelines, so there's no vibration to cancel in the first place!

The difference is pretty big. I don't have one myself but I tested my dads EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, switching the IS on and off on long focal lenths.

Malte

Art Scott · May 9, 2006

mereimage wrote:

?ACDF

................Mereimage

ACDF : American College Dance Festival Association......I seem to always forget the "A" on the end.....there are 10 regions and every year a different school hosts the festival which is actually a competition and the winners go to a National Festival (competition) in DC at the John F Keneday center for Performing Arts....May 18 - 18, 2006......

Wichita State University (I used to work as the performance facilities Manager, lighting and sound for almost all of the shows....like this) was the host thsi year and I missed it

Again I must congratulate on your fantastic shots.

Malte · May 9, 2006

I love number 2! Have you lasso highlighted the background and made it black? If so, it really works for this one.

Great captures all around.

Malte

DoctorIt · May 9, 2006

That's a good take for a tough situation, well done.

thanks for the 50k warning, btw. I forget about things like that, and actually didn't get it for a few minutes... on this site, that should just be a banner across the top of everything. Logging on in here with dialup is like walking into a gunfight with a wet noodle.

mereimage · May 9, 2006

DoctorIt wrote:

That's a good take for a tough situation, well done.

thanks for the 50k warning, btw. I forget about things like that, and actually didn't get it for a few minutes... on this site, that should just be a banner across the top of everything. Logging on in here with dialup is like walking into a gunfight with a wet noodle.

Yep it was even slow on here last night on DSL...........thanks for looking
Mereimage

mereimage · May 9, 2006

Nikolai wrote:

Captures are fantastic!
And I really like how you did the mattes:-) Very cool!

/

Thanks Nicolai---If ya'll are going to the shootout give Pathfinder a shout-'ll hold the fort here for him....................Mereimage

mereimage · May 9, 2006

Malte wrote:

I love number 2! Have you lasso highlighted the background and made it black? If so, it really works for this one.

Great captures all around.

Malte

No the background was black from the angle I was shooting at. Thanks for viewing..............Mereimage

mereimage · May 9, 2006

Art Scott wrote:

ACDF : American College Dance Festival Association......I seem to always forget the "A" on the end.....there are 10 regions and every year a different school hosts the festival which is actually a competition and the winners go to a National Festival (competition) in DC at the John F Keneday center for Performing Arts....May 18 - 18, 2006......

Wichita State University (I used to work as the performance facilities Manager, lighting and sound for almost all of the shows....like this) was the host thsi year and I missed it

Again I must congratulate on your fantastic shots.

I hadn't heard of that -it would be exciting to shoot-this was a high school preformance. Thanks for your kind comments.............Mereimage

cambler · May 9, 2006

Malte wrote:

The difference is pretty big. I don't have one myself but I tested my dads EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, switching the IS on and off on long focal lenths.

Maybe it's just me - all the sports shooting I've done, I've never noticed a difference with VR and without, other than battery use. Both ways, the shots came out just fine, and I was definitely using settings that should have benefited from VR.

Jeffro · May 9, 2006

cambler wrote:

Maybe it's just me - all the sports shooting I've done, I've never noticed a difference with VR and without, other than battery use. Both ways, the shots came out just fine, and I was definitely using settings that should have benefited from VR.

IS or IR with sports shooting?

Usually sports is high shutter speed, so you wouldn't notice a difference. Slow down to below your focal length...it's a huge help! For sports, turn it off, save you batteries!

Mereimage: Nice shots, I have a high school chorus concert tonight, and alway meet with the same challenges....you did good!

Murphy66 · May 9, 2006

Numbers 2 & 9 are remarkable. VERY nice work.

mereimage · May 9, 2006

Jeffro wrote:

IS or IR with sports shooting? Usually sports is high shutter speed, so you wouldn't notice a difference. Slow down to below your focal length...it's a huge help! For sports, turn it off, save you batteries!

Mereimage: Nice shots, I have a high school chorus concert tonight, and alway meet with the same challenges....you did good!

Re: battery life -with the 1dm2 I just leave IS on -have never run out of batterypower in a day of shooting- usually good for 1000 shots even with IS.
Thanks-good luck with youir chorus shoot...Mereimage

mereimage · May 9, 2006

Murphy66 wrote:

Numbers 2 & 9 are remarkable. VERY nice work.

Thanks -those more 'posed' or stationary shots are a lot easier to get dead on.

.....................Mereimage

Art Scott · May 10, 2006

very long post

cambler wrote:

Agreed. For the cheerleading competitions I shoot, I like to watch the practices a few times to get an idea of the routine, so I know where the major stunts and dance moves are.

A lot of times being able to preview a dance show is impossible .... or at least for all the dance shows I've been involved in for the past 5 years (it was at a college but some of the shows were private local schools renting our venue and our staff for lighting, sound and so on)... and no on e was allowed at the rehearsals except for the dancers, instructors and parents...other than that rehearsals are normally closed....due to the fact that the lighting designer could be making all sorts of changes and so on right up to preview night.....preview night is actually the dress rehearsal and last night of making any changes....

I saw mention in one of the above postings, to using a tripod.....in most states this is in direct opposition to State Firecodes......Most State Fire Codes state that if any type of a Tripod or Monopod is used for any reason that the whole section of seats must be cordoned off as tripods and monopods are deemed a safety and trip hazzard.

In our venue if prior arrangements had been made with the Dept Manager (that was me) then we would allow upto 4 people with mono / tripods on our handicap platform if more than 3 handicapped patrons arrived then the mono / tripods had to be put away and those people were made to return to their seats and handhold their cameras from there on.....we also are very adament about not allowing the use of any flash lighting for stills photos and no aux. lighting for movie cameras......

You should check out your closest university or college that has a dance program and go shoot a show or two...if they have a really good lighting designer the shows will be spectatcular......and the norm is again depending on the size of the stage....between 6 and 12 round pos of lights for the action to happen in ( these are called specials ) and then the back drop is usuall an unbleached musling that will be lit from behind low and from above front mixing colors really setting the moods and then there is the actual from lighting that is a mix of color and white light and not to forget the side lighting from the booms on either side of the stage this creates what are know as alleys for the dancers to try to stay in and the side lights are usually a mix of colors ......

I have found when I would get a chnce to shoot a show that I would set my KM 7D on program iso either 1600 or 3200 and normally I would be shooting at 1/15 sec or so and f4.5 and somewhere between 80mm and 200 (prior to my 2.8 70 -210).

Here is link to my last Dance festival at Wichita State University fall 2005:

http://contemporary-visions.smugmug.com/gallery/1045499/1/50736969

and the exif:
Date Taken: 2005-11-19 11:15:58
Date Modified: 2006-01-02 17:54:28
Make: KONICA MINOLTA
Model: MAXXUM 7D
Size: 3600x2400
Bytes: 2421457
Aperture: f/4.5
ISO: 1600
Focal Length: 80mm (120mm 35mm)
Exposure Time: 0.0666s (1/15)
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Exposure Program: Normal program
Exposure Bias: 0
ColorSpace: sRGB

The only thing the EXIF doesnot show is whether or not the Anti-Shake was on....and I can tell you that Anti-Shake has been a true life saver for me...Whether shooting dances, operas, musicals, baseball, portraits, weddings or wildlife....I even leave it on when my cameras are tripoded....

Your horse pic is awesome also.

Let us see more great dance and equestrian shots such as these.

Jeffro · May 10, 2006

RAW+IS=success.

mereimage wrote:

Re: battery life -with the 1dm2 I just leave IS on -have never run out of batterypower in a day of shooting- usually good for 1000 shots even with IS.
Thanks-good luck with youir chorus shoot...Mereimage

I never have any problem with my batteries either by the way.

Did the chorus shoot...RAW/M-jpg. And since I back jpg for my race shots some probably think I'm against RAW...not the case...see..

jpg straight out of the camera.

RAW converted to jpg, using Canon Photo Professional (very quick fix even)

By the way this was shot at ISO 1600, handheld, 70-200L F 2.8 IS, @ F4/155mm @ 1/40th of a second..IS was on.

mereimage · May 10, 2006

Art Scott wrote:

A lot of times being able to preview a dance show is impossible .... or at least for all the dance shows I've been involved in for the past 5 years (it was at a college but some of the shows were private local schools renting our venue and our staff for lighting, sound and so on)... and no on e was allowed at the rehearsals except for the dancers, instructors and parents...other than that rehearsals are normally closed....due to the fact that the lighting designer could be making all sorts of changes and so on right up to preview night.....preview night is actually the dress rehearsal and last night of making any changes....

I saw mention in one of the above postings, to using a tripod.....in most states this is in direct opposition to State Firecodes......Most State Fire Codes state that if any type of a Tripod or Monopod is used for any reason that the whole section of seats must be cordoned off as tripods and monopods are deemed a safety and trip hazzard.

In our venue if prior arrangements had been made with the Dept Manager (that was me) then we would allow upto 4 people with mono / tripods on our handicap platform if more than 3 handicapped patrons arrived then the mono / tripods had to be put away and those people were made to return to their seats and handhold their cameras from there on.....we also are very adament about not allowing the use of any flash lighting for stills photos and no aux. lighting for movie cameras......

You should check out your closest university or college that has a dance program and go shoot a show or two...if they have a really good lighting designer the shows will be spectatcular......and the norm is again depending on the size of the stage....between 6 and 12 round pos of lights for the action to happen in ( these are called specials ) and then the back drop is usuall an unbleached musling that will be lit from behind low and from above front mixing colors really setting the moods and then there is the actual from lighting that is a mix of color and white light and not to forget the side lighting from the booms on either side of the stage this creates what are know as alleys for the dancers to try to stay in and the side lights are usually a mix of colors ......

I have found when I would get a chnce to shoot a show that I would set my KM 7D on program iso either 1600 or 3200 and normally I would be shooting at 1/15 sec or so and f4.5 and somewhere between 80mm and 200 (prior to my 2.8 70 -210).

Here is link to my last Dance festival at Wichita State University fall 2005:

http://contemporary-visions.smugmug.com/gallery/1045499/1/50736969

and the exif:
Date Taken: 2005-11-19 11:15:58
Date Modified: 2006-01-02 17:54:28
Make: KONICA MINOLTA
Model: MAXXUM 7D
Size: 3600x2400
Bytes: 2421457
Aperture: f/4.5
ISO: 1600
Focal Length: 80mm (120mm 35mm)
Exposure Time: 0.0666s (1/15)
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Exposure Program: Normal program
Exposure Bias: 0
ColorSpace: sRGB

The only thing the EXIF doesnot show is whether or not the Anti-Shake was on....and I can tell you that Anti-Shake has been a true life saver for me...Whether shooting dances, operas, musicals, baseball, portraits, weddings or wildlife....I even leave it on when my cameras are tripoded....

Your horse pic is awesome also.

Let us see more great dance and equestrian shots such as these.

Thanks on the info-I wouldn't have thought of those kind of restrictions on monopods ect.--I quess it makes sense to ask before shooting. RE: the horse pic-the school's full time photographer has a great photo of the troop in dress uniforms in a snow storm which is awesome. I'd post it if I can get access to it...................Mereimage

mereimage · May 10, 2006

Jeffro-good example of the value of shooting in RAW
and at those shutter speeds IS rocks............Mereimage

50k warning/Took a shot at photographing a dance recital

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