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Stepping on toes

USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
edited June 2, 2006 in Mind Your Own Business
Had something strange happen to me today not really sure why I am even putting this on the forum but here goes.

Was approached by a very high airport official who has seen some of my photos.
He wants to buy maybe 36 or more photos and my name and web site would be on them too.
The photos are going to be put up in the airport train station at both ends.

They will be in a very visible spot seen by lots and lots of passengers.
They would be more or less like a mural each 3' x 5'(I guessing)
The photos are replacing the out of date photos that are already there.

Everything sounds great doesn't it?
But no here's the toes thing.

The department that will be printing and installing these murals/photos are putting up a few road blocks.
I guess they must think I want there job..I don't know<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1&quot;/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:27.75pt; height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Owner\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/ne_nau.gif"/&gt; </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:dunno<!--[endif]-->
They tell me they no time to work on this project and they will call me when/if they need me.

The #2 guy came to me and we had a little meeting and he was back peddling and telling me how hard it is to get into photography.:bash
He also said not in so many words that my stuff isn't as good as I think...how would he know:wxwax
I also reminded him that you guys came to me for photos I didn't come to you.<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Owner\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/umph.gif"/&gt; </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

I am going to talk to the #1 guy Tuesday and see what’s going on but the department that will handle this has his ear and their plans don’t include me.
I can hear then telling the boss we don't need Fred just leave it to us we'll just get some stock photos of Ky,Oh and In.:splat<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:22.5pt;height:22.5pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Owner\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image003.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/splat.gif"/&gt; </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

Anyone ever run into this kind of cr@p before and what do you do.:pissed
I really think I am sunk..but we will see.

Sorry just had to get this off my chest
I am usually pretty thick skinned about this stuff but this got to me.

Thanks
Fred.....................................I feel better now :D
http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos

Comments

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    mr peasmr peas Registered Users Posts: 1,369 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    Dgrin can be used for therapy, rant all you want.

    Try not to work with middle-men, go back to the first person that asked you about your photos, that would be the best plan of action.

    also..
    Can you show us which photos you are referring to?
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    dogwooddogwood Registered Users Posts: 2,572 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    also...
    ... make a point to sell your images. The uniqueness, your other clients, your ties to the local community. Give the #1 guy a reason to really want your photos. Face it, as much as we all love shooting photos, the majority of "making it" or selling images is how you market them, not how good your images are!
    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

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    Shay StephensShay Stephens Registered Users Posts: 3,165 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    Call their bluff
    I smell a ploy to talk you down to giving the photos away for free or worse.

    The next time they try, or preempt it by calling the decision maker, tell em if they are not interested that is fine, thank them for considering you and walk out the door. If they stop you or call you back, your good. If not, it wasn't a real offer anyway.

    Don't let them tie you around their finger.
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    mr peas wrote:
    Dgrin can be used for therapy, rant all you want.

    Try not to work with middle-men, go back to the first person that asked you about your photos, that would be the best plan of action.

    also..
    Can you show us which photos you are referring to?

    Well he is looking for photos like this

    35652926-M.jpg22883009-M.jpg16803343-M.jpg7080812-M.jpg

    Mostly Northern Ky and Cincinnati landscapes
    Tuesday I will try to talk to the head man.

    Thanks
    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    dogwood wrote:
    ... make a point to sell your images. The uniqueness, your other clients, your ties to the local community. Give the #1 guy a reason to really want your photos. Face it, as much as we all love shooting photos, the majority of "making it" or selling images is how you market them, not how good your images are!
    Yes I agree and I am not trying to make it in photography...well not really ne_nau.gif
    I love it it's great fun and I sell a few photos and it's starting to pay for all the photographic toys I have.
    Couldn't get any better.

    Some know this I work at the airport I work with these guys everyday.
    So to me it seem like a good thing for our airport to say these photos were taken by one of our employees an electrician.
    Seem like good PR to me...but what do I know I just change light bulbs:D

    If the #1 guy wants the photos he will get them.
    But if he listens to guys that are worried that someone in the world besides them might a little creative then it's not going to happen.

    Thanks for the help
    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    I'm with Shay. If they're sincere, they'll do it. If they're not, they're just trying to get something for nothing, and whether you're trying to make it in photography or not, that just doesn't serve you.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    Shay Stephens wrote:
    I smell a ploy to talk you down to giving the photos away for free or worse.

    The next time they try, or preempt it by calling the decision maker, tell em if they are not interested that is fine, thank them for considering you and walk out the door. If they stop you or call you back, your good. If not, it wasn't a real offer anyway.

    Don't let them tie you around their finger.
    I think you are exatly right I think they want then for nothing but that's not going to happen.

    I have had runins before with these guys they are very territory.
    I'll attent a photoshop seminar and there guys are there.
    I attend for fun they attend for work...so we see each other a lot.

    We shall see next week

    Thanks Shay
    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited May 25, 2006
    DavidTO wrote:
    I'm with Shay. If they're sincere, they'll do it. If they're not, they're just trying to get something for nothing, and whether you're trying to make it in photography or not, that just doesn't serve you.
    15524779-Ti.gif

    Thanks
    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited June 1, 2006
    Ok thought I would update everyone on this.

    Tried to have a meeting with the #1 guy but couldn't hook up.
    Today he found me on one of our runways and told me that he was very impressed with my photos.
    He(the airport) is going to buy a few not sure how many yet.
    He said that we couldn't put my name or website on the photos not sure why.

    The job has changed a little he wants to change my photos into drawings.
    I told him I could do that...but he wants my buddies (see above) to do this.
    I guess he is trying to keep everyone happy ne_nau.gif
    So I guess we will see what happens.

    The boss wants me to pick some photos and put something together(cincy and northern ky)

    So I thought I would do a pdf presentation....like to know your thoughts on this.
    And also will this just run when the cd/dvd in put into the drive?
    Or do I have to add a batch file or something?

    Trying to make this as simple as possable not sure how computer savvy he is.

    Oh yea he also wants a couple for his family room :cool

    Thanks
    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    SeefutlungSeefutlung Registered Users Posts: 2,781 Major grins
    edited June 1, 2006
    I'd remind him that a camel is a horse that was designed by a committee. That being said ... the #1 guy wants your shots. The underlings want to use shots from someone else (their friends or family probably). Now they went from photos to drawings to no credit ... all in an attempt to undermine your photos.

    The choice is simple ... either stand by principals or stand by good business practice.

    If you are after making a buck, then do whatever you gotta do to close the deal and don't worry about how the photos are used or how they are presented ... you got your return in the bank. You can charge them more for the copywrite, (make sure you protect yourself with copywrites et cetera on the presentation CD ... I'd be very leary of giving them anything they could copy into a drawing).

    If it is all about showing your work ... then stand by your guns and demand photo credits and website tags. You don't even have to charge them (in fact you could run it though a charity organization and get tax benefits out of the deal). Give 'em a CD for prints/drawings but demand full artistic decision making authority. This will insure that the photos are used in a manner which represents them as you see (cropping, grouping, that the drawings reflect the intent of your photos et cetera).

    And tell the #1 guy that no matter how the matter is resolved, that at the end of the day you'll deliver some photos for his personal use and only charge him actual cost of printing and framing.

    My $.02
    -Gary-

    PS- And tell the #2 guy that he is rude and insulting and couln't make it in the private sector.
    -G-
    My snaps can be found here:
    Unsharp at any Speed
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    PetersCreekPetersCreek Registered Users Posts: 54 Big grins
    edited June 1, 2006
    Man...from my very far away end of this story, things are starting to smell even worse...with the exception of the prints for the family room.

    Are you willing to surrender creative control of your images to have them manipulated by those yahoos in the graphics department? And you don't even get public credit? Unless there's a hefty licensing fee (or outright sale price) involved, I just don't see the upside from here.

    I hope it works out for ya.
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    Steve CaviglianoSteve Cavigliano Super Moderators Posts: 3,599 moderator
    edited June 1, 2006
    Fred,
    I agree with Shay and David. Sounds like they want your pics for free. Sort of like a buyer on a car lot telling the salesman, "Well, you know I'm really not interested in this car and I'm not crazy about the color either". Just a ploy to get a better price.

    IMO, you've got something in your favor that none of the stock agencies have. You are a LOCAL! How cool would it be to display shots taken by local talent? Extremely cool clap.gif They are unique and if you sell them the rights, these images won't be seen hanging anywhere else. Unlike stock images.

    Good luck to you and YES, YOU'RE PICS REALLY ARE THAT GOOD thumb.gif

    Steve
    SmugMug Support Hero
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited June 1, 2006
    Thanks again everyone I really do appreciate the feed back.

    PetersCreek:
    Are you willing to surrender creative control of your images to have them manipulated by those yahoos in the graphics department

    No I really don't want too but might not have a choice.
    I would rather do them myself.
    The only upside is a sale...think I will make it little high and see...would like to see my name and site on there some where.

    Gary:
    I think I will make the photos low res to make sure.
    It did cross my mind to give them to photos but then my old buddies got involved...so now no way..if I charge nothing then they think they are worth nothing.
    I may not be the best but I am the hardest working photog in Ky.

    Steve:
    Yep I thought the local thing would be good ...but guess not ne_nau.gif
    Thanks for the good comments on my photos thumb.gif

    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited June 1, 2006
    Some great shots! Keep in mind that this hassle would not be here if your work weren't this good! clap.gif

    Please keep us posted.
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
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    gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited June 2, 2006
    Me...i would tell them to rot in hell. I dont take a back step from any person whom tries this garbage on.

    The head honcho knows how to contact you if he's fair dinkum about the whole shamozzle.
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    SystemSystem Registered Users Posts: 8,186 moderator
    edited June 2, 2006
    fred-

    great pics!-

    you're getting some good advice, particularly from shay and davidto-

    but I think I like what gus had to say best of all-

    I would have a real hard time letting them do whatever to my pics-

    whatever you do, think long term and whether you would be happy with your decision, say, a year from now-

    best of luck-
    george
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited June 2, 2006
    gefillmore wrote:
    fred-

    great pics!-

    you're getting some good advice, particularly from shay and davidto-

    but I think I like what gus had to say best of all-

    I would have a real hard time letting them do whatever to my pics-

    whatever you do, think long term and whether you would be happy with your decision, say, a year from now-

    best of luck-
    george


    Thanks everyone

    Well I am about to that point...just say hell with it all
    But the #1 guye really does like my photos and I have known him a long time it's my buddies I have problem with.
    They know where to find me.

    Getting good advice from everyonethumb.gif

    Gus you have such a way with words :D

    Thanks
    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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    gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited June 2, 2006
    USAIR wrote:
    Gus you have such a way with words :D

    Thanks
    Fred
    I follow one rule in life mate..better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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    USAIRUSAIR Registered Users Posts: 2,646 Major grins
    edited June 2, 2006
    gus wrote:
    I follow one rule in life mate..better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

    I agree very good advice...although I try to be diplomatic at times but it rarely works...must be the times we live in I guessne_nau.gif

    Fred
    http://www.riverbendphotos.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/Riverbendphotos
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