Shooting Sports

mgmphotographics · May 20, 2006

I am better at the artistic/action side than the tech side and my brain tumor is not helping either one, so I REALLY need some help please.

I have a Nikon F150 and a 4.5/800mm lens. I always shoot in Aperture mode but I have trouble getting totally in focus shots. I usually shoot at 5.6 because it usually won't let me go any lower with 800 ISO film.

Any ideas are most welcome and appreciated! Thanks!

Mara

Stan · May 20, 2006

It might be easier to see if you post an example, but a quick look at your posts showed a baseball game in bright sunshine.

At ISO 800 that should allow for a smaller apperture than f/5.6 whilst keeping the shutter speed up. and therfore a greater depth of field. What shutter speed are you aiming for? If you shoot in Aperture priority, it will fix the aperture setting, when it would seem that you want to stop the action. If you shoot in TV mode, set the shutter to anything over 400th sec and see what the camera allows as the aperture setting.

Hope it helps
Stan

digismile · May 20, 2006

Not an easy question to answer, Mara.

OOF (out of focus) sports shots are a pretty common thing. It would help to see some examples. Your problem can be affected by shutter speed, depth of field, motion of the subject, motion of the camera, etc.

Guessing from your reponse, you may be having a DOF (depth of field) problem, since you indicated you aren't getting a totally in focus image (suggesting that shutter speed isn't the issue). Your 800mm lens is a long one and depending on the distance to your subject, the DOF can be very narrow.

For example, if your subject was 75' away, your depth of field at f5.6 would be .9 feet. If your subject was 150' away at f5.6, your DOF would be 3.6 feet, and at 300', the DOF would be over 14 feet.

So you see the trend, the closer the subject, the narrower your band of infocus. So, a picture of a bike rider at 150' away won't be in focus from the tip of the wheel to the seat of the bike.

Maybe you could tell us what your typical subject matter is and provide a sample. There are several really gifted sports/action/bird photographers on dgrin that shoot with long glass that I'm sure can give you some helpful hints.

What I can tell you from my experience of photographing moving objects, it's easier to get a clean shot when the subject is running across or diagonally to your field of vision. The more the subject is coming directly toward you, the harder it will be for you hit the small DOF window of focus.

Hope this is a start to your quest for information.

Regards,
Brad

mgmphotographics · May 21, 2006

Thanks Stan and Brad!
I have to make a correction (I'm not really stupid, it's the brain tumor)... My lens is 80-400mm 1:4.5-5.6D, so it's really not doing any good except for very close shots. I tried to shoot in Shutter Mode once and everything came out VERY blurry. I really don't understand it, I am embarassed to say. I have read my Nikon book and when I get with the camera, it all goes haywire, constantly saying it's too high it's too low making me readjust it while I'm trying to shoot. It was impossible. Do you think if I shot with higher film, maybe 1600, I could get sharper pictures? Even in Aperture Mode? All input is greatly appreciated! I will try to put some examples on here so you can see what I've been getting. Thanks again!

Mara

mgmphotographics · May 21, 2006

Examples

mgmphotographics · May 21, 2006

Example2

mgmphotographics · May 21, 2006

Example3

mgmphotographics · May 21, 2006

Example4 baseball shot at twilight

StevenV · May 21, 2006

example 2, at least, appears to be a simple case of auto-focus catching the fence in the background rather than the runner that you wanted. IF (and that's a big if) you know where the action's going to be, you can turn off auto-focus or make sure it's pointed at the right place.

In the case of a steal at 2nd, for example, you can get a good idea if the runner might be going. Then set the camera for single-shot AF or manual focus and focus on the base itself and wait for the runner.

mgmphotographics · May 22, 2006

StevenV wrote:

example 2, at least, appears to be a simple case of auto-focus catching the fence in the background rather than the runner that you wanted. IF (and that's a big if) you know where the action's going to be, you can turn off auto-focus or make sure it's pointed at the right place.

In the case of a steal at 2nd, for example, you can get a good idea if the runner might be going. Then set the camera for single-shot AF or manual focus and focus on the base itself and wait for the runner.

Thanks Steven, I will try that. It didn't help that I was exhausted that night. Nice pic, btw. Hopefully your info rubs off on my pictures! Thanks again!

Mara

Steve Cavigliano · May 31, 2006

Mara,
The 1st 3 shots looks to be mis-focused. In that the background is sharp, but not the subjects. Could be a little over exposure and motion blur thrown in also. What speeds are you getting?

If it was a speed issue, I'd think you'd see it more in the twilight shots. But, the last one looks pretty sharp. The 4th one may have the over exposure and/or motion blur-camera shake issue. Nothing is "in-focus" in that one

At F5.6 and at twilight, you should be able to get decent speeds (1/500 or so). Not sure if your zoom is at it's sharpest wide open though

Anyhow, keep us updated on your progress. We see posts mainly from digital users and it's refreshing to see some posts from film users too

Steve

BTW, were those baseball shots taken at Frontier Field?

wxwax · May 31, 2006

I really don't know how good the autofocus is on a Nikon F150, nor what the settings are.

In your shots, the camera often seems to focus on the larger background, not the smaller players.

A larger aperature lets in more light and helps the autofocus work better. So get whatever film speed necessary to get your maximum aperature. If that doesn't help, then you should either consider prefocusing on places where you expect action... or trying manual focus. Faster film and a wider aperature will force a faster shutter speed, of course, and hopefully solve any motion blur issues.

JMHO

mgmphotographics · June 3, 2006

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Mara,
The 1st 3 shots looks to be mis-focused. In that the background is sharp, but not the subjects. Could be a little over exposure and motion blur thrown in also. What speeds are you getting?

If it was a speed issue, I'd think you'd see it more in the twilight shots. But, the last one looks pretty sharp. The 4th one may have the over exposure and/or motion blur-camera shake issue. Nothing is "in-focus" in that one

At F5.6 and at twilight, you should be able to get decent speeds (1/500 or so). Not sure if your zoom is at it's sharpest wide open though

Anyhow, keep us updated on your progress. We see posts mainly from digital users and it's refreshing to see some posts from film users too

Steve

BTW, were those baseball shots taken at Frontier Field?

I think I might have been using 400 ISO and yes it was Frontier Field. I think it was a combo of all of the above and me being so exhausted. The next game I shot was much better. Thanks a lot, Steve! Do you think trying 1600 ISO would help? Except it's BACKWARDS!
Mara

mgmphotographics · June 3, 2006

wxwax wrote:

I really don't know how good the autofocus is on a Nikon F150, nor what the settings are.

In your shots, the camera often seems to focus on the larger background, not the smaller players.

A larger aperature lets in more light and helps the autofocus work better. So get whatever film speed necessary to get your maximum aperature. If that doesn't help, then you should either consider prefocusing on places where you expect action... or trying manual focus. Faster film and a wider aperature will force a faster shutter speed, of course, and hopefully solve any motion blur issues.

JMHO

What do you think of 1600 ISO? Or is that just fot digital? Thanks!
Mara

Steve Cavigliano · June 4, 2006

mgmphotographics wrote:

I think I might have been using 400 ISO and yes it was Frontier Field. I think it was a combo of all of the above and me being so exhausted. The next game I shot was much better. Thanks a lot, Steve! Do you think trying 1600 ISO would help? Except it's BACKWARDS!
Mara

Hi Mara,
I don't know about ASA1600 film. I do know that the faster shutter speed you can get, the better. I'd suggest using whatever speed film you need to to allow you to get properly exposed shots @ 1/500 shutter speeds.

As I mentioned in my last post, in EV11 type lighting (late afternoon, before sunset), you should be able to use F5.6, ASA/ISO800 and get 1/500 speeds. If you feel you get sharper results with the aperture stopped down to F8 (which is very likely), try some ASA1600 film.

Check this site out. Especially, the 2 charts (scroll down 2/3 of the way). One gives a description of every type of light you will encounter (Exposure Values) and the other chart shows what settings can be used for each Exposure Value.

Good luck and go Redwings

Steve

wxwax · June 4, 2006

mgmphotographics wrote:

What do you think of 1600 ISO? Or is that just fot digital? Thanks!
Mara

I'd buy a roll and try it.

mgmphotographics · June 6, 2006

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Hi Mara,
I don't know about ASA1600 film. I do know that the faster shutter speed you can get, the better. I'd suggest using whatever speed film you need to to allow you to get properly exposed shots @ 1/500 shutter speeds.

As I mentioned in my last post, in EV11 type lighting (late afternoon, before sunset), you should be able to use F5.6, ASA/ISO800 and get 1/500 speeds. If you feel you get sharper results with the aperture stopped down to F8 (which is very likely), try some ASA1600 film.

Check this site out. Especially, the 2 charts (scroll down 2/3 of the way). One gives a description of every type of light you will encounter (Exposure Values) and the other chart shows what settings can be used for each Exposure Value.

Good luck and go Redwings

Steve

Thanks Steve! I hope I understand it. And ^5 on the "go Red Wings"!

Mara

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mgmphotographics · June 6, 2006

wxwax wrote:

I'd buy a roll and try it.

Ok, I got some but I'm kind of nervous, with the lighting changing during the game. I'm learning on the job all the technical stuff. But ya got my back, so no worries, right?

Thanks!

Mara

Shooting Sports

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