Need simple sunlight/shade lesson

lambad · November 2, 2004

Question from a beginner... when I take photos outdoors in bright daylight, standing in or out of shade, pointing in or out of shade, my photos come out TOO bright and contrasty, or 'washed out' light (see example here, but this happens whether or not there is water). I need a first-simple-one-step-lesson:what should I do on my camera (Nikon 5700) to prevent this? Can you give me just one little step to try? I can take it from there and experiment from that. Thank you.

gubbs · November 2, 2004

lambad wrote:

Question from a beginner... when I take photos outdoors in bright daylight, standing in or out of shade, pointing in or out of shade, my photos come out TOO bright and contrasty, or 'washed out' light (see example here, but this happens whether or not there is water). I need a first-simple-one-step-lesson:what should I do on my camera (Nikon 5700) to prevent this? Can you give me just one little step to try? I can take it from there and experiment from that. Thank you.

I don't think your very far off with the exposure there, you could try setting the exposure compensation down to -.3 or -.2 I had my 8080 permanantly set like this... Can you shoot in raw?

photocat · November 2, 2004

Where do you point to meter? If you sky is that overlighted, it is probably because you meter on the sand...
If there is a very hard contrast, you will either have an overlighted sky or a underlighted beach with a good sky.
You might want to put a polarizer filter on, or a neutral density filter, that darkens the sky a bit...

Shay Stephens · November 2, 2004

lambad wrote:

Question from a beginner... when I take photos outdoors in bright daylight, standing in or out of shade, pointing in or out of shade, my photos come out TOO bright and contrasty, or 'washed out' light (see example here, but this happens whether or not there is water). I need a first-simple-one-step-lesson:what should I do on my camera (Nikon 5700) to prevent this? Can you give me just one little step to try? I can take it from there and experiment from that. Thank you.

Since the 5700 does not have a histogram, you need to be more active in the exposure process for best results. But you may be able to get better result by using the 256 segment matrix metering. If you are already using that, then the zone system is what you are looking for.

In the zone system you are using the spot meter instead of the matrix metering mode. You meter a target either in the scene (sand, t-shirt- clear blue sky, etc) that you know has a known value, or bring your own target in the form of a white or gray card. A gray card meters at 0EV and a white card would meter at +2EV.

You can read more about the zone system here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=5778792

It is worth spending some time researching and learning the zone system so that you can get some control over the exposure in difficult lighting situations where the cameras "intelligence" breaks down.

photocat · November 2, 2004

Thanks for the link... I think I know what the article is saying.
Hard part is to remember it. I have trouble remembering theory after having being sick, so I need to practice a lot.
Most of the technical stuff for photography is in the mind, so if your brain has been affected, it becomes very hard.
Personally, I rely on expertise in the field I would say... grin
It was a good article you pointed us too.

lambad · November 2, 2004

Thanks, everyone, for your input. I am laughing, though, because you are talking with a beginner (truly, all that the term implies). Pointing a Meter? Polarizing filters? And two comments: yes, I can shoot in the raw, but I prefer to keep my clothes on. Oh, ok -- I can shoot in the raw, which I did accidentally last weekend and now i have to peruse my User Guide to find out how to view them. Also -- Shay, my camera (Nikon 5700) does have a small histogram for each photo. Anyway, thanks all. I will tuck this stuff away and experiment on this particular lesson.

wxwax · November 2, 2004

lambad, do you have any kind of computer software for image processing? Like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro? Or Photoshop Elements?

If so, you can play more games with the camera to get a good exposure.

If not, a simple remedy is to point the camera slightly more at the sky than the ground, half push the button, then re-frame the shot the way you want it and push the button all the way to take the pic. By aiming the camera kinda at the sky and half pushing the button, you're forcing the camera to make an exposure that allows for the brightness of the sky. Then you keep holding the button half down, to keep that exposure setting, and you re-frame the shot the way you want it.

The only danger is that your non-sky stuff might be took dark. You can always experiement with pointing at more of the sky, or less of the sky. I do this all the time as a quick way to try different exposures.

lambad · November 2, 2004

Hope i'm replying using the correct "Reply" link. I have had MGI Photosuite on my computer since day 1, but don't know how to use it very well. Have heard so much about Photoshop that just this morning I downloaded a trial version of Photoshop Elements 2.0.
Thanks for your hints... I will definitly use them, as my goal is to use as much camera as I can and as little photo editing as possible (to force me to learn the camera). I guess photo editing I consider a really neat art form separate from the photo-taking itself, to a good degree anyway. (Not sure if that's just because I don't know photo-editing very well, or don't wanna spend too many hours at the computer, or because of what i just said in the previous sentence.)

wxwax · November 2, 2004

Cool. Elements 2 is said to be a remarkably capable program and a true bargain - rare in the world of photography, I'm discovering.

If you have a histogram, I'd use it as much as possible. Try using Manual Mode for your camera. Then take a shot and look at the histogram. You're usually trying to keep the bump away from the sides. If it's hitting the right side of the histogram, the shot is overexposed. If it's hitting the left side of the histogram, it's underexposed. Of course, there are a million exceptions to this simplistic rule. But it's a handy, quick way to interpret a histogram, and far more reliable than using the little monitor on the camera, which never tells the truth.

If you're up for it, here's a good explanation of how to use the histogram.

gubbs · November 3, 2004

Shay Stephens wrote:

Since the 5700 does not have a histogram, you need to be more active in the exposure process for best results. But you may be able to get better result by using the 256 segment matrix metering. If you are already using that, then the zone system is what you are looking for.

In the zone system you are using the spot meter instead of the matrix metering mode. You meter a target either in the scene (sand, t-shirt- clear blue sky, etc) that you know has a known value, or bring your own target in the form of a white or gray card. A gray card meters at 0EV and a white card would meter at +2EV.

You can read more about the zone system here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=5778792

It is worth spending some time researching and learning the zone system so that you can get some control over the exposure in difficult lighting situations where the cameras "intelligence" breaks down.

That's interesting stuff, I'll give it a try.... Thanks

lambad · November 4, 2004

Shay and wxwax, i've printed out the articles you mention and a little nightlite is beginning to burn here on that score (histograms and zone system). Thanks much.

photocat · November 5, 2004

lambad wrote:

Shay and wxwax, i've printed out the articles you mention and a little nightlite is beginning to burn here on that score (histograms and zone system). Thanks much.

I discovered working with the histograms on my camera since I joined this group (3 weeks ago) and it works a charm. I knew it out of photoshop, but then discovered that I could read them after every pic I take on my LCD screen. I have become addicted to read the histogram.
This group is a constant learning factor. I love the links to other sites with more knowledge too.

lynnma · November 5, 2004

photocat wrote:

I discovered working with the histograms on my camera since I joined this group (3 weeks ago) and it works a charm. I knew it out of photoshop, but then discovered that I could read them after every pic I take on my LCD screen. I have become addicted to read the histogram.
This group is a constant learning factor. I love the links to other sites with more knowledge too.

ok so here is a really stupid question for everyone.. here I am working away in Adobe PS CS ... why is it I can only "save as" a psd, tiff and a couple of others I can't remember but no jpg. To save as a jpg I have to "save for the web" and save as "original".. am I missing something basic here??? other times I can save as a jpg assuming I opened it as a jpg..

I can miss the obvious sometimes...

photocat · November 5, 2004

lynnma wrote:

ok so here is a really stupid question for everyone.. here I am working away in Adobe PS CS ... why is it I can only "save as" a psd, tiff and a couple of others I can't remember but no jpg. To save as a jpg I have to "save for the web" and save as "original".. am I missing something basic here??? other times I can save as a jpg assuming I opened it as a jpg.. I can miss the obvious sometimes...

You need to check your layers. If you have more then one layer, and you did not merge invisible or flatten the image, you can not save it as a jpeg. Multi layered files are saved as tiff or psd... Hope this helps.

lynnma · November 5, 2004

photocat wrote:

You need to check your layers. If you have more then one layer, and you did not merge invisible or flatten the image, you can not save it as a jpeg. Multi layered files are saved as tiff or psd... Hope this helps.

maybe I'm merging visible or something.. I'd swear I flatten most of the time as I usually save as psd then flatten.. I'll check it.. Thanks.

ian408 · November 5, 2004

Check to make sure the image is an 8 bit image. If you're using /16, you can't
save as a jpeg.

Need simple sunlight/shade lesson

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