Reproducing Photos - WaterMark - Copyrighting

kschmeits@charter.net · July 28, 2006

Greetings,
I am hoping for some constructive advice regarding the unauthorized reproduction of my phototgraphs.

Problem:
People/Customers will by the 4X6's that I offer for sale from my galleries, then take them to another lab and resize them to 8X10's or larger. (Had one guy make a sticker '2X'3 for his trailer).

Precautions:
I take the following precautions. I don't allow larges or originals to be shown, I right click protect my galleries. I batch job my logo into the bottom right corner (using adobe action). Also in Adobe, I add file info (Caption, Headline, Keywords, Mark as Copyrighted, and provide a copyright notice etc). On my site, I even state in the footer that my photos are copyright protected.

Discussion:
When I find out about this being done, I confront the customer (tactfully) and ask how they got it reproduced. They usually tell me how they just took it in and the technician just poped it in/uploaded into the computer and printed it. As the dialog continues, sometimes the comment will come up that it was not watermarked/marked on the back of the print.

What I don't understand is how the labs are doing this? The picture is marked in the front with the "ActionPhotos by K3" logo! How is that not considered a professional photograph?

Then I think well shame on me for offering photos so cheaply - I value my work, but I also know I am still in a learning curve... and times are tight... blah blah blah... sorry thats my saga for another time.

I have seen where some people don't offer 4X6's or they charge as much for a 4X6 as they do a 5X7.:uhoh

I have even thought of not offering 4X6's on the web. And for the customers that use my photos for scrap booking, to have them request what pictures they want, then use Adobe to batch the originals down to a 4X6. This would make enlarging to a larger photo less appealing.

My real question is, what do you all do? I see threads where people download the pictures with PROOF on them and post them, upload them to other site, make pictures from them etc.., so I really shouldn't be surprised at this.

Do I just throw up my hands or is there something more constructive to do?
:dunno

Would it be possible for the lab that SmugMug uses to mark the backs of the pictures? Is it possible to have a reminder message right before the customer checks out... "Thank you for your patronage. Please remember that these photographs are licensed and copyrighted, reproduction from these prints is not authorized" - That one may be over kill...

Your thoughts please?

Thanks!
Kelly
http://www.actionphotos-k3.com
http://actionphotos-k3.smugmug.com

bham · July 28, 2006

I looked at your site. One things I would do is adjust your price structure so that you make more on a 4x6. If they are so cheap about saving some money for an 8x10, then they would probably be less likely to pay 3.50 for a print, instead of just a dollar. You are gonna sell less but less likely to have cheap people ripping you off.

The other thing is they may crop the photo with smugmug and crop of your text, and thus who they take it too doesn't see that.

I have read where some photographers will set prices on their 4x6, 5x7, and 8x10 so that their profit is the same no matter what size they sell. You could set it that you make 3 or 4 dollars profit off a sale of any of the standard size prints.

Just a couple of ideas. Me I put proof pretty much on every gallery I have. A few customers have asked if they could see the part of the pic that was covered up the the word proof, so I copy it to another gallery and crop it down so that pretty much only that part of the pic is visible. That way they aren't likely to try to print it.

videoopp · July 28, 2006

Amazing to me that some would go to so much trouble to save a few bucks! If it is happening a lot, I would definitely try eliminating 4x5's all together, or perhaps only a buck or so differnce between a 4x5 and a 5x7.

It would be interesting to hear from other event shooters as to the stratigy that is working for them. Sometimes making a less per item, but selling more as a result may actually increase your profit. You wouldn't want to do it for family sittings or weddings, but for events, who knows?

A friendly, nicely worded message at checkout couldn't hurt.

JBurt · July 29, 2006

videoopp wrote:

Amazing to me that some would go to so much trouble to save a few bucks! If it is happening a lot, I would definitely try eliminating 4x5's all together, or perhaps only a buck or so differnce between a 4x5 and a 5x7.

Ha ha. Never underestimate the general public. To many stories and not enough time.

videoopp wrote:

It would be interesting to hear from other event shooters as to the stratigy that is working for them. Sometimes making a less per item, but selling more as a result may actually increase your profit. You wouldn't want to do it for family sittings or weddings, but for events, who knows?

We shoot carshows then process and print at the show. We offer a 5x7 ($15), 8x10 ($25), and a 12x18 ($45) of their vehicle in a custom template designed for the show. The smallest we offer on smugmug is an 8x10 with no template. We don't offer the template version on SM because it would require separate images for each crop.

Hmmmm... We process all the 5x7s and have them ready for print to buy or use as a proof for larger sizes. Maybe I should offer them in a separate gallery.

My thinking was, why would someone go to all the trouble to mailorder what is essentially a glorified snapshot. Now you've got me re-evaluating. :wow

photofreak · July 30, 2006

kschmeits@charter.net wrote:

Greetings,
I am hoping for some constructive advice regarding the unauthorized reproduction of my phototgraphs.

Problem:
People/Customers will by the 4X6's that I offer for sale from my galleries, then take them to another lab and resize them to 8X10's or larger. (Had one guy make a sticker '2X'3 for his trailer).

Precautions:
I take the following precautions. I don't allow larges or originals to be shown, I right click protect my galleries. I batch job my logo into the bottom right corner (using adobe action). Also in Adobe, I add file info (Caption, Headline, Keywords, Mark as Copyrighted, and provide a copyright notice etc). On my site, I even state in the footer that my photos are copyright protected.

Discussion:
When I find out about this being done, I confront the customer (tactfully) and ask how they got it reproduced. They usually tell me how they just took it in and the technician just poped it in/uploaded into the computer and printed it. As the dialog continues, sometimes the comment will come up that it was not watermarked/marked on the back of the print.

What I don't understand is how the labs are doing this? The picture is marked in the front with the "ActionPhotos by K3" logo! How is that not considered a professional photograph?

Then I think well shame on me for offering photos so cheaply - I value my work, but I also know I am still in a learning curve... and times are tight... blah blah blah... sorry thats my saga for another time.

I have seen where some people don't offer 4X6's or they charge as much for a 4X6 as they do a 5X7.:uhoh

I have even thought of not offering 4X6's on the web. And for the customers that use my photos for scrap booking, to have them request what pictures they want, then use Adobe to batch the originals down to a 4X6. This would make enlarging to a larger photo less appealing.

My real question is, what do you all do? I see threads where people download the pictures with PROOF on them and post them, upload them to other site, make pictures from them etc.., so I really shouldn't be surprised at this.

Do I just throw up my hands or is there something more constructive to do?

Would it be possible for the lab that SmugMug uses to mark the backs of the pictures? Is it possible to have a reminder message right before the customer checks out... "Thank you for your patronage. Please remember that these photographs are licensed and copyrighted, reproduction from these prints is not authorized" - That one may be over kill...

Your thoughts please?

Thanks!
Kelly
http://www.actionphotos-k3.com
http://actionphotos-k3.smugmug.com

The lab I use has ALWAYS printed on the back these are copyright protected and no reprints may be made. Smugmug is just now starting to do this???

Smumug deals with many professionals...interesting you are just now starting this...
Mandi

SamirD · August 3, 2006

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people don't understand the copyright laws and don't care about quality. These people will happily steal copyrighted works and then actually brag on how they were able to accomplish it. Nevermind that their copy is inferior to the original product.

I have even run into companies that do the same.

These violations and image theft are a part of the business. If the losses add up significantly, then it pays to take legal action against those that are doing the actual duplicating--the stores. A friend here in Alabama who was in law enforcement saw $100,000 lawsuits win in the favor of the photographer in a very small town.

I've actually faced similar problems with theft by companies. One is a local newspaper who basically told me, "go ahead and sue us--you won't get anything" for three of my photographs used on the cover of the sports section for a Sunday paper. Another is the web site streetfire who published one of my videos without credit for over a year, amassing many hits and traffic off my work. They won't respond to my requests for a share of their profit from that video.

Reproducing Photos - WaterMark - Copyrighting

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