30D +EF-S or 5D

limbik · August 11, 2006

I've been thinking about picking up a 10-22 but since the 5D is very reasonably priced these days 2nd hand, I wonder if I wouldn't be better off just selling the 30D and keeping my current lenses (none are EF-S).
The price difference is much smaller when I think about it that way...

Any thoughts on this? Anybody looking for a 30D? Anybody thinking about selling their 5D?

Seefutlung · August 11, 2006

So why do you prefer the 5D to the 30D? I really think that for most of us (those that print 8.5 x 11 or smaller) the MP Wars are mute.

I've been tossing the 5D vs. the 'N' ball around for some time now (as I stash away a buck here and a buck there). I've used a 5D on occassion and the N ... I don't see a significant difference between the N, 5D and 20D on a full frame pix. What I am beginning to realize is that the super 5D images I see on the internet were more a combo of photographic skill and Photo Shop wizardry (with more weight on the PS side of the coin). I think that most who shell out the higher dollars for a 5D also have better photographic and PSing skills (on average) than those with less expensive cameras.

Just finished reading August issue of Practical
Photography at Borders for free, he he he, they had a
review of the Canon 1DsMII with all of it's 16.7MPs.

Being "Practical" they took same shots with a Rebel XT
(8MP) and a 1DsMII. THen they made prints at various
sizes 6x4, A4 (12x8) and A3 (18x12) and asked the
public and photographers which was from a better
camera. With a 6x4, about 98% couldn't tell, with A4
87% couldn't tell, and at A3 67% couldn't tell.

I think when it comes to the ultimate test, how images
look on prints, (admittedly this is but one subjective
test), this article does bring some perspective to
this matter.

Additionally, Klaus, owner of Photozone, a websute
form that performs MTF tests on lenses also stated
about the same thing regarding image size and
resolution. Essentially, all lenses look sharp at
6x4, the more you enlarge the greater the differences.

Gary

PS- For my type of shooting FPS is important and the 30D's 5 FPS is significantly better than the 5Ds 3 FPS. But the 12MPs do give you considerable latitude with cropping, so the 5D has the advantage there.
-G-

PSPS- Get your hands on a 5D and shoot up a card's worth of images before you "upgrade"... just for a look-see.
-G-

limbik · August 11, 2006

Thanks for the suggestion, I'm not really a high FPS shooter and would be able to make use of the extra MP in crops, but for the most part that is not my main concern, I get by just fine with 8.2.

I do quite a bit of low light shooting and the 5D really seems to have one up in this department compared to the 20 or 30D. Not a huge margin, but every little bit helps.

The biggest factor is the possibility of going FF eliminates many of my difficulties in finding a good lens that can go reasonably wide but yet cover a good walk around range, what I have now would be fine.

Then additionally, I suppose if I factor in the cost of adding a real focusing screen to the 30D (costly and complicated) its probably worth it since I've come very close to doing this more than once.

zacker · August 12, 2006

If you are doing alot of landscapes then a 5D might be the way to go.... Id love to dump my 30D for a 5D but i have no more cash...lol I think the bigger sensor and cleaner images is well worth the slower frame rate any time! I dont really worry about FPS as im not a sporter..if i was id have the 1dmk2n and forget the rest!

I have seen tons of awesome shots from the 5D that were taken (correctly) and not PP'd to death. Have a look for Marc Adamus. Since he started with the 5 D, usually all he does is some lite dodging and burning..all which were done way back in the good old dark room days

limbik · August 12, 2006

Or I could really get crazy and do what I was thinking before I bought the 30D to unload the canon and go with a D200

Heck, the 2nd hand price might even come down a bit after the D80 comes out.

Tee Why · August 12, 2006

If you get the 5D, what lens do you have to get 16mm that you can get with the 30D with a 10-22? My first guess is a 16-35L. That would really increase the cost of the camera/lens set up. A 17-40L would do as well and would be cheaper.

I had the 1DMarkIIN and the XT which have the same pixel pitch or density as the 5D and the 30D and have the 30D now and the noise and dynamics difference due to the sensor's pixel pitch is not really noticable. You can see the dpr.com's reviews for a better comparison of those when they tested the 5D.

I think if you print 8x10 or smaller, the difference won't be noticable. If you print larger, then they will start to become more visible. I however, don't think you'll see that much of a difference though. Going from a 30D to a D200 won't increase resolution by that much either.

limbik · August 12, 2006

Not really being able to get the same 16mm, I had a 17-40 but sold it already. However, it would bring my 28-75 into a more useful range for me, and on the 5D the 17-40 would be a really fun lens! It just didn't work on the 30D for me because at the range it becomes I needed f2.8, constant f4 would be fine and dandy for a real wide angle.

The resolution is really not my main concern, I try to compose as well as I can and don't often need to crop much, however any extra would be a bonus, especially when I want to rotate and crop.

The D200, would be for its flash capabilities and some of the lenses that they offer, since I would have to change all that anyhow. But right now I'm just debating, at least the cost of the D200 would allow me a bit more flexibility in lenses right away.

limbik · August 12, 2006

Here are my current thoughts, I could either:

A. Keep the 30D and my 28-75 and pick up a 10-22mm (+ approx $500)

B. Keep the 30D, sell the 28-75 and pick up a 17-55 f2.8 (+approx $900)

C. Sell the 30D, keep the 28-75, and buy a 5D (+approx $1000)

D. Forget it all and go Nikon

Its hardly worth it to sell the 28-75, only getting around $200 for it so I might as well keep that. So I think plan B is out...

What it comes down to, is that I'm within a $500 range of the 5D which I would have opted for to begin with, but it was more than a $1500 difference when I was not taking into account the necessity for an additional ultra-wide on the 30D to get the range I want.

Red Bull · August 12, 2006

If you really need the low light/high ISO capabilities, I'd stick with Canon.

limbik · August 12, 2006

Red Bull wrote:

If you really need the low light/high ISO capabilities, I'd stick with Canon.

Yea, my thoughts as well yet the 30D has dissapointed me in this regard.
On another note, I do like the looks of the Nikon 80-400, I really can't stand Canon's push-pull.

Now I went and brought telephoto into it... uh oh... :uhoh

Tee Why · August 14, 2006

To be honest, I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference in the image quality of all those set ups you've mentioned unless you are printing big.

You'll see some diff if you like to look at 100-200% crops, but on normal sized prints, such as a 8x10, you won't be able to tell much difference if any.

I know with hobbies, it's more of want and not needs, so if you like the FF and the 5D, that's not bad either.

limbik · August 14, 2006

Yes, I can't say enough how little the MP matter to me since anything 8MP and up works just fine. There are advantages to each, including features, available lenses, etc.. to me:

30D:
Canon 10-22mm
RRS L-Bracket with handstrap lug
Already own it, a 430EX and a few Canon lenses

5D:
Best high ISO performance
17-40L (due to FF)
Focus Screens
Already own a 430EX and a few Canon lenses

D200:
18-200mm Nikkor
80-400mm Nikkor
RRS L-Bracket with handstrap lug

erich6 · August 15, 2006

Looks like you've been trading up a lot. I say stick with your 30D and get the 10-22 if you really need the wide angle. The 30D is a fine body and you should be able to make great images with this combo. Keep shooting with this for a while and by then you'll be able to get better deals for other cameras/lenses if you really need to change.

Erich

limbik · August 15, 2006

Not so much really, I had the 20D for a long time then recently "upgraded" to the 30D. I am somewhat dissapointed with it compared to the 20D, but yes the 10-22 would really work out well on it.

Tee Why · August 15, 2006

If it was me, I'd pick up the 10-22.
Very economical and very wide.

limbik · August 15, 2006

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, I just found out the new RRS L-Plates for the 5D have a handstrap lug!

As simple as it seems, that just about puts it over the top for me. Now its time to track down a good deal on a used 5D.

limbik · August 17, 2006

Hmm... Per rumors floating around, I think I'll hold off just a bit on the upgrade to the 5D.:patch

Blurmore · August 17, 2006

Since I purchased the 17-55 f2.8 EFS
I've been drinking the EF-S koolaid.

I have a 20D and a 30D and I will buy the next semi-pro EF-S body to come down the pike (unless ofcourse my work takes of big, then I will go for the 1DS MKII) I can't swallow shelling out 2800 dollars for a camera Canon is supporting like an "advanced amatuer" "small body PJ" camera. I'm not saying it is not a sweet camera, it certainly is, but if I'm going to scoop for that much dough I'll go into hack for the extra and the big guns. I would use the 1DS MKII as a portrait/prime lens and the 30D as a candid/telephoto camera. I am concerned that the 30D replacement may have more MP but no better high ISO capability as the pitch of the APS-C sensor size is getting pretty tight, without a drastic improvement in CMOS sensor technology the "40D" may be an 11 MP camera with the same or worse 800+ noise profile than the 30D, which I'll take a pass on. ATTN CANON: IMHO the IDEAL 40D would be a 10MP APS-C DSLR, with improved AF, live histogram, ISO 50-3200, split focus screen, body integrated high intensity infrared focus assist/flash controller, and improved ISO 800/1600 noise profiles, or in other words the ultimate APS-C wedding photographer's camera. I'm not QUITE ready to shell out for the 10-22 even though I've heard great things about it, I'm going to opt for the Peleng 8 as most of my WA wants fall into the artistic/illustrative basket rather than the real perfect rectilinear world anyway. I know I'll have more fun with the Peleng 8.

30D +EF-S or 5D

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