Can't get any 'depth' to my landscape pictures.

macmassey · September 3, 2006

Howdy...I ca't seem to take a good medium range landscape picture. It turns out unclear regardless of what setting I use. Do I need a different lense? Is it a case of a horse is only as good as its rider? I have a 5 mega-pixel Panasonic Lumix FZ20. I attached an example. If you look at the photo, its as though the camera couldn't focus on any one thing plus you don't get the sense of depth. Any feedback would be apreciated. Thanks!

DavidTO · September 3, 2006

Samples with EXIF (shooting data) would help. Otherwise, I have no idea what to tell ya.

gus · September 3, 2006

Welcome to D/grin macmassey. Really that is a question that cant be answered. What we can do here is look at a sample photo you have troubles with as well as the EXIF information & try and assist you from there.

From people i have spoken to & samples i have seen...that camera is fine.

W.W. Webster · September 3, 2006

macmassey wrote:

I'm attaching a couple of examples.

When? Where?

wxwax · September 4, 2006

Hi Mac. Here's how to post pics. You can only attach one per post, and there's a size limit. Linking's easier.

macmassey · September 4, 2006

W.W. Webster wrote:

When? Where?

I finally figured out how to upload a dang picture....so see what you think I'm doing wrong!

cmason · September 4, 2006

Here is the EXIF from the posted picture:

Camera Make: Panasonic
Camera Model: DMC-FZ20
Image Date: 2006:09:02 22:07:16
Flash Used: No
Focal Length: 12.1mm (35mm equivalent: 73mm)
Exposure Time: 0.017 s (1/60)
Aperture: f/2.8
ISO equiv: 200
Exposure Bias: -0.66
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: Landscape Mode

_____

I assume by 'depth' you mean having the background out of focus? Or do you mean both foreground and background in focus? In any case, depth or not, the photo is not very sharp, nor in focus, and there are some shake or movement issues...

A few things to think about next time you do this:

1) looks like the shutter speed may be a tad low. 1/60 should be ok for handheld, but a tripod will tell you whether it is camera shake or not..looks like it to me. Plus if you follow the inverse rule, your focal length 73mm, requires a 1/80 or 1/125 speed or so.

2) f2.8 is great to use IF you have a very good lens. Most lenses go soft at the far ends of the range, so you may want to try to get one at f/8, and compare.

3) focus: what were you focusing on? If you want depth, focus on the nearest trees or some other foreground subject, and keep the lens fairly open. (f2.8-f4) If you are looking for focus both with foreground and background subjects, you need the lens stopped down, say f/16 or more.

macmassey · September 5, 2006

Thank you very much for your feedback. I've wondered about the camera shake issue. This camera is supposed to have a very good anti-shake feature which I always have engaged. The lense won't go over F-8 by the way. Perhaps I need to upgrade my lense. I will try your suggestions, which are greatly appreciated. As far as what I was focusing on, I had attempted to focus on the bridge way in the back that you can barely see! I am attaching another picture that turned out better though still seems a little blurry to me but that could be my imagination because my wife said it's not.

cmason wrote:

Here is the EXIF from the posted picture:

Camera Make: Panasonic
Camera Model: DMC-FZ20
Image Date: 2006:09:02 22:07:16
Flash Used: No
Focal Length: 12.1mm (35mm equivalent: 73mm)
Exposure Time: 0.017 s (1/60)
Aperture: f/2.8
ISO equiv: 200
Exposure Bias: -0.66
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: Landscape Mode

_____

I assume by 'depth' you mean having the background out of focus? Or do you mean both foreground and background in focus? In any case, depth or not, the photo is not very sharp, nor in focus, and there are some shake or movement issues...

A few things to think about next time you do this:

1) looks like the shutter speed may be a tad low. 1/60 should be ok for handheld, but a tripod will tell you whether it is camera shake or not..looks like it to me. Plus if you follow the inverse rule, your focal length 73mm, requires a 1/80 or 1/125 speed or so.

2) f2.8 is great to use IF you have a very good lens. Most lenses go soft at the far ends of the range, so you may want to try to get one at f/8, and compare.

3) focus: what were you focusing on? If you want depth, focus on the nearest trees or some other foreground subject, and keep the lens fairly open. (f2.8-f4) If you are looking for focus both with foreground and background subjects, you need the lens stopped down, say f/16 or more.

gus · September 5, 2006

macmassey wrote:

Perhaps I need to upgrade my lense.

I dont mean to be rude but there is no other way for me to say this & do you the service of me telling you my honest opinion ....but ....the camera you mentioned has a factory fitted lens...it can not be changed. This leads me to think that you have almost no knowledge of the camera you are using & thus you will often take some ordinary shots with this lack of basic knowledge. No harm there...you just need more time & advise.

Get a tripod for it & learn how to set the timer on the camera...start doing a few shots at diff f-stops with both the timer & the tripod.

cmason · September 5, 2006

macmassey wrote:

The lense won't go over F-8 by the way. Perhaps I need to upgrade my lense.

I am quite sure your lens goes over f/8, but also sure you can not replace it on this camera. It is a fine lens by the way.

My first suggestion is this: stop using 'landscape' mode. Use the manual mode or the Apeture priority mode. In Apeture priority, dial it to a larger number (f/11, f16, etc), and let the shutter speed go where it will. If it falls below 1/60, put the camera on a tripod and use the timer, as Gus suggests.

You also should watch to make sure the ISO does not go up as well when you do this. Panasonic cameras are famous for high noise at high ISOs, so if you have a way to force it to ISO 100 or 200, you should do that also.

howard · September 5, 2006

I believe it is f8 max. Mind you with small sensors that delivers plenty of DOF. On the shot of the trees if the focus point was 20ft everything from 13 - 50 feet would be covered by the DOF.

cmason wrote:

I am quite sure your lens goes over f/8, but also sure you can not replace it on this camera. It is a fine lens by the way.

My first suggestion is this: stop using 'landscape' mode. Use the manual mode or the Apeture priority mode. In Apeture priority, dial it to a larger number (f/11, f16, etc), and let the shutter speed go where it will. If it falls below 1/60, put the camera on a tripod and use the timer, as Gus suggests.

You also should watch to make sure the ISO does not go up as well when you do this. Panasonic cameras are famous for high noise at high ISOs, so if you have a way to force it to ISO 100 or 200, you should do that also.

cmason · September 5, 2006

howard wrote:

I believe it is f8 max.

Yep, just checked DPReview..I stand corrected...f/8 is max. Ok strike that first one, though I still feel getting out of the auto modes will help you get exactly what you are after.

howard · September 5, 2006

I still feel getting out of the auto modes will help you get exactly what you are after.[/quote]

I agree completely, especially as landscape mode delivered f2.8. Not usually my first choice for landscapes

claudermilk · September 5, 2006

A quick primer on settings: the smaller the f-stop number, the larger the aperture opening set, and hte narrower the depth-of-field (DOF). Setting to f2.8 has your lens wide open with it's narrowest DOF, and is the exact wrong setting for a landscape. So you need to stop down to probably at least f8, or smaller if you can. The tradeoff is the smaller the aperture setting (higher number), the longer the shutter speed, so that is why most landscape photographers use tripods.

It may help to grab a copy of Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_0_0/104-3112087-0981526?ie=UTF8

macmassey · September 6, 2006

Thanks for your honest!
Hey you weren't rude at all and you're right, I don't know this camera. I've always had point and shoots but wanted to get into something I could learn to manually operate. I think the Lumix by Panasonic is an ok starter camera but when I upgrade next time, I'll definitely know better about factory fitted lenses versus having the ability to change out lenses or having a lense with a wider degree of F options. Anyway, I'll take your advise and 'relax' and get to know this camera and its limitations. Thanks again for your input!

gus wrote:

I dont mean to be rude but there is no other way for me to say this & do you the service of me telling you my honest opinion ....but ....the camera you mentioned has a factory fitted lens...it can not be changed. This leads me to think that you have almost no knowledge of the camera you are using & thus you will often take some ordinary shots with this lack of basic knowledge. No harm there...you just need more time & advise.

Get a tripod for it & learn how to set the timer on the camera...start doing a few shots at diff f-stops with both the timer & the tripod.

macmassey · September 6, 2006

Thanks....all excellent feedback!!! Great suggestions!

howard wrote:

I believe it is f8 max. Mind you with small sensors that delivers plenty of DOF. On the shot of the trees if the focus point was 20ft everything from 13 - 50 feet would be covered by the DOF.

macmassey · September 6, 2006

I've learned more in this forum over the past few days than I have my entire life! This is very valuable and everyone has been great. The F stop education is invaluable and thanks for the book recommendation! I do have a tri-pod but I need to start using it!

claudermilk wrote:

A quick primer on settings: the smaller the f-stop number, the larger the aperture opening set, and hte narrower the depth-of-field (DOF). Setting to f2.8 has your lens wide open with it's narrowest DOF, and is the exact wrong setting for a landscape. So you need to stop down to probably at least f8, or smaller if you can. The tradeoff is the smaller the aperture setting (higher number), the longer the shutter speed, so that is why most landscape photographers use tripods.

It may help to grab a copy of Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_0_0/104-3112087-0981526?ie=UTF8

macmassey · September 6, 2006

I believe I've gotten too accustomed to using the auto modes when I have the ability to set up every shot manually. You're right that's definitely the way to go. I appreciate alll the advice. Everyone is great!

howard wrote:

I believe it is f8 max. Mind you with small sensors that delivers plenty of DOF. On the shot of the trees if the focus point was 20ft everything from 13 - 50 feet would be covered by the DOF.

Can't get any 'depth' to my landscape pictures.

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