Metz 76 or QFlash 5

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 2, 2007

Well here I am again. I just can't seem to make myself happy with the flash(es) that I've tried with my digital SLR (20d & 30d). My problem is that I come from the old skool film SLR and I used my trust worthy side mount Sunpak 544. I loved the flash and it created perfect images (and the camera helped too).

Since I've gone digital I've been unhappy with the flash(es) available. Told that my Sunpak wouldn't work, I sold it. I purchased the Sigma 500 DG Super and the 500 STD. While both seem to work great with the Canon at a fraction of the cost of the speedlights, I'm just not happy with a shoe mount flash so I went in search of the side mount again.

I found out that the Sunpak will in fact work with my digital SLR so I went and purchased a Sunpak 622 Pro. Man it is an awesome flash, HOWEVER, it won't work with the TTL capabilites of the camera. It seems to work fine in alll manual mode but I loose the TTL and the focus assist beam and all that good stuff that is available. Since this is important to me I'm back on the hunt.

After recovering from sticker shock of the Metz 76 MZ-5 side mount flash I decided to continue the hunt. I've come across Quantum's QFlash 5 as well. Even more expensive! If I choose the QFlash I'll have to bracket the flash but that's okay.

Well part of my research is to come here and get your opinions on these two flash systems and also see if you have any other recommendations.

Here are the two I've found so far:

Metz 76 MZ-5

QFlash

What do you think?

pathfinder · January 2, 2007

I see what you are saying about sticker shock.

How about a 580ex and an off shoe cord and a flip bracket? With Gus's foam diffuser?

The Metz looks nice, but for $899 ought to be, and a guide # of 249 is not really that much stronger than 190 of the 580ex is it??

An off shoe cord allows getting the light even farther from the shooting axis - you can even bounce it off the wall behind you sometimes...... And less than 1/2 the price of the Metz or the QFlash.

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 3, 2007

Pathfinder, tell me your thoughts on the shoe mounted flash. My main concern is that I shoot weddings and I'm always bouncing around. I'm affraid that I will break the shoe off the plastic flash.

Maybe I'm wrong??? but they seem flimy.

pathfinder wrote:

I see what you are saying about sticker shock.

How about a 580ex and an off shoe cord and a flip bracket? With Gus's foam diffuser?

The Metz looks nice, but for $899 ought to be, and a guide # of 249 is not really that much stronger than 190 of the 580ex is it??

An off shoe cord allows getting the light even farther from the shooting axis - you can even bounce it off the wall behind you sometimes...... And less than 1/2 the price of the Metz or the QFlash.

pathfinder · January 3, 2007

I agree with you that the little foot mounting system designed to mount on top of a pentaprism seems like an awful idea. I wonder how that ever came about. I do not like putting a big flash on top of my pentaprism either - weak, dangerous to flash and camera, and absolutely the last place the flash should be. But it is handy and inexpensive,which appeals to a many folks

So yes, I think the mounting foot of the Speedlite is a valid concern. I share it. But you can buy two 580s, a bracket and and off shoe flash cord for less than the Metz or the QFlash. The Metz and the Q are also significantly brighter - shooting outdoors in sunlight, that might be an advantage. But they are also bigger, heavier, and more expensive.

I like being able to get the flash up and to the right of the frame even when shooting landscape or portrait modes. Potato mashers work well with 2 1/4 square because you do not rotate the camera about it's lens axis in a square format.

I don't shoot weddings for a living, so bear that in mind when I voice an opinion!! The Metz and the Q have rechargeable batteries that should last all day long. The Speedlites will use AAs, and will need them replaced fairly frequently. I use Lithium AAs, and find that the best solution. I used rechargeables for a while, but Li AAs just seem to last a long time and an extra set is all I need to have around.

I like being able to dismount the flash and move it off to the side some where using the ST-E2 to trigger it. For the price of the QFLash, you can have two 580s, and an ST-E2 to trigger them in varied ratios...

So little time, so many choices.

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 3, 2007

Thanks for all your opinion. I think we've about covered it all. Now if I can get Quantum, Canon, and Metz to each send me their latest model so I can "test them in the field"

then we wouldn't have anything to talk about. Well since that isn't going to happen and I'm going to somehow have to find the funds to support this flash issue, well, the budget gets a lot of authority in making the decisions :cry

I figure I'll end up with a speedlight..... Now with that said and you admitting that the Metz and Q put out much more light do you see any forcomeing problems shooting weddings wiht a SpeedLight and sometimes having groups of 8 or so in a photo in a normal lighted church?

See, I've created more to talk about

Scott

pathfinder wrote:

I agree with you that the little foot mounting system designed to mount on top of a pentaprism seems like an awful idea. I wonder how that ever came about. I do not like putting a big flash on top of my pentaprism either - weak, dangerous to flash and camera, and absolutely the last place the flash should be. But it is handy and inexpensive,which appeals to a many folks

So yes, I think the mounting foot of the Speedlite is a valid concern. I share it. But you can buy two 580s, a bracket and and off shoe flash cord for less than the Metz or the QFlash. The Metz and the Q are also significantly brighter - shooting outdoors in sunlight, that might be an advantage. But they are also bigger, heavier, and more expensive.

I like being able to get the flash up and to the right of the frame even when shooting landscape or portrait modes. Potato mashers work well with 2 1/4 square because you do not rotate the camera about it's lens axis in a square format.

I don't shoot weddings for a living, so bear that in mind when I voice an opinion!! The Metz and the Q have rechargeable batteries that should last all day long. The Speedlites will use AAs, and will need them replaced fairly frequently. I use Lithium AAs, and find that the best solution. I used rechargeables for a while, but Li AAs just seem to last a long time and an extra set is all I need to have around.

I like being able to dismount the flash and move it off to the side some where using the ST-E2 to trigger it. For the price of the QFLash, you can have two 580s, and an ST-E2 to trigger them in varied ratios...

So little time, so many choices.

pathfinder · January 3, 2007

The Metz is described as having a guide number of 249, while the 580ex is listed as 190 on B&H's website. I cannot find a guide number for the QFlash - but it is listed on B&Hs website as 150 watt seconds, which is about half the power of a small studio strobe.

But on rereading your original post, I am struck by your comment that you already own a pair of Sigma flashes that DO support ETTL with your 20D, but you do not like mounting them on your camera; I agree as we've discussed.

You need to get a Canon off the camera flash cord - about ~$50, and a ReallyRightStuff Perfect Portrait bracket and use the flashes that you already own. I rec the B91B bracket as it is the larger bracket and will get your flash up higher away from the shooting axis. (I use the B91B as a handle to carry my camera, flash and a 180mm macro lens, as well as a place to mount my flash ) The Perfect Portrait bracket is $330, but will not break and lets you use your existing stobes that you know work with your camera. The bracket will outlive your camera, and can always be sold if you no longer need it.

Since you own two Sigma strobes, you might want to get a bracket from RRS that lets you mount your second strobe on a tripod in an Arca-Swiss type tripod mount as a fill flash also.

ReallyRightStuff is a great vendor. I have dealt with them on a number of occaisions.

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 3, 2007

Maybe I should get a nice bracket and give these Sigma flashes a chance. Again I'm just more concerned about breaking off the shoe mounts on these suckers

pathfinder wrote:

The Metz is described as having a guide number of 249, while the 580ex is listed as 190 on B&H's website. I cannot find a guide number for the QFlash - but it is listed on B&Hs website as 150 watt seconds, which is about half the power of a small studio strobe.

But on rereading your original post, I am struck by your comment that you already own a pair of Sigma flashes that DO support ETTL with your 20D, but you do not like mounting them on your camera; I agree as we've discussed.

You need to get a Canon off the camera flash cord - about ~$50, and a ReallyRightStuff Perfect Portrait bracket and use the flashes that you already own. I rec the B91B bracket as it is the larger bracket and will get your flash up higher away from the shooting axis. (I use the B91B as a handle to carry my camera, flash and a 180mm macro lens, as well as a place to mount my flash ) The Perfect Portrait bracket is $330, but will not break and lets you use your existing stobes that you know work with your camera. The bracket will outlive your camera, and can always be sold if you no longer need it.

Since you own two Sigma strobes, you might want to get a bracket from RRS that lets you mount your second strobe on a tripod in an Arca-Swiss type tripod mount as a fill flash also.

ReallyRightStuff is a great vendor. I have dealt with them on a number of occaisions.

pathfinder · January 3, 2007

kc7dji wrote:

Maybe I should get a nice bracket and give these Sigma flashes a chance. Again I'm just more concerned about breaking off the shoe mounts on these suckers

Duct tape??

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 4, 2007

some duct tape and maybe one of those head braces that some kids used to wear when they had braces

Maybe I could duct tape the flash unit to my forehead! Then I can do cave weddings too

pathfinder wrote:

Duct tape??

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 9, 2007

Ok I give up on these expensive toys... I'm going to go 580EX and Quantum Battery pack. That should make me smile... and I'll still come in cheaper

Scott_Quier · January 9, 2007

kc7dji wrote:

Ok I give up on these expensive toys... I'm going to go 580EX and Quantum Battery pack. That should make me smile... and I'll still come in cheaper

Scott,

I don't think you will reget this decision. Here's a shot I've posted elsewhere on DGrin. This was shot with a 20D, Tamron 28-27, the Sigma 500 DG Super, the Fong LSPJ, all mounted on a Stroboframe flash flipping bracket (yeah, the bracket has since been replaced!).

Anyway, thought this might encourage you.

Like most reception halls, this place was a dungeon. The ceilings, well I could almost see them they were so high. Don't know what color they really were, I just did the color correction in ACR.

In the course of about 4 hours of shooting, I swapped out the batteries only one time - not because they were dead, but the recycle times were starting to approach 5 - 8 seconds. The second set carried me through the rest of the night. Your battery pack should be killer!

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 9, 2007

Hey Scott. That's the same setup I have (except I have a Tamron 24-70mm). Maybe I shouldn't complain about the Sigma 500 DG Super. I have the same flash but I find it kinda wobbly or flimsy. What's your thoughts? Oh I also the Fong... can't go wrong there.

Are you saying I'm already driving a caddy?

Hey I would be interested in the EXIF data on that photo!

Scott_Quier wrote:

Scott,

I don't think you will reget this decision. Here's a shot I've posted elsewhere on DGrin. This was shot with a 20D, Tamron 28-27, the Sigma 500 DG Super, the Fong LSPJ, all mounted on a Stroboframe flash flipping bracket (yeah, the bracket has since been replaced!).

Anyway, thought this might encourage you.

Like most reception halls, this place was a dungeon. The ceilings, well I could almost see them they were so high. Don't know what color they really were, I just did the color correction in ACR.

In the course of about 4 hours of shooting, I swapped out the batteries only one time - not because they were dead, but the recycle times were starting to approach 5 - 8 seconds. The second set carried me through the rest of the night. Your battery pack should be killer!

Scott_Quier · January 10, 2007

kc7dji wrote:

Hey Scott. That's the same setup I have (except I have a Tamron 24-70mm). Maybe I shouldn't complain about the Sigma 500 DG Super. I have the same flash but I find it kinda wobbly or flimsy. What's your thoughts? Oh I also the Fong... can't go wrong there.

Are you saying I'm already driving a caddy?

Hey I would be interested in the EXIF data on that photo!

I agree the DG Super is kinda flimsy. That's one reason I also have the 580 - that flash has it all over the Sigma, but at a price (which you already know). I paid the price for the 580 and don't regret it for a moment.

As for the Fong, yeah it can do a good job, but only in certain circumstances and it does waste a lot of light.

The exif on the shot is found here.

Blurmore · January 10, 2007

Old Skool Nu Skool Kewl Skewl
I subcontract for a company that employs a bunch of "old skool" guys and they are all swingin a qflash, most mounted to a camera rotating rig from Custom Brackets. Most of them have bought a 580 or 430ex and were dissatisfied with either consistency of exposure, or raw power. I too "learned" in that "Old Skool" but it's lessons were not completely ingrained in me. The biggest reason why they are dissatisfied with flash power from the 580 is they dial the ISO at 400 and leave it there. The biggest reason they are dissastisfied with the 580 on exposure is operator error. OLD A-TTL and MF TTL systems were NOT complex, and designed for film (which allows a greater lattitude at the same ISO IMO) were not finely tuned. With ETTL-II and its super trick ability to take FE from an off center focus point, and the 3 metering modes, the camera and flash IS VERY sensitive to what you point the circle out. A problem exacerbated by shooting a person in white and a person in black next to each other ALL DAY. The other difference between us is they either never did, or decided to leave their second lights at home. I'm near unable to shoot a wedding (especially formal posed shots) without a second light. I don't ALWAYS use a bracket, and I shot 47 weddings last year, 35 the year before, and never broke the shoe mount on the 580ex. I DID break the mount on the bottom of the off camera shoe cord (why quickflips are bad).

Now a word about Kewl Skewl....all you GF LS users make nice light from your tupperware. But you look like dorks. I'm not prepared to look goofy to make good light easily, it is that simple. I use a sto-fen, that and a second light can make exposures that LS users would shed tears over. My second light is similar to Shay's 555 setup but I'm using a 622 and a shoot through white umbrella that I occasionally use as a bounce umbrella, for the big guns I use my AB's, and the 622 as a backlight.

One more word about NuSkool/OldSkool. It would seem to me that most of the Old Skool guys I know look at the major advantage of digital being the ability to shoot a TON of exposures for little or no cost. The company I sub for requires a wedding to be cut down to 500 exposure, some of these guys are shooting 1k to edit down to 500. And the shots they are overshooting are posed and flash group shots, more "saleable" prints. For subcontracted jobs I shoot in the neighborhood of 600 exposures, and edit down to 500. But I'm over shooting the natural light, reaction, and in the moment shots to make sure I get that ONE iconic image. On my own jobs (which I'm not selling prints to people) I shoot around 800 shots which gets edited to 600 of which I proof 300, then they get limited rights to reprint. I guess it is all who your wedding photographer ideal is, for most of the Old Skool guys that is Monte, while most of them will never approach his skill with portrait light, the poses are scored into their conscience and they set them up with ease. For me it is Dennis Reggie, who tries to get his formals done in under 15 minutes and the rest of the day poses almost nothing and concentrates on making what happens look great. Good luck with the flash, and use your 622 as a second light...you won't regret it.

3rdPlanetPhotography · January 10, 2007

Thanks for all the information. How do you use the 622 as a second light? Are you using some kind of remote trigger? I'd like to see a photo of your setup.

Thanks again
Scott

Blurmore wrote:

I subcontract for a company that employs a bunch of "old skool" guys and they are all swingin a qflash, most mounted to a camera rotating rig from Custom Brackets. Most of them have bought a 580 or 430ex and were dissatisfied with either consistency of exposure, or raw power. I too "learned" in that "Old Skool" but it's lessons were not completely ingrained in me. The biggest reason why they are dissatisfied with flash power from the 580 is they dial the ISO at 400 and leave it there. The biggest reason they are dissastisfied with the 580 on exposure is operator error. OLD A-TTL and MF TTL systems were NOT complex, and designed for film (which allows a greater lattitude at the same ISO IMO) were not finely tuned. With ETTL-II and its super trick ability to take FE from an off center focus point, and the 3 metering modes, the camera and flash IS VERY sensitive to what you point the circle out. A problem exacerbated by shooting a person in white and a person in black next to each other ALL DAY. The other difference between us is they either never did, or decided to leave their second lights at home. I'm near unable to shoot a wedding (especially formal posed shots) without a second light. I don't ALWAYS use a bracket, and I shot 47 weddings last year, 35 the year before, and never broke the shoe mount on the 580ex. I DID break the mount on the bottom of the off camera shoe cord (why quickflips are bad).

Now a word about Kewl Skewl....all you GF LS users make nice light from your tupperware. But you look like dorks. I'm not prepared to look goofy to make good light easily, it is that simple. I use a sto-fen, that and a second light can make exposures that LS users would shed tears over. My second light is similar to Shay's 555 setup but I'm using a 622 and a shoot through white umbrella that I occasionally use as a bounce umbrella, for the big guns I use my AB's, and the 622 as a backlight.

One more word about NuSkool/OldSkool. It would seem to me that most of the Old Skool guys I know look at the major advantage of digital being the ability to shoot a TON of exposures for little or no cost. The company I sub for requires a wedding to be cut down to 500 exposure, some of these guys are shooting 1k to edit down to 500. And the shots they are overshooting are posed and flash group shots, more "saleable" prints. For subcontracted jobs I shoot in the neighborhood of 600 exposures, and edit down to 500. But I'm over shooting the natural light, reaction, and in the moment shots to make sure I get that ONE iconic image. On my own jobs (which I'm not selling prints to people) I shoot around 800 shots which gets edited to 600 of which I proof 300, then they get limited rights to reprint. I guess it is all who your wedding photographer ideal is, for most of the Old Skool guys that is Monte, while most of them will never approach his skill with portrait light, the poses are scored into their conscience and they set them up with ease. For me it is Dennis Reggie, who tries to get his formals done in under 15 minutes and the rest of the day poses almost nothing and concentrates on making what happens look great. Good luck with the flash, and use your 622 as a second light...you won't regret it.

Metz 76 or QFlash 5

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