Options
Business advice for startup
exactexposure
Registered Users Posts: 59 Big grins
I have been in the planning stages of starting my photo business for some time now... I have many large prints and canvas works ready to show and display at various locations, etc. I have invested money into getting set-up for shows (even if I don't make a dime I would still do it, so making money is not my first priority, but I am beyond the hobbyist level too). After looking at many artists products around the country (and critical reviews by peers of my work) I feel I can hold my own given my target audience. Don't plan on quitting my day job however. <o:p></o:p>
<u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p>
Any suggestions or recommendations about starting a business, any at all? Is it easier to set up in <st1:State u2:st="on"><st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nevada</st1:place></st1:State></st1:place></st1:State> and register there (as the business would mainly be an internet based storefront, with plans on a gallery someday) or just set up in TN (where mail would be sent) and do it that way? Personal Venture vs. LLC. (I do want to set up separate bank account, EIN/PIN number for wholesale, be able to use credit card for orders and have checks written to me or company name (probably best to company name)). So many questions :-) Would like to start the business for this tax year if possible, also have sold some prints I need to account for too, think for now that would be a sub C on my tax return). I am also looking for good sources for matte cutters and sleeves, which online banks are better for small businesses, etc. ANYTHING related to small business setup.<o:p></o:p>
<u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p>
Another way to ask is if anyone on the forum has recently set up their own business and has had any problems or "gottchas" you can advise me of. I am in the process of talking with my accountant, but want all the input I can get from others who are actually in this specific field. I would mainly be advertising and selling larger prints and panoramic images, going to art shows and displaying my work at galleries and local businesses. <o:p></o:p>
<u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p>
Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p>
David<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
<u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p>
Any suggestions or recommendations about starting a business, any at all? Is it easier to set up in <st1:State u2:st="on"><st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nevada</st1:place></st1:State></st1:place></st1:State> and register there (as the business would mainly be an internet based storefront, with plans on a gallery someday) or just set up in TN (where mail would be sent) and do it that way? Personal Venture vs. LLC. (I do want to set up separate bank account, EIN/PIN number for wholesale, be able to use credit card for orders and have checks written to me or company name (probably best to company name)). So many questions :-) Would like to start the business for this tax year if possible, also have sold some prints I need to account for too, think for now that would be a sub C on my tax return). I am also looking for good sources for matte cutters and sleeves, which online banks are better for small businesses, etc. ANYTHING related to small business setup.<o:p></o:p>
<u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p>
Another way to ask is if anyone on the forum has recently set up their own business and has had any problems or "gottchas" you can advise me of. I am in the process of talking with my accountant, but want all the input I can get from others who are actually in this specific field. I would mainly be advertising and selling larger prints and panoramic images, going to art shows and displaying my work at galleries and local businesses. <o:p></o:p>
<u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p>
Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p>
David<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
0
Comments
Looks like your not getting any responses. I had a peak at your gallery, and there seems to be a definite saturated punchy style to your landscapes. You not only have quality images, but also a nice depth of images. I think you have the product. Now for the business part.
One item I would stress, ok maybe more than one, a business plan (IN WRITING). Also you stated it was ok if you didn’t make a profit. I would caution against this attitude. As an example, while Bill Gates could finance a small 100-person business venture for not only his lifetime but also well into his great grand children’s lifetime with out missing a meal, he would not do it. No businessperson would start a business venture without a reasonable expectation of a profit. When I say profit I mean net profit. It takes a fair amount of gross profit just to break even.
Since you have an account, he / she would be in the best position to recommend the type of business entity would be best for you.
While I don’t think you will need a lot in the way of liability insurance, small Photographic business insurance policies, which cover liability, equipment, and inventory, are very reasonable.
While it’s nice to talk to others in the same business, don’t forgo talking to people in other industries. You will find a lot of commonality in general business practices.
An old saying in the parts business, parts is parts. There is a lot of truth in this. Sales is sales. Successful business have a lot in common. The real difference is in product, and industry specific knowledge.
Your mentioned your set up for art shows. Do have an initial price schedule worked out yet? Have you researched the prices commonly found in you area?
In my own little befuddled mind I break the photography business down into different categories. Taking the photo, camera gear, technical expertise, and most important creativity. Post processing, computer skills, software, creativity. Printing, technical stuff, type of reproduction, paper choices, out source, do it yourself? Framing mounting, and packaging. Marketing, sales. Accounting, inventory control, paper forms, etc.
Each of these categories is a discipline unto it’s self, and will require some study and choices. Which areas are you going to take on yourself, and which are you going to out source?
Hopefully this will give you things to think about. If not feel free to print this post out and use it as to start a fire in your fireplace. :-)
Sam
My question was very open ended and figured I wouldn't get too many responces, but one never knows unless one asks. I am in the final stages of getting started, guess some of my questions will be better answered by an accountant or lawyer, but again thought I would ask on the forums too.
I agree about the attitude towards making a "profit", just as with pricing if you don't think your work is good enough no one else will either. I guess that is what I was trying to say... If no one buys the images at the price I find is fair (given all the effort and resources to print them) then they certianly don't have to purchase them, but I am not "giving away" anything either and it won't kill me not to break even. Guess I will figure that one out by tiral and error. Like you stated it also depends on the area and market.
Thanks...
David
While it's hard to determine the quality of small images viewed on the Internet, I believe your images are very good, and more than just marketable.
Go get them, and keep up posted!
Sam
1) Your site is full of really nice photos yet you offer no way for anyone to make an online purchase. Sumgmug is a terrific business portal, why not take advantage of it?
2) On your site you state that all images are the property of exactexposure.com. I would caution you that there is no legal value to that statement. If you want to "claim" copyright than do so. And exactexposure.com can not hold copyright of anything until it is a registered corporation. You may want to restate ownership as: "All images on this site are protected by copyright and may not be used without express written permission."
or
mark each photo individually: "(C) 200? David Surname"
Good luck to you.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Good thoughts! I saw the first, but forgot to mention it. I didn't even notice the copyright statement.
Sam
I do need to work on the online purchase process, I have been so busy lately that just no time. Will have to check into the smugmug buisness portal section, I have friends that agree it needs to be simple and straight forward for people.
David
Can anyone give me some honest comments/feedback about the navigation of my website? I am trying to keep the site simple (I am not a HTML guru).
Does the "About" button at the top of my page or "About eXacteXposure" image (showing a framed image) make you go to that location to find out more about framing or pricing or do you just get "lucky" and stumble across the pricing or framed examples pages? Hope this makes sense... I try to setup the site as easily as possible given my lack of HTML knowledge and the smugmug limitations. I was thinking about drop-down menus... any comments about that or maybe buttons at the bottom of the main page?
Thanks
David
Thank you for your honest opinion... I would like to make some of my buttons drop down for a little more clairity, but since I am not an HTML guru it will just take some time to figure it out (without messing up my site too badly
I have had friends state EXACTLY what you have about impulse shopping. And I agree completely with you, however... One quesiton or more of a concern about smugmug: I wouldn't mind selling images under 11X14 via smugmug (even though the colors would probably not be as good as I could get them due to profile errors, etc)... but when selling large 16X23 or 20X30 prints the file sizes are soooo large I can't imaging smugmug being able to handle the bandwidth? All my images posted on my website are down-rezed 100dpi examples... if I had originals (which make me nervous because of copy protection) I would be taking up a LOT of bandwitdth.
Are my concerns justified or am I missing something? Also, if I put up a pdf form that you could fill out and send me as an order would that be an viable option in your opinion?
Thanks
David
Hi David,
(Hope you don't mind, but I'm in the mood to give someone a pep talk.)
I had a business coach once tell me that if you are not making a profit enough to take a draw (i.e. pay yourself a salary) then you have a hobby, not a business.
Why short yourself on the possibility that this could really be your business. Go ahead. Come up with a plan, do your homework, do your marketing, grow a little faith. Make something you love. Folks respond.
I hear so much talk about how difficult the photography business is and how competitive it is and how impossible it is. But most of this talk seems to come from folks who are not going for it. Join your local pro photographer association. Those folks are doing it. Grow a network of positive people. And stay away from the critics.
Another thing I was told was that if I do not commit (to my business), I am committing to fail.
I find every step I take in the direction of committing, while it doesn't result in my planned outcome, often opens WAY better doors than I had imagined.
Find your voice in your work. Stay true to it. And go big.
Why not?
(ok, pep talk over.)
I also don't see your location or address on your website. I'd want to know that if I was looking for a portrait photographer.
cheers!
Trish,
Thanks for the talk. I honestly want input from every level and angle and yours is helpful too. Things like the an address for portrait photographer work is so obvious, yet I don't have it. Another helpful hint.
I am working a little at a time with the business (to some almost too slow) but when I do start selling and showing my work I don't want to be caught with my "pants down" i.e. not shipping to customers in time because of lack of materials or funds, no sources of mattes when I need them, poor choice of mattes or display materials, etc. Not excuses, I just have the luxury of taking my time before jumping in (and this forum is another way to explore my options). I will put up an address (maybe stating cities or states I am avilable in). Show locations that I will be at, etc.
I haven't put my art for sale through smugmug as most of my prints are on specialty paper and canvas and I have found no one matches as closely the colors and profiles I can with my own large format printers. Plus the file sizes for my large prints are WAY to big (100's of megs). That being said, is there any other/better way to make customers contact me (I have an email address and now a business only phone number located on the site). Maybe a pdf or form one can fill out and send my way.
I agree about doing something you love. I once hear a comment that has stuck with me to this day: "I would rather try and fail than to succeed at nothing". I have also noticed that everyone's a critic and few go out and actually do it.
Agian, ANY comments are welcome.
David
Angelo,
Thanks for your input... a few questions if I could.
If I do business through smugmug how is the quality? I have found that if I do not print and control colors myself half the time (not always) my prints look "mutted or muddy" vs. when I print them out myself I can tweek them to look much better. I am also concerned about resolution or quality with prints under 300 dpi. On my 16X23 prints I can see a differnce between my 10 and 12 meg camera resolution (everything else being equal) and this can only be agrivated by printing out less than 300 dpi via smugmug. Or is it?
When my LLC is formed and the LLC is dba eXacteXposure.com can I make the statement "all images are the property of exactexposure.com" or should I state they are owned by the LLC? Or maybe I should just state what you did above "All images on this site are protected by copyright and may not be used without express written permission"... not that I really need to state anything really. It's like leaving your door unlocked... legally it is still trustpassing weather the door is locked or unlocked.
Thanks. As always I really get great input from the smugmug community!
David
I started with the standard Smugmug package and after a year decided to upgrade to the "Pro" account and really like the flexibility - being able to customize the site as well as the prices.
I just recently registered my business and am gearing up to promote my services. I do have a question regarding the "business plan" mentioned earlier, but I'll save that for my *own* thread.
I, too, have found great support and feedback from the forums here and the Smugmug guru's as well. Good luck with your venture!
Mike
please take the following in a good way...
While you have some valid questions in this thread. These questions are the finishing touches on a long path (if you do it by the book) to setting up your business.
Take Sam's advise and get a business plan on paper and figure out your income vs overhead and all that fun stuff.
I'm sure this sounds boring. It is.... But this is something that can maxamize your chance for being scessful and not one of those, "I used to be a photographer" types.
Good luck in your endeavors!
I am in a somewhat similar situation - I just "hung out my shingle", as it were, and customized a pro SmugMug site - with TONS of help, freely and quickly given by SmugMug's excellent staff and others on the forums here - and I find that I'm getting tons of "hits", but zero purchases. It's only been a few weeks, so I'm not freaking out here, but it begs the question, "What does it take to get someone to go from a VIEW-er to a BUY-er?". I have gotten tons of excellent comments on my work from friends and family and strangers alike. I know the work is very good. I have good taste. :ivar
My guess is the "impulse buyer" needs a bit more of a push when buying art for their walls at home. the way SmugMug works, you get a rolled up print delivered to your home. Now what? you have to expend time and energy and creative juices - and more money, (framing aint cheap) - to make this print a reality on your wall. There's finding a frame shop and a suitable matte and frame. More waiting; more wasted time; more money. Your "impulse buy" isn't giving you that instant gratification you want in your impulse buying, is it.
I content, and strongly believe, that to reel in the impulse buyer you must offer them a TURNKEY SOLUTION. SmugMug needs to partner up with someone like art.com or pictureframes.com to integrate online, easy, matting and framing to the impulse-buying of a print from a pro site on SmugMug. Or offer it themselves, which I would prefer. SmugMug could have hooks into pictureframes.com or art.com and take advantage of their software for selecting matting and framing, and then ship them, electronically, the image file for processing. Or, preferably, ship them the actual print for framing. Something like that. At the very least, it would be nice to offer a standard "fine art" white matting for prints, shipped mounted on the usual stuff, whatever that is, (foam?). IOW: Ready to frame.
In the meantime, I think it's best to create a "showcase" gallery that has actual pictures of your work already matted and framed and hanging on a wall.
Another thought might be for ME to find another outfit that has good quality printing, like SmugMug has, and good service, like SmugMug has, and also can handle standard fine art matting and framing. Perhaps have SmugMug deliver the print to this outfit and have just a few choices available for matting and framing - black, gold, or silver metal frame with off-white matte kind of thing. Which begs the question, how do I customize the ordering process so the client can choose the frame and matting, even if they can't see it put together, like on art.com and pictureframes.com?
I truly think this could be the Big Differentiator in online services such as SmugMug. And I think it would make everyone a lot more money. I was told that they did look into this but that the shipping was problematic with broken glass and all that. I think that's a problem that should be easily solved. Others do it. It's not impossible - and also, who wants glass, anyway? Most people pick non-reflective plexiglass kind of stuff.
To end this insanely long posting, I'd love to talk to others about how to promote our pro sites. I don't think keywords are enough. I honestly am surprised that anyone ever sells a print on SmugMug, and I trruly would love to know what the trick is there. I'd bet anything that SmugMug makes most of their money from non-pro accounts - families getting prints of their kids and dog kind of stuff. I'd bet a LOT on that.