I have a new dilemma... This is getting really old. Video Camera related

docwalker · April 5, 2007

I know you guys are probably getting tired of my dilemmas. But, I need the support.

To make a long story short, I am very seriously looking at picking up a video camera. I am getting a very high demand here for video services that are not being met by the current market. My photography does well, and I have many supporters with that. I recently did the editing on some video my dad shot with his dv camera. The camera is about 4 years old at this point. The video came out well but did not have the pop that current production cameras have.

So I started looking at cameras and I know I want something that I can change lenses on. Think DSLR type capabilty over a point and shoot camera. I have Canon L glass so I am leaning very heavily towards either the XL2 or the XL-H1. The advantage of the H1 is the HD capabilty. The advantage of the XL2 is the lower price. Both cameras have an adapter to mount L glass. With the adapter you get an 8x crop factor. This has some real advantages to some wildlife/nature video work I want to do.

I was hoping to put off the purchase until mid summer as the wife and I are finally buying a house. We have the money for the house and all taken care of. I had some left over that I invested it to see if I could get a little return out of it. Now I am thinking of taking the money out of the investment, eating the small capital gains hit from the profit, and buying the camera. I can probably make more money from the camera than the investments can right now. We have other investments and savings, this was a see what happens investment anyway.

Things are escalating as my dad made a comittment to shoot a video that he can no longer keep. He now needs me to shoot the video in his place but I really do not want to depend on his gear. This video shoot is scheduled for next month, 2 days following the closing on the house.

I have already gotten really good offers to do several other videos in the future. But, I don't have my own gear to do it. I am trying to decide if I should bite the bullet and by my own camera or risk it and use dads. He cannot afford to upgrade his camera either way.

What I am looking at is combining video and photography together. I have a business model in my head, I just need to figure out how to execute it.

Should I pull the trigger or risk it? I cannot walk away from the job for my dads sake. Does anyone have experience with the XL-H1 and or the XL to L adapter?

bsvirginian · April 5, 2007

Your still photography seems to be outstanding. I've found in my area that still photographers make more money that videographers. And I've been on both sides professionally. I've also found that the post production cost in time also favors the still photographer. I imagine that if there is a void for this service in your area that it might behoove you to change. It just sounds like more work, investment and headaches particularly if you are doing well where you are now. bsvirginian

docwalker · April 6, 2007

I know that it sounds weird. It seems strange to me as well.

What I am looking at is not simply a one business area thing like "wedding videos". Actually I want to avoid the wedding industry as a whole as it is saturated and I don't like the stress. The event I am shooting for dad is a wedding but there are some special circumstances involved with it so I do not mind helping him out. I want to end my wedding work at that point.

The expanded video opportunities include commercials, training/education, and promotional dvds. I am also looking hard at the nature video side. Think about the last 45 seconds of the TV show Sunday Morning. There are companies that mass produce ambiance videos. What I am looking at is a bit grander. I guess you could call it a labor of love.

I don't plan to give up the still side. I think I can make them work together.

wxwax · April 6, 2007

I've shot with the XL-1.

An x8 crop factor is an enormous handicap. You'll need a sturdy tripod to overcome camera shake, which will be significant. More importantly, you'll have a hard time shooting indoors, because it will be difficult to get wide enough.

I don't know anyone who's mounted still lenses to a video camera. I have no idea how well the autofocus will work, nor the zoom. I imagine you've researched this enough to set your mind at ease. On the off chance you haven't, it's an issue worth considering.

I'll ask around and see if anyone has experience using the adapter.

docwalker · April 6, 2007

Sid, Please do ask around. The adapter was only going to be used outdoors mainly for telephoto. For indoors and wide work I was going to use the stock lens.

I have a strudy tripod and gimbal head to use with the 500mm f4L. That was part of the attraction of this camera. Imagine the reach it would give you. Granted, there will be a lot of distortion. You can mount the lens on the gimbal head and then mount the vid cam to the lens. That should give a fairly strudy base.

I am not sure how the autofocus or zoom would work. The zoom I assume would be manual as it is manual on the DSLR for lenses like the 70-200 f2.8IS. There is no zoom on the 500mm so that is not a problem. The autofocus according to the canon site, works. I wonder if the available light focus limitation is the same or worse using the adapter?

Hindsight · April 6, 2007

The problem with videography from a business standpoint is that the costs are prohibitive for the private sector. People generally have no concept of a) how much more money it costs, or b) how much more time it takes than photography. Sure I'll spend a wad of cash on an artistic still shot for my office, but for videos of my kids, forgetaboutit! I don't want to start a whole tangent here, but it's true. Outside of the wedding market it can be difficult to get one's money out of it unless they aggressively market for commercial shoots, ie realty, demos, etc. The private sector, aside from other niche markets like the one I'm in, just doesn't pay well for pro video like they will for pro photography. Video is more of a tool for education than it is a medium for artistic expression. It doesn't embellish like photography.

What is your dad's camera if you don't mind me asking. Buying a nice video camera like one of the new Canons is a huge Pandora's box. It sounds like you're adept with money though, so I'm guessing it won't kill you when you get fully addicted. along with a prosumer camera you simply must have a nice tripod.. and then comes NLE software, computer, case, the laptop, the laptop monitoring software, the firestore, the NTSC monitor, DVD burners and media and printing, location lighting and sound equipment, extra batteries, stabilization devices, filters, adapters... one can easily wrack up an additional 10k in gear pretty quickly if they want to make video that's better than Joe sixpack's next door. Like I said, what kind of camera does he have?

docwalker · April 6, 2007

I love the irony of your username Hindsight... Maybe that is an omen for me.

I cannot remember what vid cam model it is. I know that it is a Sony unit. I tried looking on the Sony site just now but naturally it is not on there. Like I said we bought it for him about 4 years ago. Maybe longer. I can check this weekend when I am back at their house.

As for the gear:
must have a nice tripod.. Check
and then comes NLE software Check
computer Check
case
the laptop Check
the laptop monitoring software
the firestore
the NTSC monitor
DVD burners Check
and media and printing
location lighting Some
and sound equipment Brother in law has that covered
extra batteries
stabilization devices Still looking at options
filters
adapters...

I think that this all might be a moot discussion at this point. The wife has voiced her opinion on the idea :nono. I am probably going to be stuck shooting stills and using dads camera for the wedding.

bsvirginian · April 7, 2007

I just had a thought. Back when Hi-8 was just coming into vogue I was in a tangent industry and was able to make a fairly good living shooting Hi-8 where the manpower and production costs of 3/4" or even 1/2" was somewhat prohibitive for small businesses. Basically I did what I called "down & dirty" productions for business and industry. Where a larger company would need a couple of weeks lead time to begin a project, I could do it a lot sooner and have a finished product within a week. I really got out of the business because (1) still photog was becoming busier and (2) "keeping up with the Jones'" was taking too much of a financial bite. Just some thoughts, bsvirginian

wxwax · April 9, 2007

doc, no-one here has any direct experience with using EOS lenses on a Canon video camera. They know it's possible, but have never actually done it, so don't know what the issues are. Sorry, wish I could be more helpful.

docwalker · April 9, 2007

wxwax wrote:

doc, no-one here has any direct experience with using EOS lenses on a Canon video camera.

I am having a hard time finding anyone online that has done it either.

docwalker · April 27, 2007

An update for those of you that are interested. I have come to a decision.

The appeal of the XL2 or the XL-H1 is the ability to change lenses. The XL2 is in my price range but it is a 4 years old design and does not offer HD. It's replacement is the XL-H1 but the price on it is prohibitive.

I really think that HD is important as the people I shoot for have HD TV sets. It would be foolish for me to give up that quality just to get the ability to slap on a lens that looses autofocus and autometering.

Given that, I have decided to pick up an XH-A1. It is a smaller version of the XL-H1 having almost all of the same features except for the interchangable lenses and shoulder pad. The zoom range on the XH-A1 is around 650mm when compared to 35mm. That is better than the 500mm F4L I have for the 5d.

The price is comfortable, the size and auto function are ones that the wife can handle easily. And the wife saw some video of a co-workers kids so now she is ok with the idea of getting the camera.

Thanks for the advice from the gurus.

I have a new dilemma... This is getting really old. Video Camera related

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