Katie

Ann McRae · June 16, 2007

Last night was grade nine grad for my daughter and her classmate. Katie was a beautiful baby, and has grown into a beautiful young lady..and I'm biased, but I believe it is true. Katie is 5'10" and feels quite uncomfortable with her height (she took her shoes off in most photos, and she slouches terribly), is really bright and can drive adults quite mad, and generally the only photos I get of her are on the soccer pitch.
Last night was a treat because the kids all wore party dresses, but not over the top gowns. I agreed to get her hair done.
I ran into two problems - way too many people & cameras, so I had no control over the groups or poses or positions of anything.
The other problem I discovered this morning - I thought I had the (new) 50 1.4 on, but in fact it was the 85 f1.8....no wonder I kept having to back up!

So a few for here, gallery here.

With her good friend, KT is 15 and Ciara is 17, and they are both forces on the soccer pitch:

I would like to hear about editing - advise and constructive critique very welcome.
ann

ShepsMom · June 16, 2007

Ann, great shots of beautiful girls!! On 1 and 2 there is a green tint, especially #2, you can see it on girl to the left (screen left). I love 3rd shot the best. Seems like mid day harsh sun was tough to tackle.

William M Porter · June 16, 2007

Ann McRae wrote:

Last night was grade nine grad for my daughter and her classmate. Katie was a beautiful baby, and has grown into a beautiful young lady..and I'm biased, but I believe it is true.

No need to apologize. She's lovely - and more to the point she's photogenic, seems not to be afraid of the camera. I have three beautiful daughters of my own. Two of them are photogenic - never seem to take a bad shot. The oldest daughter, however (now 27), feels self-conscious and it's hard to get a GOOD shot of her. To be honest, I'm the same way.

Anyway, I can relate to your experience, as I shot an eighth-grade graduation a few weeks ago. It's a tough assignment. The school whose graduation I was shooting is a Catholic school and the awards ceremony was part of a Mass, so it was all done in the church. Lighting is awful - low but also variable. Flash was a no-no during the ceremonial part of the evening; and afterwards, while flash was possible, I found it tricky to get things right as the settings were so varied - outside, tall cielings, low cielings, etc.

I ran into two problems - way too many people & cameras, so I had no control over the groups or poses or positions of anything.

Yep, that's a tough one. Even when you have status as the official photographer, competing with other photographers can be a pain. I didn't have a lot of competition during the ceremony itself, thank goodness, but afterwards, well, it was nearly hopeless. I was not expected to take charge, pose shots, etc., so I didn't. If it had been a wedding, it would be a different story. Sometimes you simply have to assert yourself in order to get the job done. I think you did a pretty good job. Helps that you were able to concentrate on a single subject.

The other problem I discovered this morning - I thought I had the (new) 50 1.4 on, but in fact it was the 85 f1.8....no wonder I kept having to back up!

That's never happened to me. ;-)

But to be honest, are you saying that you took all these with an 85mm lens? I'm surprised you did as well as you did - which is pretty well indeed - with a lens that seems to me about one-third longer than ideal for these shots. I did my graduation shoot (linked above) mainly with two lenses: a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 and a Pentax 50mm f/1.4. I prefer to use the 50mm when my distance from the subject is something I can really control - which was not the case here. The Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 is almost as fast, almost as sharp in the mid-range as the Pentax prime, and more versatile.

I'd be happy with this shot generally. Light playing on her hair - and on the flowers and leaves in the background - is charming. But to get picky: It would have been nice if you'd had a little more breathing room around the subject, especially on the right side. It's difficult to compose the image flawlessly in a tiny viewfinder, but we have to try, and I also try to leave a little wiggle room for later adjustment of print size, etc. I suppose that's a problem due in part to using the too-long lens. Perhaps you could have moved the camera a degree or to to the right, in order to get her centered better. Also, I suspect the shot could be given a bit more "punch" in your post-processing software. In Adobe Lightroom, I think I'd pull the darker mid-tones down a bit, just a bit.

With her good friend, KT is 15 and Ciara is 17, and they are both forces on the soccer pitch:....

Very nice shot, good expressions. I'd be happy with it.

The next shot, of the six girls lined up by a wall, is quite acceptable, but again, to be picky: Not all the girls seem to be looking at you. Sometimes that's actually rather a nice effect. I can think of some great (American) Civil War group shots with one officer staring at the camera while another looks off into the distance. But in this shot, it seems to me that the third young lady from the left (with the dark dress) is probably looking at another photographer. If that's the way the cookie crumbled, it's not a huge deal. The solution isn't technical, it's personal: wait for the other photographers and then demand the subjects all look at you. Long time ago, I was better at this people-management stuff than I am now. I'm having to relearn it. Another point: the sun is illuminating the ladies unevenly, and that's a problem for a group shot. The young lady on the right seems to be squinting because the sun's in her eyes, and the two girls on the right are reflecting the sun more evidently than the girls on the left. If you could have gotten the sun to shine more brightly just on your daughter, well, THAT would have been a nice effect.

Moving to the shot of the five girls on the bench. Again, it's generally a nice shot. Nicely composed, everybody looks lovely, and everybody's looking at you. Two points.

First, from the photo you included here, it LOOKS to me as if the girl sitting to the right of your daughter is ever so slightly out of focus. Perhaps she moved at the moment you pressed the shutter? Perhaps YOU moved a tad? Can't see the EXIF info for these shots so don't know what speed this was taken at, although given the good light, I would expect it was a fast enough shutter to have frozen the shot nicely. Maybe it's just the compression of the image as you posted it and I'm mistaken; I'd have to see the blow-up to be sure.

Second, the dark-haired young lady in back on the left tends to draw the attention to herself and away from your daughter, who clearly OUGHT to be the center of attention here. Not sure what you can do about that. Dark hair and dark, dramatic eyes tend to be attention grabbers. It might have helped if she had relaxed just a bit. She seems to be staring quite intently at the camera and is communicating greater "energy" or tension than the other girls. I've taken lots of shots like this myself, where one subject steals the scene. As I get more confident technically, I try to spend more time with my face NOT behind the camera, visualizing the outcome. I don't know that it would have occurred to me at the time, but after staring at your photo for a minute, I wonder if it wouldn't have helped to move the young lady in the blue dress to the other side of your daughter. Her blue dress is also a bit of an attention-grabber. I wonder if experienced pros see these kinds of things in a glance. I suspect that they do. I can see them, but I have to think for a second. And in real life, we usually cannot count on the cooperation and patience of our models quite so much.

I said I had two points to make about this shot, but permit me to add a third: This shot too could, in my opinion, benefit from a bit more contrast, achieved by lowering the darker mid-tones mainly. Would not want to lower the shadows too much as it would simply make the girl with the dark hair even MORE dramatic!

Parting shot: Did you experiment with a black and white treatment of any of these photos? I am very fond of black and white. Our eyes compensate for color variations instantly and effectively but when we look at photos, without the wider context outside the frame, sometimes a bit of color proves distracting, even though it wasn't in real life. If the color info isn't essential - and it often isn't - then black and white treatment may allow you to emphasize the excellences of your composition and the form of the subjects and minimize chromatic or textural distractions. Here's a shot from a volleyball game taken last April. I converted the entire shoot (or nearly) to black and white. The girls were wearing purple and gold uniforms and the gym had a purple and gold color theme. The colors were overwhelming - but converting to black and white solved the problem and put the focus back where it belongs, on the girls.

I would like to hear about editing - advise and constructive critique very welcome.

Please take everything I say with a big grain of salt, and accept my compliments on the photos generally. I enjoyed looking at the whole gallery. I'll be interested to see what others say. My own graduation shoot has photos that suffer from much worse problems. I was having auto-focus problems and some shots are just OOF, people didn't stand where I expected them to stand and I nearly missed shots. It's a hard job! I think you did well.

Will

Ann McRae · June 17, 2007

Hi Marina

That green tinge is funny - I didn't see it until you mentioned it, and can only see it on this montor if I am standing i.e straight on I do not see it. Of course, I'll look at it in the editor with the eye dropper. Thanks for pointing it out.

Now, since this is Edmonton in June, that harsh sun was at 7:30 p.m.!!! The group shot on the bench was after 9 p.m.!

Thanks for looking - they are quite a pretty bunch aren't they!

ShepsMom wrote:

Ann, great shots of beautiful girls!! On 1 and 2 there is a green tint, especially #2, you can see it on girl to the left (screen left). I love 3rd shot the best. Seems like mid day harsh sun was tough to tackle.

Ann McRae · June 17, 2007

Hi William

Thanks for the thoughtful, wonderful feedback. I am thinking of getting into family portraiture and this will be helpful for me. I am pleased with all of them, especially given the fact that I was basically on call: Mommy, take our picture, mommy, take a picture of me with... mommy.....

I finally asked her to gather her group together and come outside to the courtyard, and out she came with the whole class plus a zillion other cameras.

ann

saurora · June 17, 2007

You're not just biased Ann, you're absolutely right! She is a stunning girl! Someday she will learn to appreciate her height, at this age they just don't want to 'stand out'. I think you did really well under the circumstances. I really like the last shot of the group. All the technical stuff seems to have been covered, but I would add that they will make awesome black and whites as well as color, and I think using black and white unifies a group shot so nicely when everyone is wearing different colors and patterns. I'm finding a lot of young people prefer black and white. I'm working some shots up from a birthday party last night and everyone was asking for b&w.

Scott_Quier · June 18, 2007

I have to agree with Susan on a number of points:

Katie is a gorgeoous young lady. So, there, you have at least two others that back you in your biased opinion.
Young ladies who either bloom early or attain stature ahead of their peers tend to avoid standing straight. It usually passes with time. In the mean-time, mothers and photographers are always on them to stand straighter and pull their shoulders back. Seldom works for long.
I have been seeing a rise in demand/acceptance for B&W photogrpahs. It's almost like B&W is the new color, to coin a phrase.
Finally, lovely photogrpahs. I really like the closeness (friendly feel) of #2 and the group photograph is just so ... "there".

pyrtek · June 18, 2007

Scott_Quier wrote:

Katie is a gorgeoous young lady. So, there, you have at least two others that back you in your biased opinion.

Let's make that three.

BHarvey2 · June 18, 2007

Ann,

I'm a NOOB but have been lurking for quite some time. I too just did some Junior High Grad photos for one son and grammar school grad photos for another. It's been a busy week. WOW, all those pretty girls in one place photos should be a breeze. They look great but I also noticed the green cast in one of the photos. On another note regarding your daughter's worries about being too tall: tell her to fret not. My wife, who's been putting up with me for over 20 years is 6' and I'm only 5'4".

Ann McRae · June 19, 2007

Hi, and thanks. I cannot get over the fact that she is smiling, rather than pulling goofy faces in these. I had not considered b&w, but ill surely give it a try.

ann

Ann McRae · June 19, 2007

Scott

Thank you very much. Another vote for b & w, eh. I will try it. I am very fond of both 2 and 4 - and unfortunately, do not really have one of her alone that is quite so good. Oh well, as I mentioned (more than once) she does not cooperate very often so I am thrilled to have one, let alone many.

ann

Ann McRae · June 19, 2007

Thanks, Bernard!

ann

pyrtek wrote:

Let's make that three.

Ann McRae · June 20, 2007

Hi

Welcome to dgrin!!!

Are you going to post your shots? Would love to see them.

ann

BHarvey2 wrote:

Ann,

I'm a NOOB but have been lurking for quite some time. I too just did some Junior High Grad photos for one son and grammar school grad photos for another. It's been a busy week. WOW, all those pretty girls in one place photos should be a breeze. They look great but I also noticed the green cast in one of the photos. On another note regarding your daughter's worries about being too tall: tell her to fret not. My wife, who's been putting up with me for over 20 years is 6' and I'm only 5'4".

BHarvey2 · June 20, 2007

Ann,

Thanks for the welcome and the interest. I'd like to post but first I'll have to figure out how to do it. Second, I've gone from casual photographer at my sons' swim team meets to official portrait photographer and I'm trying to finish these up this week and get them distributed. I'll have to search through some of the photos to find some good ones. The bar is pretty high around here. Hopefully I'll be ready to go next week.

Thanks,

Brian

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi

Welcome to dgrin!!!

Are you going to post your shots? Would love to see them.

ann

Flyinggina · June 20, 2007

Your daughter's gorgeous! And very photogenic. I'll bet she and her friends love these photos!!

Virginia

Ann McRae · June 21, 2007

Hi Brian

The casual photographer to portrait photographer is a familiar road! Good luck. Hope to se some of your work soon.

ann

BHarvey2 wrote:

Ann,

Thanks for the welcome and the interest. I'd like to post but first I'll have to figure out how to do it. Second, I've gone from casual photographer at my sons' swim team meets to official portrait photographer and I'm trying to finish these up this week and get them distributed. I'll have to search through some of the photos to find some good ones. The bar is pretty high around here. Hopefully I'll be ready to go next week.

Thanks,

Brian

Ann McRae · June 21, 2007

Thanks, Virginia. I do thin they like them. I asked what the difference between mine and all the others was, and she said "Well, first of all yours are in focus!"

ann

Flyinggina wrote:

Your daughter's gorgeous! And very photogenic. I'll bet she and her friends love these photos!!

Virginia

Katie

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