Buying a new Flash

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 18, 2007

Ok I've waited long enought... I've been using the Sigma 500 DG flash(es). I have 3 of them and though they all work ok, I'm always fooling around with them to get them to work or not mis-fire or even fire at all.

I've decided to do a serious upgrade! Here is where all my friends at dgrin come in.

I'm trying to choose from these 3 systems.

1. Canon 580EX II with new Quantum battery pack and bracket,

2. Quantum QFlash w/ Bracket

3. Metz 76 MZ-5 Digital with battery pack and bracket.

Cost wise I'm looking at $1000 give or take by the time I have battery pack and bracket. I'm okay with whatever the cost is going to be so with money aside, what are your opinions?

pathfinder · June 18, 2007

Have you considered the Canon CP-E3 battery pack?

With 8 AA Lithium batteries it will run for days, is small, lightweight, and will mount to a camera base or a bracket. Not that expensive either at $139. And it plugs right into a 580ex without any adapters.

Correction as an addendum ( courtesy of rosselliott). Should be the CP-E4 for the 580EX II. Costs $149 also

rosselliot · June 18, 2007

I just recently got the 580EX II - the best thing I've ever bought - completely changed the way I take photographs! (and most definitely for the better!!!!)

the best decision you'll make, I guaruntee it.

- RE

rosselliot · June 18, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

Have you considered the Canon CP-E3 battery pack?

With 8 AA Lithium batteries it will run for days, is small, lightweight, and will mount to a camera base or a bracket. Not that expensive either at $139. And it plugs right into a 580ex without any adapters.

btw, just so you don't buy the wrong thing - you'll need to buy the cp-e4 for the 580 EX II the cp-e3 is for the 580 EX only. and I'd definitely recommend buying the canon battery pack - buy from the source...they were made next to each other, they'll be compatible.

- RE

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 18, 2007

Thanks for that! I think that is the way I'll go versus the very expensive battery packs by quantum. I have 2 of them now. They take 8 hours to charge and don't last too terribly long. Having the flexibility of the AA's sounds like the best option!

I'll buy two

pathfinder wrote:

Have you considered the Canon CP-E3 battery pack?

With 8 AA Lithium batteries it will run for days, is small, lightweight, and will mount to a camera base or a bracket. Not that expensive either at $139. And it plugs right into a 580ex without any adapters.

pathfinder · June 18, 2007

Thanks for the heads up and correction, Ross. The price is 10 bucks higher too I notice for the CP-E4:D

pathfinder · June 18, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Thanks for that! I think that is the way I'll go versus the very expensive battery packs by quantum. I have 2 of them now. They take 8 hours to charge and don't last too terribly long. Having the flexibility of the AA's sounds like the best option!

I'll buy two

Unless they are going on seperate cameras and flashes, you do not necessarily need two. You can just buy the tray that holds a second set of batteries and swap them out instantly. Only $43.95 for the tray by itself. Then you could use rechargealbe Li AAs and be in business. I use the disposeable Li AAs as they last a long time and I don't have to putz with recharging them

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 19, 2007

Oh I meant one for each camera.... my fiancee shoots with me so I usually have to purchase 2 of everything

pathfinder wrote:

, you do not necessarily need two.

ziggy53 · June 19, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Ok I've waited long enought... I've been using the Sigma 500 DG flash(es). I have 3 of them and though they all work ok, I'm always fooling around with them to get them to work or not mis-fire or even fire at all.

...

I'm a little concerned here because I have 2 Sigma 500 DG Super flashes that I use with both Canon 350D/XT and 1D MKII bodies. The only time I have problems is using them in soem kind of "slave" operation where the remote slave sometimes goes full-power in the Commander-Slave configuration. Otherwise I have absolutely no problems with using them attached directly or via off-camera cord.

Are you meaning that they don't recycle fast enough for your application? If so, I agree with the upgrade to a faster recycling system since the Sigma flashes have no power options for faster recycling.

The Canon 580EX (II) is probably your bext bet if you need E-TTL II capability. I don't trust the Quantum TTL (or E-TTL) or the Metz E-TTL implementations for digital. Auto modes seem to work OK (it is predictable behavior, not always correct) as does manual mode.

The Quantum is really best thought of as a portable monolight. (IMHO)

The Canon also has a very nice vesion of the focus-assist light, greatly improved over the Sigma units. The Quantum units can supply a focus assist light only with the digital E-TTL module, which I wouldn't trust. I am not sure about the Metz and focus assist.

Scott_Quier · June 19, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

The only time I have problems is using them in soem kind of "slave" operation where the remote slave sometimes goes full-power in the Commander-Slave configuration. Otherwise I have absolutely no problems with using them attached directly or via off-camera cord.

The one issue I have with the Simga flash is that it will not hold the high-speed synch setting from one shot to the next. According to the user's manual (and experimentation has shown it to be true), when you set the flash to high-speed synch and make an exposure, the flash will revert to "normal" mode. This can get irritating in a hurry if you are shooting outdoors and you need that capability on a continuing basis.

Aside from that, the Sigma is a good, lower cost, alternative to the Canon 580EX flash.

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 19, 2007

Ziggy, I have 3 of the Sigma Flashes (one Super and the other two ST). As an alternative to the Canon I'm not sure they can be beat. I have cut the doors down to allow me to use my quantum 1+ batteries with them and they work fine. The continued problem I have with all of them is mis-fires. I've had a couple times where it would just quit. Always at the worst possible time. I've had it happen during a ceremony. I had to pull the flash off, lick the post, rub it on my shirt and get going again...

The are great flashes.. I've just had such inconsistant luck with them.

ziggy53 wrote:

I'm a little concerned here because I have 2 Sigma 500 DG Super flashes that I use with both Canon 350D/XT and 1D MKII bodies. The only time I have problems is using them in soem kind of "slave" operation where the remote slave sometimes goes full-power in the Commander-Slave configuration. Otherwise I have absolutely no problems with using them attached directly or via off-camera cord.

Are you meaning that they don't recycle fast enough for your application? If so, I agree with the upgrade to a faster recycling system since the Sigma flashes have no power options for faster recycling.

The Canon 580EX (II) is probably your bext bet if you need E-TTL II capability. I don't trust the Quantum TTL (or E-TTL) or the Metz E-TTL implementations for digital. Auto modes seem to work OK (it is predictable behavior, not always correct) as does manual mode.

The Quantum is really best thought of as a portable monolight. (IMHO)

The Canon also has a very nice vesion of the focus-assist light, greatly improved over the Sigma units. The Quantum units can supply a focus assist light only with the digital E-TTL module, which I wouldn't trust. I am not sure about the Metz and focus assist.

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 20, 2007

Problem solved! Today I purchased the Canon 580EX II. Along with the off shoe camera, Stroboframe (if I spelled it right) and the CP-E3 battery pack. I have to exchange the CP-E3 for the CP-E4 for the EX II. I told the guy the E3 wouldnt' work (that's all they had in stock) and he said it will work... Well it doesn't. I need the CP-E4. Once I exchange that I should be in business.. until then, it's batteries.

patch29 · June 20, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Problem solved! Today I purchased the Canon 580EX II. Along with the off shoe camera, Stroboframe (if I spelled it right) and the CP-E3 battery pack. I have to exchange the CP-E3 for the CP-E4 for the EX II. I told the guy the E3 wouldnt' work (that's all they had in stock) and he said it will work... Well it doesn't. I need the CP-E4. Once I exchange that I should be in business.. until then, it's batteries.

Odd, what is it that does not allow the CP-E3 to work with the 580EX II? Canon even lists it here as compatible. I could see it not being as weather-proof, but I would think it would still work. I currently have CP-E3's and have been looking to upgrade to a 580EX II and I would want to be able to use those.

timandsun · June 20, 2007

timandsun
I have used a Metz 60-ct4 for years and it works great with my 30d. I just set the color temp. to 5600, check the histograms and adjust from there.

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 20, 2007

Very interesting... it is listed... hmmmm maybe I have a bad one!

I have it all loaded up with batteries... I plug it into the flash... and no power. Am I missing something?

patch29 wrote:

Odd, what is it that does not allow the CP-E3 to work with the 580EX II? Canon even lists it here as compatible. I could see it not being as weather-proof, but I would think it would still work. I currently have CP-E3's and have been looking to upgrade to a 580EX II and I would want to be able to use those.

patch29 · June 20, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Very interesting... it is listed... hmmmm maybe I have a bad one!

I have it all loaded up with batteries... I plug it into the flash... and no power. Am I missing something?

the batteries are all good and the right direction? batteries in the flash too? If it plugs in I would think it would work.

What does the manual say about accessories?

pathfinder · June 20, 2007

Patch - your link from Canon contains conflicting information.

The small text at the bottom of the Specifications link says the CP-E3 works with the 580ex II, but when you click on the Accessories link, it lists the CP-E4 as the battery pack, NOT the CP-E3. I don't think the right hand knows what the left hand is doing here.

I am afraid to say it, but I think someone at Canon saw this as a revenue enhancement opportunity. Don't you just hate it when companies make changes in small items so you have to repurchase them again?? Think battery chargers for cell phones - seems like every one is different and all they do is supply 6 volts or so.

I own a 580ex and a CP-E3, and was looking forward to purchasing a 580ex II to complement my system this summer. But if the CP-E3 will not work with it, I will reconsider. There is no way I will purchase both a CP-E3 and then turn around and buy a CP-E4. Come on guys, 12 volts is 12 volts...

Addendum: Turns out the CP-E3 does work with the newer 580ex II. It is just not weather sealed - that is what the 10 bucks is for. Canon was looking out for us after all. My apologies.

patch29 · June 20, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

Patch - your link from Canon contains conflicting information.

The small text at the bottom of the Specifications link says the CP-E3 works with the 580ex II, but when you click on the Accessories link, it lists the CP-E4 as the battery pack, NOT the CP-E3. I don't think the right hand knows what the left hand is doing here.

They also don't list the CP-E3 or E2 anywhere or the older 580 EX, so I would not assume it does not work. I'll see if I can do some testing or find one to test.

patch29 · June 20, 2007

I saw a thread on dpreview where some users were using the CP-E3.

One thing I do not like, is the lack of the master/slave switch. I have read that it is now in a menu. I wonder how much it will take to get to it.

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 21, 2007

Uh oh... batteries in the flash too? Maybe I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have have any batteries in the flash, just the battery pack? Is that my problem?

patch29 wrote:

the batteries are all good and the right direction? batteries in the flash too? If it plugs in I would think it would work.

What does the manual say about accessories?

3rdPlanetPhotography · June 21, 2007

Well I'll be!!!

%$#%$#^%#^%$#^!!!!!!

I put batteries in the flash and in the battery pack and it works just fine! The light comes on in the battery pack just like it should. I can understand that those batteries are needed in the flash to complete the circuit.. but thinking that I was using a battery pack with a plug into the flash I didn't even guess the battery bay on the flash meant anything...... Well stupid me!

So for the record the CP-E3 DOES work with the 580EX II.

Thanks everyone!:D

patch29 · June 21, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Well I'll be!!!

%$#%$#^%#^%$#^!!!!!!

I put batteries in the flash and in the battery pack and it works just fine! The light comes on in the battery pack just like it should. I can understand that those batteries are needed in the flash to complete the circuit.. but thinking that I was using a battery pack with a plug into the flash I didn't even guess the battery bay on the flash meant anything...... Well stupid me!

So for the record the CP-E3 DOES work with the 580EX II.

Thanks everyone!:D

I think there are setting to dictate which batteries draw the most power, somewhere in the flash options.

Can you tell how many steps it would take to access the master/slave function to turn it on or off?

patch29 · June 21, 2007

I found the answer to my own question.

What is not faster to use - what I don't like - is the now-menu-located off/master/slave remote flash setting (notice the switch is missing in the above picture - more about this function later). To get to this menu setting requires the zoom button to be held for 2 seconds - I could change the old switch in much less time than it now takes just to pull up the menu setting.

from this source, which has a nice review/comparison of the 580 flashes, with side by side photos.

pathfinder · June 21, 2007

Seems like Canon's choice of naming this flash the 580ex II was a poor decision in several ways.

The II adds confusion with the ETTL-II component.

The new flash has several real differences between the 580ex and itself. It is not just a better sealed version of the 580ex, but even offers new modalities of use ( Auto and Manual External that only works on the 1DMkIII - Maybe a hint of things in the 1DsMIII also??) , as well as a metal foot, different switches, and different menus.

Still, it sounds like a very appealing device, and one that I will purchase. Just a little more to learn than I expected from the name.

pathfinder · June 21, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Well I'll be!!!

%$#%$#^%#^%$#^!!!!!!

I put batteries in the flash and in the battery pack and it works just fine! The light comes on in the battery pack just like it should. I can understand that those batteries are needed in the flash to complete the circuit.. but thinking that I was using a battery pack with a plug into the flash I didn't even guess the battery bay on the flash meant anything...... Well stupid me!

So for the record the CP-E3 DOES work with the 580EX II.

Thanks everyone!:D

I think the batteries are needed in the flash to trun it on or something, before it draws power from the external battery pack. I am used to this - I have a Garmin 276c that will run on 12 volt external power, but needs to have its internal rechargeable battery not entirely discharged in order to turn itself on when the power switch is depressed and connected to external 12 volt power line.

The CP-E4 is weather sealed to match the newer 580ex II, the CP-E3 is not weather sealed. That explains the 10 dollar difference in price. Not just a greedy corporation.

I feel so much better now

lol3

ziggy53 · June 21, 2007

3rdPlanetPhotography wrote:

Well I'll be!!!

%$#%$#^%#^%$#^!!!!!!

I put batteries in the flash and in the battery pack and it works just fine! The light comes on in the battery pack just like it should. I can understand that those batteries are needed in the flash to complete the circuit.. but thinking that I was using a battery pack with a plug into the flash I didn't even guess the battery bay on the flash meant anything...... Well stupid me!

So for the record the CP-E3 DOES work with the 580EX II.

Thanks everyone!:D

Many flashes that allow external battery packs for faster recharging, still need the on-board batteries to control the flash itself. It would seem that the external packs are only used to supply power to the charging circuits, not the control circuits. There is probably a very good engineering design reason why this is done (but I don't know what the reason is.)

Buying a new Flash

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