ideas on handling this?

dogwood · June 21, 2007

Shot an event Sunday and posted everything on my SM site (with HEAVY watermarking). One of the folks I photographed contacted me asking me to email him photos. I responded saying they are for sale and he can purchase them from my site. His response? "That sucks."

Okay, so I took the high road and told him I'm sorry he feels that way but my equipment and all is not free and I'm merely trying to recover my expenses (I'm charging $6.99 for a 5x7).

So then we email back and forth-- he doesn't have a credit card so he borrowed a friend's card (I swear I'm not making this up) and surprise, surprise, the card was declined. The guy emails me, blaming my website and saying there is no reason for the CC to be declined and demanding to know if the card was charged. I write back telling him he needs to check with the bank and I assure him other people have successfully been placing orders on my site this week.

Yes, this is a LONG intro but we've emailed back and forth at least a dozen times and I want you to get a sense of just how much time I've wasted on this. The latest email is from the guy asking if he can send me a money order and I can mail him the prints.

So finally-- my question. How should I handle this? Obviously, if he sends a money order, I'll need to place the order for him using my own CC. So should I charge a $10 handling fee plus the print fee plus shipping? Or just tell him he has to use a legit CC to place the order through my site?

In all honesty, I'm ready to just ignore him and move on. I mean-- how hard is it to place an order on the internet these days?

S. Horton · June 21, 2007

At the end of the day, it is a customer. An unprofitable one, to be sure, but a customer nonetheless. So, a shipping/handling fee to cover added costs is the right thing to do.

Perhaps the order to you is a screenshot of the SM cart, filled with whatever he wants, just to be sure.

I do hope he's ordering more than one pic!

rdlugosz · June 21, 2007

Unless this guy is making a huge order you've already wasted too much of your time on him. Tell him that the only way to order is via the website and move on.

Besides, he probably just wants your mailing address so that he can come over and beat you up.

dogwood · June 21, 2007

rdlugosz wrote:

Besides, he probably just wants your mailing address so that he can come over and beat you up.

Yeah, well I would never dream of providing my home address for something like this. Fortunately, I have a day job and can use that address-- and we have a receptionist and security doors that require a card key. Nah-- not foolproof, but better nothing.

urbanaries · June 21, 2007

people amaze me. sheesh!

DavidTO · June 21, 2007

S. Horton wrote:

At the end of the day, it is a customer. An unprofitable one, to be sure, but a customer nonetheless.

Meh. If he can't come up with a valid CC by himself or through a friend, or parent then what kind of customer is that?

dragon300zx · June 21, 2007

I'd let him send a check or money order. WHEN IT CLEARED, I would get the print at the lowest cost local place available that does a decent job, and mail it out. Money is money, and no everyone has credit or debit cards. At least at this point he is trying to pay for it. By getting the print at the lowest cost place locally you aren't having to use your card, also adjust your price accordingly to the cost of printing it locally.

And I would leave it at that, waste no more time if he can't see you going out of your way to provide a good service to him. Or I would offer up paypal as an option.

Angelo · June 21, 2007

What don't I understand about this nagging problem?

Pete:

This guy is a SM customer not your customer. Why would he contact you directly. Why would you want to deal with him directly?

If you had an exhibit of prints at an art gallery who would the customer be dealing with?

dogwood · June 21, 2007

dragon300zx wrote:

By getting the print at the lowest cost place locally you aren't having to use your card, also adjust your price accordingly to the cost of printing it locally.

Well, just want to point out that this means I would actually be providing a very custom service-- getting the file to a local place like say Costco, then waiting for it to be printed, then either mailing the print or meeting him to give it to him. This seems like WAY beyond the services I currently offer and seems like a custom service. Even if I can e-mail the file(s) to a local lab and have them mail it out, this is again more work than I presently would need to do if he had a valid credit card.

After all, if your CC is declined at a store, they usually don't offer to mail you the merchandise later if you send them a money order, right? What I'm struggling with is the fact that you can usually send a check or money order to a big retailer like REI and they'll mail you the item you want. I think I'm just too small to offer that as a service, though.

So I'll go with the "order from my website is the only option" response. I'll brace myself for the "I can't, it declines my friend's card for no reason" reply. Thank you everyone for your replies. I often struggle with the business aspect of photography and just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a huge mistake to blow this guy off. And yeah-- he does only want a couple of prints and I can almost 100-percent guarantee they'll be the smallest size (and least profitable) I offer.

dogwood · June 21, 2007

Angelo wrote:

What don't I understand about this nagging problem?

Pete:

This guy is a SM customer not your customer. Why would he contact you directly. Why would you want to deal with him directly?

If you had an exhibit of prints at an art gallery who would the customer be dealing with?

Angelo:

I actually see it differently. SM didn't shoot the photos and post them on my website. I personally have lobbied SM many times for more control over print sales (packaging, coupons, etc) and try to provide personalized service to everyone. For example, everyone who orders from my site gets a personalized thank you email (not cut and paste, I actually write an individual thank you to each person). I find this often pays off in the end-- but I don't think that's the case this time!

UP N MTNS · June 22, 2007

Peter it seems you've already done what you could for this guy.... I have a feeling he wont be to happy to pay any kind of extra handling fee for your time and effort..

If it was me I'd tell him you can only do orders via CC at this time, sorry for any inconvenience this has caused....etc...etc

bsvirginian · June 22, 2007

Just a couple of thoughts. What kind of event? Were you charging per sitting or was it just general coverage of the event. Or how did he get you email address. In my case (since memory isn't too great) I have a standard shipping and handling cost for any project. Maybe the fact that a single 5x7 is too inexpensive to consider as an order might lead you to believe that you need to raise your prices. bsvirginian

Angelo · June 22, 2007

dogwood wrote:

Angelo:

I actually see it differently. SM didn't shoot the photos and post them on my website. I personally have lobbied SM many times for more control over print sales (packaging, coupons, etc) and try to provide personalized service to everyone. For example, everyone who orders from my site gets a personalized thank you email (not cut and paste, I actually write an individual thank you to each person). I find this often pays off in the end-- but I don't think that's the case this time!

I think that's admirable and I've done the same but why oh why do you want to be a print merchant rather than concentrate on your art?

dogwood · June 22, 2007

Angelo wrote:

I think that's admirable and I've done the same but why oh why do you want to be a print merchant rather than concentrate on your art?

Angelo:

Simple answer-- concentrating on my art usually doesn't earn me any money.

Seriously, the whole 'print merchant' deal is part of my photography business plan-- I'm still working a day job to pay the bills, but it's nice to sell prints on the side and that money can add up. I'm not getting enough paid photography work at this point to ignore the potential of print sales. And SM makes it pretty easy... this situation in this thread is the first real hassle I've faced. Ironically, this shoot was a paid event shoot by the organizer (and it was anything but art!), but I figured I'd sell some prints to the participants since several of them asked me how to get copies of the photos. I always carry a pocketful of business cards to hand out at events if someone asks.

Angelo · June 22, 2007

dogwood wrote:

Angelo:

Simple answer-- concentrating on my art usually doesn't earn me any money.

Seriously, the whole 'print merchant' deal is part of my photography business plan-- I'm still working a day job to pay the bills, but it's nice to sell prints on the side and that money can add up. I'm not getting enough paid photography work at this point to ignore the potential of print sales. And SM makes it pretty easy... this situation in this thread is the first real hassle I've faced. Ironically, this shoot was a paid event shoot by the organizer (and it was anything but art!), but I figured I'd sell some prints to the participants since several of them asked me how to get copies of the photos. I always carry a pocketful of business cards to hand out at events if someone asks.

You are completely missing my point!

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't sell prints.

I just don't understand why you would bother to set up a smugmug account and webpage and then micro-manage the minutia of a print sale with one troublesome client.

Let smugmug handle the problem; that's what they're there for.

When I said "concentrate on your art" I meant that you should shoot to your heart's content, process, then load the images and then... walk away... let smugmug handle the inquiries, sales, complaints, etc.

I applaud your efforts and wish you all the best but if you let stuff like this bog you down you will drown in it.

rosselliot · June 23, 2007

personally, I have to agree with angelo, there's a reason Smugmug takes 15% of our profit from photos - and that's because we can send crap that the problem your having straight to them and never have to worry about it.

- RE

dogwood · June 24, 2007

Angelo wrote:

I just don't understand why you would bother to set up a smugmug account and webpage and then micro-manage the minutia of a print sale with one troublesome client.

Let smugmug handle the problem; that's what they're there for.

Angelo:

Yeah, good point. I'm actually done with the problem-- but I'm responding here so you don't think I'm totally missing the point-- and that I did see your comments.

I did actually send the guy the smugmug help email-- but I'll admit I did waste too much time micro-managing. I've since dropped the micro-managing (and learned a great lesson in the process) and decided I only sell prints/downloads through my website. If that means someone needs a valid CC to purchase, that's fine with me. If they have to ask SM why their CC wasn't accepted, that's fine too.

I do much appreciate the comments. I'm still learning the ropes and the comments of yours and others really help. I promise, if this ever happens again, I'll get right to the point and send a single email reply saying something like, "I only sell through my website, which is hosted by smugmug. If you have problems placing an order, please contact them at help@smugmug.com"

Does that sound a little more like I'm getting your point (I hope?)

Angelo · June 24, 2007

dogwood wrote:

Angelo:

Yeah, good point. I'm actually done with the problem-- but I'm responding here so you don't think I'm totally missing the point-- and that I did see your comments.

I did actually send the guy the smugmug help email-- but I'll admit I did waste too much time micro-managing. I've since dropped the micro-managing (and learned a great lesson in the process) and decided I only sell prints/downloads through my website. If that means someone needs a valid CC to purchase, that's fine with me. If they have to ask SM why their CC wasn't accepted, that's fine too.

I do much appreciate the comments. I'm still learning the ropes and the comments of yours and others really help. I promise, if this ever happens again, I'll get right to the point and send a single email reply saying something like, "I only sell through my website, which is hosted by smugmug. If you have problems placing an order, please contact them at help@smugmug.com"

Does that sound a little more like I'm getting your point (I hope?)

absolutely! good luck

claudermilk · June 25, 2007

I think this is good advice for all of us who are selling prints through SM. Thanks for sharing the situation and allowing many of us to learn vicariously.

Mike Lane · June 28, 2007

It looks like you guys came up with the right consensus. Just send people our way and we'll handle it for you. We had a guy actually snail mail (get this) four $1 bills stapled to a note saying "I want a 4x6 of picture so and so" to EZ Prints.

EZ prints actually got the money and forwarded it on to us and we placed the order for him. Note to everyone, please don't do this!

Anyhow, we'll micro-manage your orders for you. Don't worry, we treat your (and our) customers like gold!

jdryan3 · June 28, 2007

rosselliot wrote:

personally, I have to agree with angelo, there's a reason Smugmug takes 15% of our profit from photos - and that's because we can send crap that the problem your having straight to them and never have to worry about it.

- RE

Which is typical of any situation where one has a separate business manager or agnet. You are paying them to do this. Accounts Receivable gets customers to pay - not the sales rep. That way the relationship between the customer & rep is not jeopardized. Good cop, bad cop if you will.

ideas on handling this?

Comments