Show me hope!!

LiquidOps · February 11, 2005

ok.... this is kind of starting to get me down lately... Bare with me if this is a rant, but yeah... i've just finished my Triple Grande White Chocolate Mocha, so i've got stuff on my mind....

here it goes...

I'm kind of getting discouraged lately with my photography. It seems I always want to acheive something more, but just can't reach it, weather distance or speed. I've been happy with my Sony F717 with Sony 1.7xtcon for a while, but now, i keep seeing all these awesome pictures taken by the DSLR's and Andy's ever changing, top of the line, stuff, and I want more. I want to be able to capture life the way the rest of you seem to be able to.

I know, I know... it's not the equipment, it's the photographer, but still... there's a certain point where the equipment starts to limit one. If this wasn't true, then there would only be one camera on the market.

POTD, POTW, Challenge Winners..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Envy... yeah... that's part of life... Just really discouraged lately... There is no way I can afford the higher equipment...

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

again... sorry to rant.... just discouraged

Steven

marlof · February 11, 2005

Hi Steven, I recognize your statement quite well, and there's two words I'd like to say to you: Norman Rich.

The linked gallery is shot with your type of camera. This is just an example of the excellent work done with those cameras, but it's one that opened my eyes. That type of camera sure is capable of capturing life as you see it. I know that when I first saw these images, I put my plans on spending EUR 2500 on gear for my out-of-control hobby in the fridge, and determined myself first to get a better quality of pictures with my current gear. Sure, I am still dreaming of getting that great DSLR with super glass one time. But thanks to images like Norman's I refound that I could enjoy photography with my current setup as well.

LiquidOps · February 11, 2005

yeah...

he has captured some great things... I do agree... I just see all the wonderful pictures people have captured here, and all the great praise they get and such. Then i go to post a picture and wonder if it's even worthy when I get no comments.

I'll get over this... I just get discouraged... lense envy... yeah I know... everyone has it...

Part of this hobby I guess...

Thanks for the words of encouragement....

Steven

marlinspike · February 11, 2005

It depends on what you take pictures of. If you do sports, the camera is often a huge limitation. If you shoot low available light stuff, again the camera is a huge limitation. There are a lot of things where the camera isn't a huge limitation, but there are also some where it is.
Richard

snapapple · February 11, 2005

marlinspike wrote:

It depends on what you take pictures of. If you do sports, the camera is often a huge limitation. If you shoot low available light stuff, again the camera is a huge limitation. There are a lot of things where the camera isn't a huge limitation, but there are also some where it is.
Richard

I agree with you in part. If you need speed, some of these cameras are lacking. I get very frustrated with mine all the time. With the low light, I have learned to compensate. It pays to keep reading the info on your camera and experimenting with ways to compensate for trouble areas. I have had my camera for a year and a half and I'm still learning things about it. I yearn for a great digital SLR, but for now, I can still learn more about the one I have. Why start over with a new learning curve?

rutt · February 11, 2005

Look, I'm a fine one to talk. I (mostly) have exactly the equipment I want and my distance between wanting and getting is pretty small.

Nevertheless, I go through periods when I feel exactly the same as you do. Try as hard as I can, I just can't take a good picture. I get bored with the scenery, my friends, family, and even my dog go into hiding when I have my camera in hand. The light always sucks. I go to a big event and just don't get the shots. On and on.

Then one day, I break the slump. The light is great. I've given some prethought to the setting. Or I just get lucky. Anyway, everything works. I'll shoot so many keepers that it's sort of a problem in terms of disk space or getting anyone to look at all of them or just narrowing them down to the best few.

I'll bet this happens to all of us to some degree or another. I think the best pros know how to get the shot given the opportunity and since they are pros that's what they do for a living. So in their cases, they are always productive. But it's a matter of improving on ones personal best, no? I'd just die of happiness if I shot even one picture as good as anything in Annie Leibovitz's "Women". But I can see that sometimes she just managed to get a usable shot and it wasn't necessarily her best work.

My all time favorite photographer, Henri Cartier-Bresson, used only two cameras throughout his most creative years, both Leica range finder 35mms. And both cameras always had a 50mm lens. And B&W film, probably the same B&W film all the time. He just learned to make that work in all kinds of situations. He wouldn't have been able to take the same kind of surfing or bird shots that people here have been sharing. But in the same places he would have found a breathtaking shot of some sort or another.

I think of photographic equipment like sports equipment. There is no bicycle (without a motor) that is going to make me into Lance Armstrong. And probably there is no bicycle that would turn him into me (well, within reason. There's always unicycles, for example.) But a new bicycle or pair of skis or pair of running shoes or tennis racket might be fun. And if it was fun, well that would be a good thing in and of itself, wouldn't it. And just maybe a little more fun would manifest itself in results.

So I know I've given you contradictory advice. But really, I think it's only one piece of advice. Figure out how to have fun when you shoot. If you aren't having fun, figure out why not and address it. A big part of photography is problem solving and this is the most imortant problem to solve if you are going to keep at it.

ginger_55 · February 11, 2005

LiquidOps wrote:

ok.... this is kind of starting to get me down lately... Bare with me if this is a rant, but yeah... i've just finished my Triple Grande White Chocolate Mocha, so i've got stuff on my mind....

here it goes...

I'm kind of getting discouraged lately with my photography. It seems I always want to acheive something more, but just can't reach it, weather distance or speed. I've been happy with my Sony F717 with Sony 1.7xtcon for a while, but now, i keep seeing all these awesome pictures taken by the DSLR's and Andy's ever changing, top of the line, stuff, and I want more. I want to be able to capture life the way the rest of you seem to be able to.

I know, I know... it's not the equipment, it's the photographer, but still... there's a certain point where the equipment starts to limit one. If this wasn't true, then there would only be one camera on the market.

POTD, POTW, Challenge Winners..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Envy... yeah... that's part of life... Just really discouraged lately... There is no way I can afford the higher equipment...

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

again... sorry to rant.... just discouraged

Steven

Yeah, Steven, I hear you. I want a kodak, Photo of the day so bad, or I did, I am kind of tired of wanting it. I think it would be anti climatic now.

I have some equipment you don't have. I don't have the equipment that Rutt has. I just got a 20D SLR and two glass lenses. One of them hasn't gotten here yet. I am kind of angry that my husband's mother is dying and he has to go see her with the money I had left to buy anything. That is how obsessive I am. (I am not a bad person, I am not) But I do feed on praise and adulation, even if it is just my own. The joy of seeing a photograph I am happy with........it is a high, probably raises the level of epinephrine or something.

I want everyone jumping to look when I post. Well, that doesn't happen often. In fact, I have belonged longer than you have, I have a rather volatile temper, so for a while I would not post after a "player" posted for fear it would stop the thread. There are still people I want to praise, or make a comment, but I think, no people will respond to him/her, but if I post I could stop the thread. People could say that is not true, but it is. There are some people I am more sensitive about than others. I really like those people and want to see their threads answered.

I don't know what to say. Could you stop this photography thing and be happy? It would diminish my life considerably.

OK, here is something. I used to paint: acrylics. I didn't do it long, it was the late sixties. I can't draw, I can't really paint in a realistic fashion. Most people say one should know the rules, or how to do something, before one can break them. I had a different theory.

Maybe I couldn't paint like anybody else, but no one else was going to paint like me. Nobody else was going to express my feelings for me. I painted because I was the only one who could paint my paintings..........the only one.

And no matter what camera you are using, you are the only person who can take your photographs. If you don't take them, they won't get taken.

I want recognition, too, I really do. I have noticed that some people with really great equipment do not do, in my opinion, that much better than anyone else. That helped me for awhile. It is true, too. IMO, some people are more technical and some people are more artistic. That is just my opinion, it is probably true, but I have no real ability to judge who and what.

Just let me know when you are posting, and I will make it a point to look at your stuff. Honestly, I don't look at everyone's stuff, and some days I have more time than other days, or take more time. "Names" make a difference to me. Much as I hate it, I always look at Andy's stuff. No I like his stuff, I mean I hate to idolize someone so that person gets more of my attention.
But I do think that happens. There is a name factor, and it is not necessarily based on merit. I have a couple of friends here, not "names", none of us, well we aren't chopped live either, or they aren't. The point is we started out being friends just by posting to each other a lot.

Let me know when you post, I will look.

ginger

ginger55 or ginger_55 I forget which name I am under
Just send me a message asking me to look, PM me.
you can do all that by clicking on my name, or putting your cursor over it, it will show you options, choose the PM or personal message. I do the same thing when I want someone to look at something.

There are lots of people, very good photographers here, who are using cameras that are not DSLRs, I am amazed when I find out, their work is very good.

rutt · February 11, 2005

After the long winded response I wrote, I got to thinking and I have a concrete suggestion. Pick a finite doable project and keep at it until you get something you really like. Not portraits or candids or action, getting really good at those is a life's work. How about flowers? Your camera might not be a DSLR, but I bet it has a great macro mode and probably better DOF than you can get from a DSLR without a lot of work. Don't like flowers? What about old treasures like your grandfather's watch? Or maybe it's the view from a certain hilll nearby. The important thing is that it has to be repeatable, so you can reshoot as many times as you need to.

Anyway, take shots, look at them, and try to figure out what was good and what didn't work. Photography is at least in part problem solving. Once you find a kind of picture that you can really shoot well, you'll start to see some hope.

Anyway, that's what got me (re)started about 7 years ago. I shot flowers and sunrises from my roof in Nantucket. Every day. Zillions of them. Until nobody would look at them. But eventually I took some that were actually what I set out to do. Boy that was fun!

JohnR · February 11, 2005

Yeah, I go through the same thing....sometimes I feel like my pictures aren't nearly the same quality I see everywhere else. But photography has really taken ahold of me....I love doing it!

Right now I have a Nikon D70, but my lust is for a D2H, D1X or D2X. Only the D2H is within some reach of my finances...but next year probably.

I have a bunch of pictures on my smugmug account, but I hate to bore people with it.

Though....if anyone wanted to look, be my guest

Critiques always welcomed. http://louisvilleky.smugmug.com

John Mueller · February 11, 2005

I go through the same thing.
One thing I found out is the images I capture and think look like crap,other people rave about. Got a POTD for one that I thought was so so.
I go through thousands of captures a year and learn,read the exif,study it and do it again.
As like any other hobby keep at it and it becomes second nature.
You never know.Keep on shooting.
Best of luck,John

wxwax · February 11, 2005

What Rutt said. It's not your equipment. It's a cycle. I've felt it, I know Lynn has felt it, Rutt says he has. You ask me, it's a natural part of the creative process. I say keep shooting, it will go away. Then come back again. Then go away....

lynnma · February 11, 2005

wxwax wrote:

What Rutt said. It's not your equipment. It's a cycle. I've felt it, I know Lynn has felt it, Rutt says he has. You ask me, it's a natural part of the creative process. I say keep shooting, it will go away. Then come back again. Then go away....

yep.. keep at it.. sometimes I find shots I really like and once I've posted/printed them I still have a depressed kinda feeling.. :uhoh cos I want to do better.. and for a moment I think it's good and then I see it's flawed and I feel horrible. What works for me is inspiration.. looking at beautiful work others have done inspires me to go out and shoot more..I can't say I'm ever really satisfied tho...momentarily maybe then I look again....

Bodwick · February 12, 2005

Mumbles on a Saturday morning......
I remember my first 'real', second hand, camera being purchased with an problem on shutter speed. No matter what the setting the shutter stuck open long enough to blur every single image. I shot a few rolls of film and wasted a lot of money that I could not afford. On collecting the prints from the shop the look I got from the staff was enough to put me off photography for quite a while. Not one of the staff in this camera shop bothered to offer any help at all

........I was young

......

Since that time I've read a lot of books and taken a lot of shots. With film for a while I was happy with one good shot on a roll of 36. I now expect better and can shoot certain subjects very well if I put my mind to it. But I still make mistakes. I try and learn from these mistakes and then if possible re-shoot properly. As an example I've shot loads of animals in the Kruger years ago on slide and some of the results were amazing. The light was right the subjects close etc...
I tried to shoot birds in Senegal and made a complete hash of just about every shot. Too small, way too small, out of focus and just plain bad photography. There were many reasons for this happening that I won't bore you with.
Had I gone there with the sole intention of shooting birds I would have been very disapointed. As it was I learned that a 200mm with a x2 converter is just not enough. While it will work (even without the x2) with semi tame people friendly birds in the Kruger and the UK it will not work from a 12m Piroque in the jungle where you just can't get close enough. But would I buy a 600mm lens for this sort of shooting to be carried out properly? No....Just too expensive.......I would have to got with a 300mm or 400mm with a x1.4 or x2.....

The suggestion to pick a subject and concentrate on that untill you are happy made by rutt is a good way forward. Pick something you enjoy!

Over the years I have slowly bought more and more equipment but unless you win the lottery it's imposible to just go out and buy everything.

Your own style of photography will come out over time.

Just try and learn from your error's so the next time you shoot something similar you have a better idea of how to approach the subject.

Hope my little rant makes sense...
Stick with it and enjoy whatever you do....

Bod....

GREAPER · February 12, 2005

I think the key is passion and fun.

I shoot a lot of crappy pictures. Several hundred a week usually. Some weeks I dont post a single one here on the forum because I dont get a single one I like. The thing is, there are only a couple of things in this world I would rather do that walk about with my camera taking pictures. I go out if the weather sux, I go out if the light sux. I go out if it's too cold, or too hot (I'm ready for some of that) I shoot and shoot and shoot. Sometimes I will be gone for 3 or 4 hours and not take a shot because nothing rings my bell, the key is I am out there looking. I am getting a feel for the places, noticing animal tracks and lighting at different times of day. Noticing when there are other people around and when there are not. Learning what birds eat what, etc etc. Sometimes it's just a matter of crossing a location off my list for future outings.

When the mood strikes you to go out and shoot, dont think about it and think of the things you should do instead... go. Even if just for a short while. Find a couple of places close by where there are potentially interesting subjects and visit them at times when you have a few free moments.

The key to all of it is having fun doing it. If you dont find it all to be fun, put the camera back in the bag and sell it on e-bay because there is not much point. Of course you will get discouraged if you are never happy with what you get, but I have seen shots posted by both the originator of this thread and most of the posters after and I can say they all have posted good stuff here. The more you shoot, the more good shots you will get.

Some people dont think photography is art. They dont know what they are talking about. Think about the way you feel when other people point out flaws in a photo you liked. It kind of hurts your feelings doesn't it. When no one responds to you posts it hurts your feelings or at least dissappoints. You may have been hoping for loads of praise, but will settle for a few pointers on what could have been done better, but being ignored hurts the worst. Why do we feel this way? I think it's because we put our feelings, passions and tastes into our photos, and we hope other people will experience these things when they look at them. Sometimes we even succeed. If that's not art, then I know or care nothing about art.

I enter a lot of contests because I think it's fun. Winning every once in a while is a bonus. It takes a long time to accept the fact that you didn't win is not a rejection of you or the things you put into the photo. You have to see that all of the other photos being judged have the same things put into them by someone else and the judges have to choose one so they choose the one that speaks these thing to them the best. Different judges or even the same judges a different time will result in different winners.

Commissioned work is different as you have a client to please, but the stuff you shoot for you needs to please you. I see people trying to shoot to the tastes of a judge. This is rarely going to help you develope your own style and taste.

Most important of all, it needs to be FUN

Just my thoughts on the subject.

digital faerie · February 15, 2005

GREAPER wrote:

I think the key is passion and fun.

everything GREAPER just said and more!

I'm young, and mostly inexperienced....had 2 photography classes in college 6 years ago and just got my digital two months ago. Talk about a shortened learning curve. I used to empty my wallet on film processing and prints only to find that I didn't have "the shot" after all.

And now I may not get "the shot" but at least I'm getting closer, at least I think so. I get depressed about the photography thing, too sometimes. It's either photography or poetry and these are the only artistic things that I feel I can do somewhat well and it makes me feel good that people tell me I should get my poetry published or that they really like a photograph....even with the critique!

this is the only photo board I've ever found interesting and worth a darn, and I'm thankful to have such a myriad of fellow photographers to get feedback from.

So thanks to all of you for being you!

LiquidOps · February 16, 2005

Thank You
Hey guys,

Thanks for listening to me rant and thanks for the comments you all contributed. I am sure this is a phase that everyone goes through... never welcomed, but a part of this "art"

I have decided to venture into finding my Niche. Over the next couple of months, I will be experimenting into finding just what it is, that makes me happy in photography.

My firstone is already posted for People...

check it out if you would like...

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=6532

Thanks again for being there for me in my time of need,

Steven

Show me hope!!

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