Real estate photography as a business (virtual tours question as well)

SloYerRoll · August 17, 2007

So I just moved to Bend, Oregon due to my wife getting a great job offer to manage Life Touch school portrait studios. She's the professional and I'm just the enthusiast. Beside having the ability to play w/ all her overpriced toys, I'm able to stay home and play w/ my beautiful two year old daughter all day and teach her how to swim etc...

My question is for any photogs that know about real estate photography.
THere is TONS of real Estate out here and by looking a the flyers and such. Hardly no one has a clue on how to photograph real estate. Or any vision on how to market virtual tours on websites.

I'm interested in hearing from any photogs that have expercience w/ any of the following:

360 degree optics for one shot virtual tour images.
Pricing programs (Do you offer pro-rate pricing since you have so much opportunity to work w/ the same ppl over and over again?
Marketing strategies for meeting potential clients (real estate brokers)
Normal business hours?

Any other thoughts or advice is warmly welcomed. This would be a nice revenue generator while being able to travel around w/ all my gear. Thus making it possible to take even more shots of other more interesting things.

Thanks for all your advice and knowledge in advance.

-Jon

Here's a recent picture of my daughter jsut since I'm a proud pappa:

Dusty Sensiba · August 17, 2007

Don't forget construction companies...
Most of my money-making jobs lately have been shooting for a local construction company. Getting pictures of the progress of a project is something they want and can use for marketing purposes. If it can make them money, it can make you money.

Read up on architectural photography and use a tilt-shift lens or correct for wide angle in photoshop.

Also get familiar with InDesign or Quark to make good layouts for the flyers for houses for sale.

Good luck.

-Dusty

SloYerRoll · August 21, 2007

Thanks for the reply Dusty.
I'm really looking for some more detailed info about the logistics of shooting real estate photography.
When the cheapest house in our development is 400k and the go WAY up after that. It doesn't seem to make sense to not have good shots of the building to stand out. Even the B&W conversion on the lower scale flyers bite major donkey.

So my question once again asked is is there anyone in these forums that do this or have knowledge on the the aspect of going to real estate agents and letting them know that you can produce outstanding B&W or color images and even set up 360 degree photos for virtual tours?

How much can you charge? (approximate. I can figure out the demographics for my area)
Do you go to the primary contact or go for the principal real estate decision makers?

This would be a part time gig for me since I don't work anymore. But if the opportunity arose to make consistant money on this endeavor.... My wife makes good money, not great money so, do the math.
I know this is a dry topic. But half million dollar homes in a market where brokers are DESPERATE to sell these properties getting shot w/ a P&S? Hello? How can you not see the opportunity here?

-Jon

ShepsMom · August 21, 2007

I'm interested in this topic as well. The truth of the matter is, they take their P&S as you mentioned, and go at it. They don't really care, or just don't want to spend money, especially if market is slow (here it is anyway) I worked for realtor and all of them carried their little cameras, never ever i've seen anyone hiring photographer to do that. However, you probably will be better off dealing with Builders, not RE agents. Let us know what you find out

SloYerRoll · August 22, 2007

That being mentioned.
Are there any studies out there showing that better photos sell homes (or any other items of value) We as photographers know that it does. I'd like to have some stats to show that to realtors so they can see there is a viable reason for having a pro shoot their properties.

Note: PM me w/ the asking price of your 105 Macro. I'm interested if the price is right!

mercphoto · August 22, 2007

I have a co-worker who also happens to be a Realtor. He approached me with the idea of doing his real estate photography, but once he explained to me what he pays to have someone else do the chore I said no. I'm very surprised what this other vendor is able to charge and (apparantly) still make a profit.

In other words, I'm not convinced this business is a profitable one. I certainly had better things to do.

Do better pictures sell homes faster? I think it depends a lot on the type of real estate. For inexpensive homes it might not matter. For the upper crust of the market it probably does. But there are a lot more homes at the bottom end than at the top end.

SloYerRoll · August 22, 2007

mercphoto wrote:

In other words, I'm not convinced this business is a profitable one. I certainly had better things to do.

It's all about economies of scale. Lets say I charge 100USD per house I shoot. Your right that getting rolling, taking the shots, breaking down is not worth 100 bucks. When there are 10+ houses that are relatively close in proximity to each other and you can knock them all out in 4 hours if you have your act together. Now your starting to recoup on those purchases such as that 12-24 piece of glass you had to have.

mercphoto wrote:

For the upper crust of the market it probably does. But there are a lot more homes at the bottom end than at the top end.

From what I see in my area. All brokers are shooting their own properties. I found ONE photog that serves Central Oregon and his website was complete mom and pop style. It takes a person w/ vision to lead brokers down the golden path of sales. This also means that close to 100% of the upper crust homes being sold still need a pro photog.

It's all about quality not quantity when selling high dollar items. All you need in ONE buyer and the deal is done.

SloYerRoll · August 22, 2007

One way of getting the initial scare out of the broker is not charging up front. You need to be good w/ contracts to do this though.

Sale for photographs is deemed complete when the house sells.

After they warm up to you you can give them a 'discount' (what you were willing to sell your shots for in the forst place) if you are more of a I need the cash person.

I haven't worked out the deatails on how to automate tracking sales of this nature. I'm sure there is a way though. I''m not going to get into that until I know my market better anyway.

Here's a great article from the NY times on "making every pixel count" in real estate photography. There are tons of great quotes to help market a business like this in there.

Here is another blog post that show broker vs. pro photog shots. This can be a real eye opener for real estate brokers since pictures really do sell!

greenpea · August 22, 2007

This is a topic of interest to me too. My wife is a real estate agent. Recently she asked me to photograph a house she is selling. I used a 12-24 lens and flash, did a little post processing, and next thing I know everyone at my wifes office is raving about the quality of the pics. Of couse all they ever do is quick shots with the P&S without any post processing.

This made me think I might be able to make a few $$$ off of my wifes company if I take pictures for some of the other agents (my wife would never be willing to pay me

)

So I did a little web searching on real estate photography and I found this local site which has a few interesting articles on real estate photography: http://www.raincityguide.com/tag/photography/. You might find some of the articles useful.

SloYerRoll · August 22, 2007

Thanks GreenPea,
This site is more geared to the DIY real estate broker.
I'm looking for the stats that tell the broker to go out and get a pro to do all their work and stay in their office and feel important...

greenpea · August 22, 2007

SloYerRoll wrote:

Thanks GreenPea,
This site is more geared to the DIY real estate broker.
I'm looking for the stats that tell the broker to go out and get a pro to do all their work and stay in their office and feel important...

Look for the articles by "Mark Reibman", he's a pro-real estate photographer (his web site http://www.bluelightimaging.com/). His stuff is was what I found the most interesting. I also found his web site interesting; especially pricing, his packages, and gallery.

george-1 · August 22, 2007

A web site to show realtors

SloYerRoll wrote:

My question is for any photogs that know about real estate photography.
THere is TONS of real Estate out here and by looking a the flyers and such. Hardly no one has a clue on how to photograph real estate. Or any vision on how to market virtual tours on websites.

I'm interested in hearing from any photogs that have expercience w/ any of the following:
360 degree optics for one shot virtual tour images.

Pricing programs (Do you offer pro-rate pricing since you have so much opportunity to work w/ the same ppl over and over again?

Marketing strategies for meeting potential clients (real estate brokers)

Normal business hours?

Any other thoughts or advice is warmly welcomed. This would be a nice revenue generator while being able to travel around w/ all my gear. Thus making it possible to take even more shots of other more interesting things.

Thanks for all your advice and knowledge in advance.

-Jon

Jon,
A local Realtor blogged on bad real estate photos, with links to other articles on the subject. They may help you show the need for your service to realtors in your area.

http://crosslandteam.com/blog/2007/07/09/the-hall-of-shame-for-worst-realtor-photos

You also might recruit a real estate agent to take you to a couple of for-sale houses that have bad photos and shoot them, then show the realtors what they could have vs what they have.

HTH

George

bsvirginian · August 23, 2007

I'm currently house hunting and am dealing with a realtor/friend of mine and will try to pursue this subject with him and maybe his friends. I'll see what info I can get a share my experiences with you all. Needless to say in viewing realestate photos locally I find the vast majority suck but maybe we expect too much.
bsvirginian

SloYerRoll · August 23, 2007

george-1 wrote:

<http://crosslandteam.com/blog/2007/07/09/the-hall-of-shame-for-worst-realtor-photos/>

George,
Thanks for that link. That's some top notch photography. I <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/Laughing.gif" border="0" alt="" >'d a bunch of times when hearing the narrators dry voice when talking about the images.

Made my day.

bsvirginian wrote:

I'll see what info I can get

Thanks Bob. Looking forward to hearing from an inside track. Good luck on your house hunting and don't let that person take you for too much money(did I say that out loud?)

bsvirginian · August 24, 2007

Just some observations so far. The real estate market stinks right now worst than most agents can remember. Real estate agents are dropping like flies. That said then I don't believe that individual agents will spend any money at all for better photographs even though it might improve sales. Most of the imagery I've seen on this post have been in the upper price brackets. My own experience photographing a residence I would guess the house was in the 1 million area. My realtor said about what I've said here but although he's a great salesman I don't think he has much insight. I am going to start contacting the larger agencies and see what I can find. My house sold in one day ($ 499,000) but it was a unique property and I probably had it priced too low. My realtor submitted a contract yesterday but I haven't heard yet. I should hear today. For an example of some of the stuff I've done in the past check out this dream job of which was a complete trade. www.stbarth.net
bsvirginian

SloYerRoll wrote:

George,
Thanks for that link. That's some top notch photography. I 'd a bunch of times when hearing the narrators dry voice when talking about the images.

Made my day.

Thanks Bob. Looking forward to hearing from an inside track. Good luck on your house hunting and don't let that person take you for too much money(did I say that out loud?)

SloYerRoll · August 24, 2007

Hey Bob,

While I understand your point. I'm not trying to cater to the realtor that's trying to sell starter homes and doesn't have enough money to even consider paying for a 'pro'.
My target market are the realtors that understand that thier potential clients are affluent, savy, and don't want their time wasted.

You know the type of realtor I'm talking about. You go for a walk in a building project and you see flyers all over the place of B&W prints on copier paper that is curled up form morning dew. THen you see the few realtors that understand how these things sell w/ less 'false bites' on the house. Not so good shots of the home and them but nice paper printed from a local printer. What I propose to them is a complete service just like what they give their potential buyers.

I can take these shots, make them pop w/ a few actions for landscape photography I've learned, optimize for website so their web pages continue to load quickly, have quick turn times, provide all around professional service and results. They can also have peace of mind knowing that the house won't have a red cast to it and look like a nuclear fall out shelter when it comes back from the printer. All w/o pushing my envelope to the least. I could even take a high key shot of them in my wifes studio w/ lighting from all the different angles that the sun would be in when I shoot the house and make a composite of them to drop in on every shot instead of having a head shot that so many agents love. Since ALL real estate agents are so freaking beautiful

(it's all about the details when your selling professional)

I have a pretty extensive print/desktop/pre-press background so my services can extend past where most photgs stop. I actually started out in big print before I found a passion in photography.

To summarize, professional services for a professional broker.

Even if we could come up w/ a generic flyer that presents the services that could be customized by each user here that's interested. I'm working on some design/write ups but everything is in the artboard stage at this point. My art board consists of pro shots optimized vs. the existing flyer that they are using. THe whole dog and pony show is on the flyer. All you need to do is swap out images. Remember that I'm considering going exclusively for high dollar brokers. So there won't be too many of them as far as swapping out shots.

I look forward to hearing what your friend has to say though.
I'm tired of typing.
Al the best.

RustingInPeace · August 24, 2007

Eugene, Oregon Chiming in
It's a service I just started offering here in Eugene this year. I got into this as a marketing tool for my principle occupation (I'm a mortgage broker). It started off as me just doing a favor for a Realtor that refers me a lot business. After the repines she and I both received, I started smelling money. Let's be clear, there is money but it's not nearly as profitable as brokering. I work these projects around my "real" business, and at the same time increase it. It is for me, another chance to get in front of a Realtor to market myself. I don't charge very much, $100 to $150 per house. It's another $1000 or so a month in spending money.

I think there is a definite market for this service but you are going to have to market aggressively. But you need to understand the real estate industry. It is very much a relationship based business. Advertising your service is almost pointless. These people are bombarded with solicitations everyday. Someone is always promising the latest and greatest (for a price). The key is getting face-to-face with the key agents (top producing agents).

Getting the appointment can be an ordeal in itself. Once you get some face time you better have your presentation dialed in. My sales calls are always focused. I promise upfront to only take 15 minutes of their time (and I keep that promise). During an appointment you don't want to "feature dump / blind sell". The idea is to interview the Realtor and reveal his needs then show him / her what you can do to satisfy that need. After the appointment you want to make sure to follow up in a systematic way. I start with a thank you note the same day a our appointment. I follow that up two days later with a letter (the idea is mention at least three things they said were important to them and how you can help. Then after that they get a phone call and a note once a week for 3 weeks. If they are not receptive or say they are not interested, you can still salvage your time by asking what you can do to earn their business. If there is no way for you to satisfy their needs, ask them to refer you to another agent that might have a need for your service.

You have to remember that it's more than just a good picture. You are giving them the opportunity to "market" the fact they have a "professional" photographer take pictures of their listings. This appeals to their potential clients and gives them a way to set themselves apart from their competition.

The biggest thing you have to remember to do is ASK FOR THE BUSINESS!

Most people don't! Keep asking the worst thing they can say is NO. That's not going to kill you.

Also Realtors that you have a relationship with are a great source of other business (seniors, weddings, etc.)

Good Luck!

SloYerRoll · August 24, 2007

RIP,
Great sales tips. You can definately tell you've been in sales for a while. As my first few posts mentioned. I'm fortunate enough to have a wife that works and I stay home and play w/ our 2yo daughter. So there is no need for sustained income. Earning an extra 1-2k a month in a part time status would be great for me to be able to stretch my legs a bit and earn a bit of spending cash. I wouldn't feel so guilty buying toys if I was paying out of my earnings and still contributing to the house.

Thanks for sharing your sales process to us though. A clearly defined process (that would work in any sales atmosphere) is always welcome since post pro photogs are in sales like it or not.

Would you be kind enough to send me some of the literature you give brokers? You have my word I would not violate any copyright. I'm just looking to see what realtors are looking for when they see things. And it seems you really have your fingers on the pulse of this area of discussion. Please PM me if your ok w/ that.

Regardless of your answer, thanks again for the advise.

-Jon

simmo · August 25, 2007

I've just started looking to buy a house over the past few weeks and seen the posibilities in this area to earn a bit of cash on the side too.

My plan at the moment is to build a portfolio from friends/families homes covering your essentials like a Front Exterior shot, Kitchen, Bathroom, Master Bedroom etc.

The real estate search pages here (australia) let you break down your results by agency. I will then target the local agents that don't already have a pro working for them (its pretty easy to tell) and just go door to door.

As someone already said, I will probably offer a trial of 1 or 2 properties for free, mabye even specifically reshooting a property that has really bad shots and has been on the market for a while.

As for a charging model I was thinking something along the lines of a flat call out fee that includes ~3 PP'd photos then a further per photograph/room charge. Say $150 plus $30 per additional shot. I imagine this will only be feasible for the upper end of the market and could be sold to there clients as a value add

simmo · August 25, 2007

Forgot to mention, as a current home buyer I do not use the 360 degree view things. In my opinon your time would be better spent pp quality photos

bsvirginian · August 27, 2007

While discussing the comments on this post with my realtor he told me that the 360 imagery (or video) is what is really hot in this real estate market. I still haven't seen any mention of it on this post. Does anyone know anything about it? Maybe I'll do a search for some info and start a new thread. bsvirginian

Jermbubba · August 27, 2007

bsvirginian wrote:

While discussing the comments on this post with my realtor he told me that the 360 imagery (or video) is what is really hot in this real estate market. I still haven't seen any mention of it on this post. Does anyone know anything about it? Maybe I'll do a search for some info and start a new thread. bsvirginian

I do a fair amount of this in my area. with all priced homes. low to high end. i offer both low quality and high quality tours. what info would you like to know more about?

SloYerRoll · August 27, 2007

I'm really stoked that this thread is still moving I keep smelling good part time money in this. If I go for this and dial some things in, I'll be happy to provide help to anyone that doesn't live mear me

. THis will increase jobs for photographers too since a national standard could begin to be created!

Here are some of the findings/problems I have come across so far:

What is the optimal way to expose for a shot w/ a bright window.
If you expose for the open window letting light in, the rest of the room is underexposed.
I tried using bracketing and HDR merge. WHile sometimes the results are almost TOO good for real estate and ppl's BS flag would go off instantly. HDR technology is not ready for me to rely on at the end of the day to give consistant results.
My best results so far is using some strobes firing into some big ol 43" umbrellas on remotes tucked away out of the field of view.

bsvirginian wrote:

360 imagery (or video) is what is really hot

I'm really interested in this. Expecially some 360 degree optics so I can just snap one shot and call it a day. But that destroys my ability to use strobes to balance the light for a good exposure. So how then? MORE MORE MORE!:D
BTW none of the virtual tours I've studied are video. They are all still life using blending algorythims.

How do you present the whole 360view thing to the brokers that don't currently use it? They don't want their life any more complicated that it already is. There has to be some kind of package deal where I can just give it to the web master of their site as a propriatary file (or provide them w/ a link to the 360 hosting site that they can just imbed as HTML or whatever) that they can just drop in and be done w/ it. It's not easy to sell something if your work makes others that are alrady working for them charge more too.

simmo · August 28, 2007

Most of the 360 degree virtual tour things use flash so yes you could just provide a file that is embeded into a webpage. They are just a number of images stiched together, the more images taken the smoother and less distorted the flash file will be.

The markets are obviously different around the world. In Australia the websites where real estates list properties really dictate what is possible. The two big ones (that I use regularly) are www.domain.com.au and www.realestate.com.au

I don't think these websites give the ability to embed the 360 degree virtual tours so there isn't much of a market here for it. So I guess its worth checking where your potential clients advertise to make sure they support these features before you invest too much time (or money into software) into it.

SloYerRoll · August 28, 2007

simmo wrote:

I don't think these websites give the ability to embed the 360 degree virtual tours so there isn't much of a market here for it. So I guess its worth checking where your potential clients advertise to make sure they support these features before you invest too much time (or money into software) into it.

Since this is a more rural area. I would always asume that they don't have the capabilities enabled. This would obviously involve more research though.
Assuming this, would I go to a flash enabled hosting site? (I've visited a few of these that their main goal is supporting virtual tours)

I'm jsut trying to figure out the big flick before I go digging further.

Thanks simmo.

jonh68 · August 28, 2007

What is the optimal way to expose for a shot w/ a bright window.

I find the program DxO is great at bringout detail in shadows for exposing to bright lights. It's not as good as HDR, but it can salvage underexposed areas. You may have to do a compromise and and expose somewhere in the middle.

Your average viewer probably does not know the difference between a good exposure and a bad one. While it may look good to you, the customer, potential buyer of home, is looking at the room and the more lighting the better. Maybe have one or two artistic shots, but I would go with exposing for the room even if it means blowing out the window unless there's something special about it like great trimwork or view out of it.

Real estate photography as a business (virtual tours question as well)

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