what can I change?

morrisphotography2003 · February 23, 2005

I know that alot of things must be correct in order to get good indoor sports photos. I shot these F5.0 1/200, I know that one way is to have lower aperture. Also I had my ISO at 1600:lynn
I would like for you to be totaly honest with me and rip these two photos apart that way I may pick up some hints and tips that I can use to better myself:wave

GerryDavid · February 23, 2005

The first looks crooked, perhaps you werent exactly in the center of the group. Also they both look on the dark side, perhaps some creative curves will help fix them, or the shadow/highlight tool.

fish · February 23, 2005

morrisphotography2003 wrote:

rip these two photos apart

whoa...be careful, mr. verylongusername...we might actually take you up on that request.

So. First off, drebels are not known for their high ISO performance, and we're seeing that in the second shot. Very noisy. You can try using one of the noise reduction plugins. Waxytaxy likes noise ninja and I prefer NeatImage. That might help a bit.

Both images have a bit of a yellow cast, which is not uncommon with indoor shots. You might want to consider reshooting with a custom WB under the same lighting conditions. If you shot RAW, then you *may* be able to tweak it a bit to correct the colors. A quick test...look at the floor. Is that the same color that you saw when you were there? If not, then you've got a color/WB problem. (a little fish rule of thumb, btw

On the second image, there are a number of composition problems as well as focus, sharpness, and noise. I won't touch that one anymore.

The first shot is a nice team photo, and the girls all look like they're having a great time. That's really hard to get in a team photo session. Congrats...you must have a good personable technique to get them smiling. What bothers me most about this shot is the background. Four people that don't add anything to the shot and unfortunately, they're in focus enough that I can see their bored expressions. There's a lot of other "physical noise" in the background. Might try reshooting against a simpler background. Outside with natural light would be the best. If that's not possible, then you might want to consider a three strobe setup.

How'd I do?

morrisphotography2003 · February 23, 2005

That is why I like the :fish you put it like it is and if asked you dont hold back any punches

. The floor is acually that color but I do agree, the boring people should have been out of the photo. Is there any other things that I can try to get the better indoor shots, lenses or d20 or better?

thanks - Bob

Steve Cavigliano · February 24, 2005

morrisphotography2003 wrote:

That is why I like the :fish you put it like it is and if asked you dont hold back any punches. The floor is acually that color but I do agree, the boring people should have been out of the photo. Is there any other things that I can try to get the better indoor shots, lenses or d20 or better?

thanks - Bob

Bob,
If you won't be using a flash/strobe, you'll probably benefit from a faster lens. I'm amazed you got results as good as you did using F5 and 1/200. Doubling the speed would help the crispness of your shots. The only reason your "action" shot came out well, IMO, is that she's really not moving much. When I used to shoot B-ball with a Prosumer, the best speed I could get (using ISO800) was about 1/125. If I caught the players at the top of their jump, I'd get a fairly blur-free image. If they were moving, I got lots of blur.

I'm pretty happy with the results I get with my current setup. The 20D (could be a 10D, or even a Rebel or 350D), and the 85mm F1.8 lens. The speed of this lens allows me to get 1/400-1/500 shutter speeds, using ISO800/ISO1600 and apertures from F1.8-F2.2. The reason for the range of settings is the different lighting I encounter at different gyms. Custom WB also helps get close on the color temp and AI Servo helps for those bursts of action shots. Shooting in RAW gives you a couple of advantages. It's easy to set WB after the fact and you can under expose a bit and still recover all the shadow detail.

At the "Home" gym, I can shoot F2.2, 1/500, ISO1600. As an example, in the "Away" gym I shot at on Saturday, I had to use F1.8, 1/400 and ISO1600 and I was still under exposing by a stop in some cases :-(

Anyhow, shutter speed and a good exposure are the keys, IMO. Speed to freeze the action and good exposure to keep the noise at a manageable level.

This is probably wayyyyyy more than you were looking for.....lol

Anyhow, good luck and keep posting your shots

Steve

morrisphotography2003 · February 24, 2005

Thank you for giving me some ideas of different things that I can try.

:fish do you have any good suggestions on where to pick up a good strobe and what should I keep in mind when looking for one.
thanks - mr. verylongusername

wxwax · February 24, 2005

First one's not level and off center. Plus, they're not looking at your camera, are they?

Were they looking at another camera? Were you poaching?

Fish made tons of good points. You really need a flash for the first shot, and a powerful one off-set from the camera. And you need to white balance properly. At a minimum, shoot in RAW so you can fix the exposure a wee bit, and also the white balance.

Finally, there's too much headroom - I'd crop off some of the top.

The second shot's soft. Probably because of the low light and slow autofocus? Using Noise Ninja or whatever will only worsen the situation, so I don't think there's a fix for the noise, softness or the other player's elbow, I'm afraid.

Mongrel · February 24, 2005

hmmm...
do you mean a flash unit or a *strobe*? They are two different things.

By *strobe* I believe Steve was talking about a strobe setup for the gym you will be shooting in. A setup like that even if done 'cheaply' will run you quite a few bucks (at LEAST $500 used-and even that is optimistic-lol).

And, honestly, if I were you I would concentrate on a good lens before considering even a flash unit. Right off the bat a few lenses that come to mind around the $300-$400 range-50mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2.0, would all be a lot more beneficial to you than a flash unit if you want to shoot indoor action.

But before we even get into that, let's start at the beginning...

As has been pointed out, your shots suffer from a few faults that can be corrected by utilizing different equipment and thinking ahead a little bit. It looks like you were shooting along side at least one other photog for the team pic, so if it's any consolation his\her shot has the same background as yours

.

Now what I suggest you do is to ask yourself how badly you want to shoot *good* indoor sports shots. If you answer that question like this-

Then I'd suggest you pick up a 420EX (around $180 new, see the "Where to buy thread" on the main page here) and practice with the lens and camera you have now until you get some shots you like.

Now, if you ask yourself "how badly do I want to shoot *good* indoor sports shots?" and you answer like THIS:

THEN....

Sit down and decide how much you want to invest in equipment RIGHT NOW. Next, decide how much you want to invest in equipment, oh, say...six months from now. Figure how much total you'd be willing or able to invest in gear for the next twelve months.

When you have some reasonably 'hard' figures to work with, you are ready to begin.

Answer these next:

1. What is my first priority-body or lens? You can shoot indoor sports with a D-Reb, BUT it takes more work and quite a bit of luck to do it consistantly with a decent number of keepers. If at this time you are thinking of upgrading your body, then save your money for a minimum of a 20D or a used 1D. It will be well worth it in the long run, and not just for shooting sports.

HOWEVER...

If you don't see a body in your future, or just cannot spend or invest in one at this time-all is not lost. A good lens becomes your priority. FAST aperture, 50mm to 135mm range is a good place to start. No reason to spend over say $400 unless you want to. Many recommend the 70-200 f/2.8 zooms, but honestly, in most of the gyms I have shot in, f/2.8 is just TOO SLOW! Even at ISO 1600 on a 20D body. The 85mm f/1.8 is probably the most recommend B-ball prime I've seen.

With just ONE good lens on your D-Reb (I think that's what someone above said you had correct?), you should be able to get you shutter speed up around at least 1/400 at f/1.8-/2.0 and ISO1600. That's as good a place as any to start.

If you want to add a flash, either the Canon 420EX or the Sigma 500 DG Super work well on the D Rebel (I have both).

Keep us posted on your progress...

Steve Cavigliano · February 25, 2005

Bob,

Mongrel's advice is right on

A relatively inexpensive flash (like the 420EX, or the Sigma Super) would really help. The only question is, will the coaches/league/refs let you use one. If so, it will make this type of shooting much easier. As in, you might even be able to get by with your current equipment and get very satisfactory results

Mongrel was also correct about the strobes. This is a more expensive way to go, but takes care of the "direct flash" look that a camera mounted flash may give.

If you have to shoot with no external lighting, the previous suggestions about a faster lens and possibly even another body, should be considered.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do,
Steve

morrisphotography2003 · February 26, 2005

hello everyone your suggestions have been great I am working on some of your ideas corrently.- Bob

what can I change?

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