took with new lens 70-200?

magicpic · November 11, 2007

ok this is my first time with the lens 70-200 2.8 IS canon lens...photos not that great shot on manuel..2.8 Iso 1600 to 800 ans shutter 125-60...Please comment..janis

magicpic · November 13, 2007

magicpic wrote:

ok this is my first time with the lens 70-200 2.8 IS canon lens...photos not that great shot on manuel..2.8 Iso 1600 to 800 ans shutter 125-60...Please comment..janis

Can any one Please comment on these photos so I will know what to do better..thanks janis

beetle8 · November 13, 2007

They look good
The last one is my favorite. Nice and tight. When I shoot fast sports inside I go with aperature priority with a center weighted meter. just to make things a little quicker. Try to get in as close as possible, with the 200mm in a court type atmosphere your best shots will usually come from the action on your side of the court/field.
The only other thing would be one of my hardest hurdles, in the last picture you'll notice you have the face toward the center of the frame. If the face were more toward the top of the frame it would be an overall better shot. I continually battle with this myself,

wmstumme · November 13, 2007

I agree with Keith. The last one is the best because it is clear what the subject is. The others just have don't seem to have one particular focal aspect--the eye doesn't seem to know what part of the picture to focus on. I think in this setting, I would focus on individuals, faces and expressions rather than trying to catch the overall scene. Your last one does this.

I also think that having a 200mm zoom in an indoor gym should be plenty to get you close. Also, zooming in will help to blur out the background--helping to further accentuate the subject (like happened in the last shot).

Hope this helps.

magicpic · November 13, 2007

wmstumme wrote:

I agree with Keith. The last one is the best because it is clear what the subject is. The others just have don't seem to have one particular focal aspect--the eye doesn't seem to know what part of the picture to focus on. I think in this setting, I would focus on individuals, faces and expressions rather than trying to catch the overall scene. Your last one does this.

I also think that having a 200mm zoom in an indoor gym should be plenty to get you close. Also, zooming in will help to blur out the background--helping to further accentuate the subject (like happened in the last shot).

Hope this helps.

thanks for the comments...boy, shooting sports is hard work and I see that to be a good sports photographer it take practice...thanks again for your comments...janis

theonlineview · November 15, 2007

Is Image Stab. needed for sports??

beetle8 wrote:

The last one is my favorite. Nice and tight. When I shoot fast sports inside I go with aperature priority with a center weighted meter. just to make things a little quicker. Try to get in as close as possible, with the 200mm in a court type atmosphere your best shots will usually come from the action on your side of the court/field.
The only other thing would be one of my hardest hurdles, in the last picture you'll notice you have the face toward the center of the frame. If the face were more toward the top of the frame it would be an overall better shot. I continually battle with this myself,

Does Is help or hender in action sports?
thanks

beetle8 · November 15, 2007

IS in sports
I have IS in the body (Sony A700) if i'm not on a tripod then it's on by default, but it does not help with sport photography. Reason being, you want your shutter speed as fast as possible to freeze action. The fast shutter will eliminate camera shake, IS will not freeze action.

magicpic · November 15, 2007

beetle8 wrote:

I have IS in the body (Sony A700) if i'm not on a tripod then it's on by default, but it does not help with sport photography. Reason being, you want your shutter speed as fast as possible to freeze action. The fast shutter will eliminate camera shake, IS will not freeze action.

what should the shutter speed be?

HarveyMushman · November 15, 2007

magicpic wrote:

what should the shutter speed be?

As fast as possible.

beetle8 · November 15, 2007

Faster
I set everything with shutter speed in mind. The Ideal # would be 1/500sec or more at that speed with humans you'll stop all but the fastest. Chances are you won't get that indoors. Indoors I go aperature priority wide open I try to stay at or below 1600 iso center weighted meter And hope for 1/250/sec. at that speed there is still motion blur, which relates to the Image Stabilization question IS will not help with that.

theonlineview · November 15, 2007

shutter speed

HarveyMushman wrote:

As fast as possible.

Is setting it aperture mode and letting it select the shutter speed ok?
I just ordered today the 70-200 with IS. I have been using just a 4-5.6 70-300 no USM or IS. Images with 1600 ISO were just too dark.
thanks gene

theonlineview · November 15, 2007

shutter speed

HarveyMushman wrote:

As fast as possible.

Is setting it aperture mode and letting it select the shutter speed ok?
I just ordered today the 70-200 with IS. I have been using just a 4-5.6 70-300 no USM or IS. Images with 1600 ISO were just too dark.
thanks gene

beetle8 · November 16, 2007

Yup,
That's the way to do it, you make the aperature setting and the camera adjust the shutter apropriately. This way you can concentrate on getting the shot

HarveyMushman · November 16, 2007

theonlineview wrote:

Is setting it aperture mode and letting it select the shutter speed ok?
I just ordered today the 70-200 with IS. I have been using just a 4-5.6 70-300 no USM or IS. Images with 1600 ISO were just too dark.
thanks gene

Aperture priority mode is fine, as long as you understand how aperture, shutter speed, and ISO combine to affect exposure.

USM and IS have no affect on exposure.

What do you mean, "Images with 1600 ISO were just too dark"? What were the lighting conditions when you were shooting? What were you shooting? What were your other camera settings?

johng · November 16, 2007

theonlineview wrote:

Is setting it aperture mode and letting it select the shutter speed ok?
I just ordered today the 70-200 with IS. I have been using just a 4-5.6 70-300 no USM or IS. Images with 1600 ISO were just too dark.
thanks gene

Using aperture priority CAN work well - but it has problems as well. The challeng is: how is you're camera metering? Take the sport in question. Let's assume you get nice tight framing on a person. And let's assume you're using something OTHER than spot metering. If that person is wearing a white shirt you may get an exposure up to 1 stop below what you want to properly expose for the face. So, in AV mode youu COULD dial in exposure compensation for +2/3 or +1. But now if you take a photo of a person wearing a DARK shirt you end up with a face that is OVEREXPOSED. Why? because unless your camera is in spot meter it's going to meter off what is in the frame - and what is typically in the center of the frame is the torso.

So, for indoor sports - AV really isn't the best mode to go with. for indoor sports where you have constant lighting - MANUAL exposure works the best. Here's how to do it:
1. Set ISO to 1600
2. Set camera to AV mode (I know, just bear with me).
3. Set aperture value to widest setting (lowest f stop).
4. take some close-up shots of a player's face.
5. Review LCD image and histogram
6 Adjust exposure compensation and repeat steps 4-6 until the face looks properly exposed.
7. Look at what shutter speed the camera used.
8. Set camera to manual exposure and dial in ISO 1600, your widest aperture and the shutter speed.
9. If you have a bright gym and a very fast prime (1.8 say) you might be able to adjust ISO down or aperture down if you're getting shutter speeds above 1/400. 1/400 is usually the lowest shutter speed I try and use.

Gym lighting is usually dim but mostly CONSISTENT. So a typical gym will only have about 1/3 stop difference from one end to the other for basketball. That's why manual works better - because you know the lighting is consistent.
The key to having GOOD images though - is getting faces properly exposed in-camera. NOT the uniforms. People care about the faces and don't pay attention to a bright white jersey.

beetle8 · November 16, 2007

Give it a try
Well there's a good point, however I't obviously going to depend on everything. I can see having closer to a full stop of difference.

wmstumme · November 17, 2007

johng wrote:

... People care about the faces and don't pay attention to a bright white jersey.

John, What a good answer! Made me really think through what I'll be doing as I head back indoors for winter.

Thanks

magicpic · November 17, 2007

wmstumme wrote:

John, What a good answer! Made me really think through what I'll be doing as I head back indoors for winter.

Thanks

what metering mode did you have it on spot? janis..I had a gray card but I think that the meter mode was on evalutive when I took it

stromhammer · November 17, 2007

Content
I agree with all the technical info given here so far. You should also consider your content. I also like the last picture the best. You managed to capture the emotion and intensity of a single player. When I shoot sports I try to keep my main subject slightly off center. Try using the rule of thirds. Raise the players face and slightly to one side. Leave some room to the side of the frame where he is looking. And cropping can turn a so so picture into a good picture.

johng · November 17, 2007

stromhammer wrote:

And cropping can turn a so so picture into a good picture.

Absolutely! In fact, post processing is hugely important for good sports photos - the right USM, noise reduction, dodging/burning and as pointed out - cropping make a difference on EVERY sports shot.

beetle8 · November 17, 2007

Easy does it

johng wrote:

Absolutely! In fact, post processing is hugely important for good sports photos - the right USM, noise reduction, dodging/burning and as pointed out - cropping make a difference on EVERY sports shot.

Not so Fast, If your trying to get the perfect or even a few perfect shots for yourself, a publication or private hire job than PP till your sore,
But if your taking photo's of an event where you hope to market and sell to a large number of customers attending,participating, or just interested in the event. There is absolutely no way you can corectly PP every shot and have them in front of the potential customers in a timely fashion. Those shots have to come out of the camera and get uploaded. And no offense, the best cropping is propper composition & Framing.

johng · November 17, 2007

beetle8 wrote:

There is absolutely no way you can corectly PP every shot and have them in front of the potential customers in a timely fashion. Those shots have to come out of the camera and get uploaded. And no offense, the best cropping is propper composition & Framing.

Sure you can. I do it every shoot. And while I agree in theory proper framing is ideal - it's not anywhere near practical for sports photography.Let's take low light sports shooting with anything below a 1-series camera. You're relegated to using center focus point because it's the only one that will work well enough. You just can't frame properly when using center focus point (i.e. your subject is always in the center of the frame).EVERY shot can be improved with PP. There's a difference between providing a QUICK product to your customers and providing a QUALITY product to them.

stromhammer · November 18, 2007

I agree with john. When shooting fast and continuous sports action it's nearly impossible to properly compose every shot. Most of the time I only use the center focus point and crop out the clutter. And even when using a long lens for soccer, LAX, or even basketball cropping is sometimes still essential. I shoot a lot of HS soccer and the pictures that sell the best are the shots of an isolated face full of emotion. I sometimes offer two versions of the same picture. One original with no cropping and minor PP and one cropped with a little more PP. My costomers seem to appriciate the extra effort.

Having said all that, it's also important to find a good shooting location where the light and background is suitable for good shots.

johng · November 18, 2007

Stromhammer,

Great points. I agree completely. You always want to do as much as you can to get the shots as perfect as possible out-of-camera: good angles, minimize clutter, shoot as tight as possible, shoot with sun in good position, get wb correct in camera, get exposure correct in camera. But all my sports shots get:
1. USM
2. Cropping
3. Noise reduction (if required)
4. Dodging of face (if needed - it's faces that sell and sometimes there are shadows that need lightening).

By getting everything as good as possible in-camera the cropping and USM are all that's needed on many outdoor shots. Noise reduction can be applied in batch mode and dodging takes about 5 seconds. All in all it takes about 30 seconds to a minute for me to review a photo for quality and make the above adjustments. Occasionally there are some shots I really want to save that require some additional work but spending 30 seconds to a minute is a very small price to pay for the added quality that USM and cropping alone add.

wmstumme · November 18, 2007

okay...I'll be the moron. USM?

beetle8 · November 18, 2007

Remember good morning Vietnam?
InGood Morning Vietnam Robbin Williams went on a tirade of initial " if the VP is such a VIP shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT or Else it'll leak to the VC and we'll all end up on KP"

wmstumme wrote:

okay...I'll be the moron. USM?

USM is UnSharpMask

beetle8 · November 18, 2007

O.K. John
johng
Well I'll have to start by thanking you, Thank You.
I shot an indoor Gymnastics meet today, I started out in ApPriority then switched over to manual. Other than rolling my shutter dial a click here or there I did little else, and ended up with some of my best results to date. Your tip from a few posts ago the other day about setting up manual along with a few other things like a different aproach to white ballance made the day. Thank you again.
That being said, I had 12 hours of shooting countless gymnast totalling ?# of shots that I've blown through and eliminated only the worst of the worst ( because I've learned What I think SU*KS some people love) and am currently begginning the upload process right now. I'd say when I'm done I'll have 14 galleries (one for each attending Gym) with @ 4000 shots online by the end of the day monday. there would be no way to do that even with the smallest amount of individual PP and batching. NR batching alone takes almost as long as uploading.
And to answer your next question, They have to be up by the end of the day tomorrow or the sales will halve for everyday they are not up. These meets happen every week and if it's not me shooting there will surely be someone else there with a fresh batch of shots. every meet I've ever done 95% of sales are done and over in the first 5 days. I have scored a huge gig this year that was someone elses last year because it took them 2 1/2 weeks to get the shots up.
Again John Thank You for the super helpful tip,

johng · November 19, 2007

Keith,

Glad my post was helpful to you.

Ric Grupe · November 19, 2007

because I've learned What I think SU*KS some people love

It's amazing sometimes...isn't it?!

Interesting read on different points of view in this thread. No right or wrong...just different approaches for varied reasons.

took with new lens 70-200?

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