40D Folder/Image Puzzle

kdog · December 6, 2007

I'm stumped. On my 20D with Continuous file numbering, for every 100 shots, a new folder is created. On my 40D with Continuous image numbering, it puts ALL images into the same folder, regardless of quantity. However, I really don't want hundreds or even thousands of shots in the same folder. I liked the way the 20D did it.

Auto file numbering is even worse. When a new card is installed and formatted, it restarts the numbering at folder 100, image 000. That means I stand a high probability of overwriting files on my hard drive.

You can force a folder to be created using manual reset. However, I don't want to do that all the time either to create folders. Like I say, I liked the 20D behavior of 100 images to a folder.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks,
-joel

ziggy53 · December 6, 2007

I think file numbering conventions changed with the Canon 30D.

You do have 3 options on the Canon 40D:

(1) Continuous numbering
(2) Auto reset
(3) Manual reset

In order to change between these three options, in the Setup Section (yellow "wrench" menu), find the "File Numbering" (under the first yellow menu it is the second entry) and choose between the three selections.

I'm guessing that in your case you will be happiest with the "Continuous" selection.

I realize this is still an objection for you, but those are the choices and Continuous is still the best for what you describe.

For me, I use the Auto Reset so that each fresh card has files starting from "000" and when I copy to the hard drive I use a new, separate folder for each card.

The files are renamed as part of the delivery process and sorted prior to that, so I don't have a problem on the delivery disc(s).

kdog · December 6, 2007

Thanks Ziggy, but I guess my question wasn't clear, despite my best efforts.

I wanted the camera to create a new folder every 100 images like my 20D did. Evidently it doesn't do that any more. No biggy, I'll learn to deal with it.

Thanks,
-joel

blalor · December 6, 2007

I'd heard about this change when the 40D was launched. It's documented in the manual (:giggle).

The file number is like the frame number on a roll of film. The captured images are assigned a sequential file number from 0001 to 9999 and saved in one folder. You can also change how the file number is assigned.

(p. 72)

Kinda weird, I agree, but, short of some filesystem-specific limit on the number of files in a folder, I never really saw the point of separate folders.

kdog · December 6, 2007

blalor wrote:

I'd heard about this change when the 40D was launched. It's documented in the manual (:giggle).

(p. 72)

Kinda weird, I agree, but, short of some filesystem-specific limit on the number of files in a folder, I never really saw the point of separate folders.

Yeah, thanks. I did notice that in the manual, but guess my mind was in that river in Egypt (Denial).

I'd gotten used to just copying the sequentially numbered folders off the memory card and onto my hard drive. From there, I'd sort those folders into months of the year. 100 files per folder is a nice manageable amount.

Having 10,000 files per folder is nuts, and will cause applications to go crazy trying to thumbnail that many files. So now I have to manually create additional folders every day to sort my pictures. I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a step forward to me.

The auto reset features would be great IF it bumped the folder name, which it doesn't. In fact, it resets it to folder 100 each time, which is exactly what I don't want. Oh well...

I guess I'd be curious to hear how other folks are sorting their files.

Cheers,
-joel

ChrisJ · December 6, 2007

One of the reasons I want a 30D/40D is so I can get rid of the multiple folders!

But since shutters last around 100K shots (for 20/30/40D), I wish their numbering system would do the same...

blalor · December 6, 2007

kdog wrote:

I guess I'd be curious to hear how other folks are sorting their files.

I use a Mac. I download all the images off the card with Image Capture into a single "Camera Download" folder. IC then kicks off an Automator workflow that does the following:
* creates a new folder named with the timestamp of the first file in the sequence and the range of image numbers. For example, "20071122T195502 4200-4242"
* all images are moved into that folder
* an MD5 checksum of each image is calculated for later archival verification
* images are then imported into Aperture as managed files
* copyright IPTC tags are applied
* growl notification thrown on screen

A home-grown Python script does the heavy lifting for the first three steps. When my Camera Download folder reaches DVD size, I burn it to disc, copy it to an external hard drive, and trash the contents. So I should always have at least two copies of the image.

That's sort of off-topic (although you kind of asked...), but the point for me is that I'm never aware of the folder structure. I would prefer that Canon did something more intuitive for a filename than IMG_9999.jpg, however. Why not embed the timestamp into the filename?

bham · December 6, 2007

kdog, I am with you on that. I like the 100 pics per folder. Makes it easy to manage, burn to cd, etc.

So you could always subdivide the folder. Create 100_0 for 0001-0099, 100_1 for 0100 - 0199, 100_2 for 0200-0299, etc.

Zanotti · December 6, 2007

And be careful, when you get to 9999, the whole system locks up and you get an error message. The only way to clear it is to put in a different card and reformat. If you lock up on the current card - even if its not full - and dont have another card - you are done for the day.

Make a mental note to reset at 8500 to prevent this issue. Believe me when it happens you'lll never figure out why or how to change it. DAMHIK....

kdog · December 6, 2007

blalor wrote:

I use a Mac. I download all the images off the card with Image Capture into a single "Camera Download" folder. IC then kicks off an Automator workflow that does the following:
* creates a new folder named with the timestamp of the first file in the sequence and the range of image numbers. For example, "20071122T195502 4200-4242"
* all images are moved into that folder
* an MD5 checksum of each image is calculated for later archival verification
* images are then imported into Aperture as managed files
* copyright IPTC tags are applied
* growl notification thrown on screen

A home-grown Python script does the heavy lifting for the first three steps. When my Camera Download folder reaches DVD size, I burn it to disc, copy it to an external hard drive, and trash the contents. So I should always have at least two copies of the image.

That's sort of off-topic (although you kind of asked...), but the point for me is that I'm never aware of the folder structure. I would prefer that Canon did something more intuitive for a filename than IMG_9999.jpg, however. Why not embed the timestamp into the filename?

That's awesome. I don't use a Mac, and don't *think* there's a way to script any of my tools, however I'll have to keep my eyes open. Thanks for the info.

-joel

kdog · December 6, 2007

bham wrote:

kdog, I am with you on that. I like the 100 pics per folder. Makes it easy to manage, burn to cd, etc.

So you could always subdivide the folder. Create 100_0 for 0001-0099, 100_1 for 0100 - 0199, 100_2 for 0200-0299, etc.

Glad somebody agrees with me.

That's exactly what Blalor above does, but includes the date in the folder name, and has it all automated. Dude's got his act together.

Cheers,
-joel

kdog · December 6, 2007

Zanotti wrote:

And be careful, when you get to 9999, the whole system locks up and you get an error message. The only way to clear it is to put in a different card and reformat. If you lock up on the current card - even if its not full - and dont have another card - you are done for the day.

Make a mental note to reset at 8500 to prevent this issue. Believe me when it happens you'lll never figure out why or how to change it. DAMHIK....

Bummer. You have the 30D still? I have a 40D with the latest firmware, V1.0.5. I'd be very surprised if they still had that problem.

Cheers,
-joel

blalor · December 6, 2007

kdog wrote:

That's exactly what Blalor above does, but includes the date in the folder name, and has it all automated. Dude's got his act together.

/me blushes

I'm more than happy to share my Python script. It's mostly OS agnostic, I think. The folder naming scheme has changed a bit over time, but it makes it fairly easy to find your masters chronologically, and also make sure you're not missing a batch of images (by the image number at then end of the folder name).

kdog · December 6, 2007

Well, cool. Not sure how applicable it would be to me as is, but it might make a good foundation. I'd need it to run standalone, probably change around the file conventions and stuff. You've really got me thinking.

Maybe I should make a standalone program that'll analyze the files on the CF card, create the directories using a heuristic like yours, and copy the files to them. Or maybe your script already works like this. Send it to jmg @ jacara.com (no spaces), and I'll take a look.

Thanks and Cheers!
-joel
PS: I used to live in Tyngsboro and work at DEC in Nashua.

blalor · December 6, 2007

kdog wrote:

Send it to ...

Incoming!

kdog wrote:

PS: I used to live in Tyngsboro and work at DEC in Nashua.

I lived in "The Valley" (Phoenix) for a couple of years. It's 16º outside right now; I think I might be missing the desert just a little at the moment...

BigAl · December 6, 2007

Sorry Joel, I'm one of those who hated the 100/folder style of the older Canon digital cameras - I could never figure out why Canon implemented this scheme. I *always* move my pics manually, so having to wade through folders named 100, 101, 102 was extremely irritating. I suppose it depends on workflow and how we're used to working...

kdog · December 6, 2007

BigAl wrote:

I suppose it depends on workflow and how we're used to working...

jdryan3 · December 6, 2007

I had the original 300D, then the 5D. Same sort of transition. I was shocked at first, but quickly got used to the single folder. I dump them all into one folder (Unprocessed) and then go and rank, delete and sort.

It always drove me crazy that one folder would have snapshot stuff from a birthday party and the 4th of July, but the rest of the 4th was in another folder. The folders were arbitrary related to the subject matter.

I feel it actually helped me improve my work flow, especially in Bridge. From what I understand about Lightroom, folder structure is irrelevent anyway. Now if I can just spend the time to learn it!

kdog · December 7, 2007

jdryan3 wrote:

I feel it actually helped me improve my work flow, especially in Bridge. From what I understand about Lightroom, folder structure is irrelevent anyway.

I see your point. Although, I really have to wonder how these programs would handle 10,000 images in a single folder. Aren't they going to try to thumbnail them all?

-joel

bham · December 7, 2007

For me the 100, 101, 102 folders are just a organized place to store originals.

Once I work on them and edit, etc I create a new folder for each thing/subject/trip whatever.

jswoolf01 · December 10, 2007

I haven't seen anybody address this bit yet:

kdog wrote:

Auto file numbering is even worse. When a new card is installed and formatted, it restarts the numbering at folder 100, image 000. That means I stand a high probability of overwriting files on my hard drive.

To date this is the only and only case of me liking a Microsloth Windoze applet better than I like a manufacturer's custom-written software: I always use the Windows Camera and Scanner Wizard to download pictures from my cameras. It allows me to create a new folder anywhere I like on my entire system, give that folder a unique name, and create a file skeleton for the downloaded pictures. For example, suppose I took a walk along the coast today and shot eighty-three pictures. I attach the camera to my PC, start the wizard, go to I:\Archives2007\Q4, create a folder called Coastwalk_1210, then enter "Coastwalk_1210" (or whatever) for the file skeleton. It downloads all 83 pictures, names them "Coastwalk_1210 001" through "Coastwalk_1210 083", then wipes them from the camera card. The wizard is even smart enough to recognize already-existing files in the folder, so if I do two walks, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, with a download after each walk, the wizard will sequence the second batch after the first batch, rather than trying to restart at 1.

If I have multiple cards to download, I assign letters that identify which card the photos were on: card 1 is the file skeleton plus an 'a,' card 2 is the skeleton plus a 'b', and so on.

Using this method, I've never yet overwritten a file or lost one. My photos are always organized in the way that makes the most sense to me: by date. Archiving is easy, just select a year or quarter and burn it to a DVD. I've never mixed files from different shooting sessions (unless I wanted to). I've even been able to split the contents of one card into two or more folders, because the wizard allows you to select what pictures to download, and after you finish it's an easy matter to run it a second time.

And as a side effect, after I run the wizard, the camera's frame counter always seems to automatically reset to 1. This has worked with at least four different cameras.

-- Jon W.

40D Folder/Image Puzzle

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