Any Cross Border Shipping Advice?

xris · November 12, 2007

I'm about to do my first deal here and I'm wondering if anyone would care to offer comments or advice regarding cross border shipping - US/Canada? Who's best, USPS, UPS, FedEx? Are there any taxes, duties or special charges involved? Good/bad experiences?

I'd love to hear from any other Canucks who have done the deed and lived to tell about it!! :barb

Ann McRae · November 12, 2007

Hi there

I've bought quite a bit of used equipment from dgrin, and had it shipped via all the usual suspects(sellers choice). They all work fine.
They will all add brokerage fees and gst - no way around it, typically about 10% of insured value (6% gst, 4% brokerage). You can prepay it on some shipping services. I have not recieved things faster from the courier services than from USPS, and to date have not had any bad experiences. USPS ground has been as reliable and fast as any.

New goods (photo gifts for example) have arrived with the brokerage fees taken care of, as one would expect.

Good Luck - it is a great time for us canucks to cross border shop, especially since the local retailers are not responding to the currency change.

ann

xris wrote:

I'm about to do my first deal here and I'm wondering if anyone would care to offer comments or advice regarding cross border shipping - US/Canada? Who's best, USPS, UPS, FedEx? Are there any taxes, duties or special charges involved? Good/bad experiences?

I'd love to hear from any other Canucks who have done the deed and lived to tell about it!!

xris · November 12, 2007

Ann McRae wrote:

I've bought quite a bit of used equipment from dgrin,...

Thanks Ann. All good info. And nice to know.

Ann McRae · November 12, 2007

xris wrote:

Thanks Ann. All good info. And nice to know.

It's a bit of a bad habit, actually......

(70 - 200 mm f2.8L, 135f2.0, 50mmf1.4, 580EX, 1dMkIIN, 24 - 105 L)

Must show restraint now - no way will I bite at the next 1.4X TC , nope, no way!!!!!

Dizzle · November 12, 2007

What if it's an uninsured item under $50 in value? What fees will need to be taken care of?

ph4rm3r_3d · November 19, 2007

Hey, I ordered up a whole bunch of goodies in October from BHphoto via USPS and it was all good - except for the wait.

There's a HUGE backlog at customs. Like, massive. Expect a couple weeks wait now, I gather its even worse than it was this fall. Also, double check the duty you'll get charged by CBSA. MOST photographic equipment is duty free, but you'll always get hit with GST. Sadness.

If you get charged extra (likely, they'll just label it Misc Photo Equip, which is 5% duty), just fill the appeal copy of the import form and find out what the proper catagory is. Here's the main site - http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca. You'll have to dig for the pdf's (and dig deep, it took me quite a while - sorry, no direct link).

photoprice.ca also has a good article on this... http://www.photoprice.ca/article/00001

Their price comparison page also demonstrates how badly us Canadians are/were getting hosed (but that is changing now!).

Word of warning - stay away from UPS. I hate them, more than the GST. Its always been a bad experience wit them. FedEx is somewhat better, but if you can afford the wait, mail is probably the best. Also, Can Post will only hit you $8 for customs fees whereas the couriers is anywhere from $16-40 (or more).

eBay stuff across the border is pretty much the same story, but there are no good deals there on lenses - that's why I lurk here a lot!

Any other questions - just email me. I've still not got my appeal back from CBSA, but I'm not expecting it for a while. I met a guy who used to work there and, well, they were busy last year and with the exchange now, its completely bananas.

e

xris · November 19, 2007

ph4rm3r_3d wrote:

Hey, I ordered up a whole bunch of goodies in October...

Great information PH! Exactly what I was looking for.

This is a first for me all-round. First PayPal purchase, first cross-border on-line purchase. So I'll compare and let you know. But I get the feeling I'll not do cross-border purchases lightly in the future.

Chris

ph4rm3r_3d · November 19, 2007

TNicole wrote:

What if it's an uninsured item under $50 in value? What fees will need to be taken care of?

AFAIK, you'll always get hit with GST on declared value. And the $8 brokers fee (if post, courier sometimes much more).

Sometimes, you can get away with stuff if its declared a gift (under something like $50), but I did get hit once for duty on an engineering sample of electronic components (which was free) and the UPS brokerage fee so that really started my anger with them.

DoctorIt · November 19, 2007

xris wrote:

Great information PH! Exactly what I was looking for.

This is a first for me all-round. First PayPal purchase, first cross-border on-line purchase. So I'll compare and let you know. But I get the feeling I'll not do cross-border purchases lightly in the future.

Chris

Not all borders are the same... I believe I've said this before, but shipping to Australia from the US has been no more painful than within the US. You fill out a customs form, and off it goes.

Lightly? Well, you shouldn't really do any sales online lightly.

It's a modern world, don't be country-centric is all I'm saying. Of course, do your homework and be prepared to wait a little longer due to distance, but don't rule out potential markets just because you have to write 5 words and sign a customs form.

DoctorIt · November 19, 2007

ph4rm3r_3d wrote:

AFAIK, you'll always get hit with GST on declared value.

Not necessarily.

Again, not all borders are the same. If you are buying from a merchant (ie B&H), there would be a customs fee. Peer-peer purchases (such as those on dgrin) are not considered taxable, again, at least here in Aus, as they are coming from a private party, not a business.

*Fellas: this thread title is very broad, so I'm not harshing your Canuck party, but I feel this is valuable info for other dgrinners considering worldwide exchanges, let's keep adding good info here.

Dizzle · November 19, 2007

Well item in question has been shipped with little to no fan fair. I had to fill out a little form saying what was in the box (Backpack $30 value) and pay out the wazoo to ship a 4lb box.

They said it would be 6-10 days.

Hope that is it, if so it was rather easy. I was told that if the value of the item was more than $40 or the box weighed more than 4lbs then I would have a whole different stack of papers to fill out.

DoctorIt · November 19, 2007

TNicole wrote:

Well item in question has been shipped with little to no fan fair...

Tiffany, for those of us not following as closely (or those months from now who search for this topic) can you mention what border and what carrier you used?

thanks

Dizzle · November 19, 2007

DoctorIt wrote:

Tiffany, for those of us not following as closely (or those months from now who search for this topic) can you mention what border and what carrier you used?

thanks

Certainly...sorry...

I sent one sub-4lb box to Toronto, Canada via USPS (United States Postal Service). In all actuality it was very easy and straight forward. One form to fill out.

I was told that had the item been heavier than 4lbs or worth more than $50 I would have had to fill out a few more lengthy forms.

I have been using USPS to ship everything for about 5 years now. UPS lost/broken more packages in a 2 year span (12) that USPS has in over 5 years (3) for me with my business.

xris · November 19, 2007

DoctorIt wrote:

... but don't rule out potential markets just because you have to write 5 words and sign a customs form.

You're right. This thread is great!

clap

It's not those trivial things that bother me, though. The problem is actually on several levels. I'm just across the border, yet I'm told WEEKS can be added to shipping, not to mention rather heavy-sounding brokerage fees AND potential taxes and administrive time. I may even have to go to the post office to pick up the package.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. But if this is all correct, it greatly decreases the value of such transactions.

What's worse is that my potential customers on SM have to deal with the same problems.

As an aside -- and from still very limited experience thus far -- they also have VERY long wait times receiving prints and are turned off by being forced to use credit cards cross-border (where there have been far more security problems) instead of PayPal.

I'm certainly no expert. That's why I'm trying to test the waters as throughly as possible. But so far, the potential looks great while the practice is proving problematic.

DoctorIt · November 19, 2007

xris wrote:

It's not those trivial things that bother me, though. The problem is actually on several levels. I'm just across the border, yet I'm told WEEKS can be added to shipping, not to mention rather heavy-sounding brokerage fees AND potential taxes and administrive time. I may even have to go to the post office to pick up the package.

This must be very Canada/US specific.

Ever since we moved to Oz a few months ago, we've gotten (and sent) quite a few packages, including a lens from dgrin. Besides one minor hiccup that was simply a USPS routing error causing the package to make a round trip of the US before leaving, everything has come in less than 2 weeks.

Again, I think the big distinction is packages that are labeled or clearly marked as business transactions. So for your photo/SmugMug business, there may be some ramifications. But, I just want to make it clear for the peer-peer flea market community, that the "trades" done here are not (to my knowledge, don't take me legally on that) bound by any taxation or duty.

Ann McRae · November 23, 2007

DoctorIt wrote:

This must be very Canada/US specific.

Again, I think the big distinction is packages that are labeled or clearly marked as business transactions. So for your photo/SmugMug business, there may be some ramifications. But, I just want to make it clear for the peer-peer flea market community, that the "trades" done here are not (to my knowledge, don't take me legally on that) bound by any taxation or duty.

Hi Eric

It is a Canada US thing.

Incoming goods to Canada, new or used, are subject to Canadian Goods and Services tax - always.

There is also always a brokerage fee by the carrier to 'ease' the parcel through Canada Customs - new, used, business material. USPS fees are the least.

In theory, gifts may be the exception, but labelling insured camera equipment as a gift hasn't worked for me!

As well, right now because the Cdn$ is so strong against others, many more of us are shopping on line and so the lean customs offices are overloaded. My fotofloat package sat in Canada Customs for 10 days.
As well, Canada Post (the carrier that takes over for USPS) is also whining about being too overloaded and so deliveries are delayed by them as well. (fotofoat - another 4 days to get delivered after customs).

Previously, I've recieved ground shipped parcels in a week, paid my fees and drooled over my new equipment.

I really want to order holiday cards through smugmug but I know they will not be here before mid to late December.

I have never taken advantage of smugmug printing because of exchange etc. I sell very few prints from my site, and typically do print fulfilment through a local print house.

Sigh - free trade agreement

ann

xris · November 23, 2007

Good Info!

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi Eric

It is a Canada US thing.

Incoming goods to Canada, new or used, are subject to Canadian Goods and Services tax - always.

There is also always a brokerage fee by the carrier to 'ease' the parcel through Canada Customs - new, used, business material. USPS fees are the least.

In theory, gifts may be the exception, but labelling insured camera equipment as a gift hasn't worked for me!

As well, right now because the Cdn$ is so strong against others, many more of us are shopping on line and so the lean customs offices are overloaded. My fotofloat package sat in Canada Customs for 10 days.
As well, Canada Post (the carrier that takes over for USPS) is also whining about being too overloaded and so deliveries are delayed by them as well. (fotofoat - another 4 days to get delivered after customs).

Previously, I've recieved ground shipped parcels in a week, paid my fees and drooled over my new equipment.

I really want to order holiday cards through smugmug but I know they will not be here before mid to late December.

I have never taken advantage of smugmug printing because of exchange etc. I sell very few prints from my site, and typically do print fulfilment through a local print house.

Sigh - free trade agreement

ann

Very cool info Ann. Thanks for clarifying the situation. I was beginning to feel like the 'odd man out' here.

xris · November 23, 2007

Update
Just a quick mention that the Blurb books I ordered last Sunday (Nov 18) arrived this afternoon (Nov 23) UPS ground!!! No taxes! No brokerage fees! And I'm in Southern Ontario Canada!

clap

Ann McRae · November 23, 2007

That's excellent.

I picked up my fotofloats today and there was gst owing. Now, I can go about claiming that back (and should, since it was $35). UPS does cover looking after waiving gst in their fee for service.

It is so complicated!

ann

xris wrote:

Just a quick mention that the Blurb books I ordered last Sunday (Nov 18) arrived this afternoon (Nov 23) UPS ground!!! No taxes! No brokerage fees! And I'm in Southern Ontario Canada!
clap

xris · November 29, 2007

Latest Cross Border
For those interested in Canada/US cross border shipping my latest experience is posted here:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=691774#post691774

JimM · December 7, 2007

At some point with the Canadian dollar where it is and price of electronics in the US, doesn't it make sense to make a quick drive down to Detroit to purchase the items. Tell customs on the way back you came for a vacation, hockey game or whatever?

Just a thought?

ScottMcLeod · December 10, 2007

JimM wrote:

At some point with the Canadian dollar where it is and price of electronics in the US, doesn't it make sense to make a quick drive down to Detroit to purchase the items. Tell customs on the way back you came for a vacation, hockey game or whatever?

Just a thought?

Illegal, but yes.

USPS so far has been my best friend. I've brought up over 2k$ since the US dollar has been good, and NOT one problem.

DoctorIt · December 10, 2007

ScottMcLeod wrote:

Illegal, but yes.

Not illegal if you declare it. We did this the other way a couple times when living in Detroit. There was a hi-fi shop in Windsor that sold us speakers for less than mail-order. We were given a form at the border, filled out, paid a small tax. Nothing illegal.

Just to be clear, this thread is all about proper ways of shipping items across the border. Many folks think its black magic, our point here is to help those folks. There are simple customs forms to fill out, and in some cases, duties to pay, so Scott, I certainly hope that in saying:

ScottMcLeod wrote:

USPS so far has been my best friend. I've brought up over 2k$ since the US dollar has been good, and NOT one problem.

you are simply saying that of all couriers, USPS has been easiest for you in terms of delivering properly taxed packages. Right?

Ann McRae · December 11, 2007

DoctorIt wrote:

Not illegal if you declare it.

Right - and so as a Canadian travelling, you will be entitled to a certain $ value of 'duty free' goods, that increases the longer you are out of country. Above your limit, you then pay applicable duty. If you do not travel to make your purchase, then applicable duty applies to the whole amount.

In many cases, even after paying the appropriate duty, the price of goods from the US is much better than the same good in Canada, now that the $s are about par. A co worker of mine is saving close to $4K by driving from Edmonton to Spokane to buy a washer and drier - this after she pays for gas and applicable duty and gst! Canadian retailers are screaming at Canadians to shop at home, but... if you were to really think about the difference in pricing, it cannot be accounted for by exchange and duty, and in reality we Canadians pay a premium for being Canadian.

More cross border shopping will put economic pressure on the distribution chain to bring the prices into line.

DoctorIt · December 11, 2007

Ann McRae wrote:

...we Canadians pay a premium for being Canadian.

You think you have it bad, you should see what Canon charges for gear here in Oz!

Thanks for the clear added info, Ann

jkcashin · December 20, 2007

Ann McRae wrote:

There is also always a brokerage fee by the carrier to 'ease' the parcel through Canada Customs - new, used, business material. USPS fees are the least.

In theory, gifts may be the exception, but labelling insured camera equipment as a gift hasn't worked for me!

ann

You can actually do your own brokerage: it's just paperwork, but it's hard to convince shippers to ship, then hold goods while you do the brokerage. I am fortunate enough to live in Ottawa so I live close to the border... 45 minutes from Ogdensburg, so I always ship UPS to Ogdensburg UPS store which will hold a package for me for $5 ($10 for tires) and you drive across, fetch the goods, and declare it on the way back. The shipper doesn't even have to be UPS to use the UPS store as the final destination. Here's the info.. I have given it out so many times it's gotten on to my friends web page: http://web.quay.net/stuff/ogdensburg

Ding your own brokerage is a bit of a pain, and since Ogdensburg is so close for me I just drive across. Since 95% of the population of Canada lives within 100k of the US border, many of my fellow Canucks have this same option. For those further away, or where there's no UPS store to ship to, it's not so easy, but you could look into doing your own brokerage.

Labeling as gifts only works for items valued under $60 and is technically fraudulent if it's not a gift. The savings on duty on a $60 item is not worth the penalty. The Canada Customs and Revenue Agency takes these matters very seriously. I know because my partner forgot to declare something (1 of several items) at the border and got fined... it could have been much worse.

For those who wonder why bother... I payed $57 a tire for my Blizacs on my Golf... they were $120 each locally. Even after I drive down, paid taxes, the $5 fee, all fees and even the toll on the bridge both ways, I was only into the tires for about $260 total. Locally that would have been $552 for the set. And Camera gear is the same. A lens I have been looking at will be about $620 to my door but is $1,100 locally... and that's before taxes!

Jamie

jkcashin · December 20, 2007

JimM wrote:

At some point with the Canadian dollar where it is and price of electronics in the US, doesn't it make sense to make a quick drive down to Detroit to purchase the items. Tell customs on the way back you came for a vacation, hockey game or whatever?

Just a thought?

Both US and Canada Customs know when you crossed the border in either direction, so you'll have to tell the truth about how long you were there. The amount of time you were in the US will affect how much duty free alcohol, tobacco products and other products you are permitted to bring back. You can go above the limits, but you pay duty above those limits. If you're across for less than 24 hours, that limit is $0. Yep, ZERO. From 24 to 48 hours it goes up to $50. 48 hours to 7 days it's $400. After 7 days it's $750. Here's the official info:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5056-eng.html#P020

But don't let that scare you! Often all you pay is GST and PST. If the goods were manufactured in the USA you don't pay duty anyway, and the duty on goods manufactured outside the US is not that bad.. often much less than 3%. When you're saving upwards of 40-60% anyway, who cares about paying 3% on the lesser price!

So if you're gonna tell the truth about the time, may as well tell the truth about why you're there too! "I was shopping" is a perfectly legitimate, and oft-cited reason for crossing the border.

Any Cross Border Shipping Advice?

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