What to Buy? -- Sportraits

wmstumme · January 12, 2008

Looking for some advice. Basically I've been taking action shots at a bunch of games over the past year--and am getting a good response. However, we keep getting asked about doing the normal posed team and individual portraits. I'm not really sure about getting into this aspect of sports photography--but I know it is pretty lucrative. So, I'm interested in sticking my toe in this arena and am looking for a recommended shopping list. I have a 30D, some shorter lenses; a 50mm f1.8, a 28-135mm 3.5-5.6, and an 18-55mm kit lens. (I don't think I'd be using my Sigma-Bigma.) I have no flashes or other lighting.

So, I would really like to know what your equipment recommendations are. Please note, I don't want to break the bank on this effort. I want to buy quality items--but not necessarily gold plated ones...

Thanks for any advice

KED · January 12, 2008

For that kind of stuff it's not about the gear. Any gear beyond a P&S will do , but having been involved with youth sports for a very long time, what people want is to be able to purchase not only prints, but things like 3-D cutouts, mugs, pins, etc. You can probably do a lot of that through SmugMug, you just need to decide whether it's worthwhile and whether you want to be in that space.

swintonphoto · January 12, 2008

I agree - your gear is more than adequate to do the job.
In terms of doing sports team and individual shots, I do some of this through my studio. I have set packages I offer with a set price. Typically I offer 1-5x7 and 4-wallets for $15. I offer an 8x10 and 4-wallets for $20, and the option of buying an 11x14 for $35. I also include display easels for the prints. I find it works - just give a few package options. Give a price you are comfortable with. I wouldn't go lower than I have listed. Sometimes I charge more - it depends on the size of the team etc. But, to do a team shot and individual shots of a whole soccer team for instance takes me maybe 30-45 minutes, and you can make some decent money. I always include business cards when I deliver the prints - good advertising.

Dbl · January 13, 2008

wmstumme wrote:

Looking for some advice. Basically I've been taking action shots at a bunch of games over the past year--and am getting a good response. However, we keep getting asked about doing the normal posed team and individual portraits. I'm not really sure about getting into this aspect of sports photography--but I know it is pretty lucrative. So, I'm interested in sticking my toe in this arena and am looking for a recommended shopping list. I have a 30D, some shorter lenses; a 50mm f1.8, a 28-135mm 3.5-5.6, and an 18-55mm kit lens. (I don't think I'd be using my Sigma-Bigma.) I have no flashes or other lighting.

So, I would really like to know what your equipment recommendations are. Please note, I don't want to break the bank on this effort. I want to buy quality items--but not necessarily gold plated ones...

Thanks for any advice

Sounds like me a few years back, wanted nothing to do with T&I. I found out if you want to make good money you need to add this work along with action. I just finished two teams this week and will clear a very nice total for roughly 6 hours work. I sell a lot of action shots but I would have to shoot for a long period of time to get close to these numbers.

I can speak to your equipment requirements and give you some of my thoughts. I disagree with KED and its not about the gear. What makes these tough to shoot is that when the day is scheduled you take the shots in spite of conditions. This is not a studio shoot. If the weather is extreme you need a backup date. Example; this week I shot a XC Ski team outside on their course and just finished a swim team in the poorest lit pool you can imagine. One needed virtually no equipment and the other tested everything I own. The equipment you have really won't allow you to accomplish both of those types of shoots successfully.

I am seeing a large increase in business in the T&I market because most of these shots are just not done well along with waiting weeks for pictures. We strive for studio quality shots done on location along with shooting the first day and pictures all packaged and to the customer on day three. We have failed that goal once in the two years I entered this part of the market.

Equipment, a few things that are highly recommended. A 70-200/2.8 I have two, one with IS, a 28-75/2.8 or something equivalent. I use a 17-40/f4 for large groups in tight locations (think pools). I also use an 85/1.8, a 28-75/2.8 a 50/1.8 and occasionally a 300/2.8! Fast glass is highly recommended for low light situations, and to give you some nice bokeh on backgrounds. At least one flash but two or three is better. Umbrella's, diffuser's, scrims, reflectors, stands, Pocket Wizards, sand bags, and the knowledge to use all of them. I am looking at a strobe system with power packs to help with all the crazy light situations I run into along with a scrim shelter that would enclose the subject for even lighting.

A few other considerations. Number one is insurance! If one of those light stands blows over and knocks someone in the head well....I carry a two million dollar liability policy and my company is an LLC. If you get sued because of an accident you don't want to lose your house, vehicles, savings, etc. Think it won't happen? I won't take that chance. I get sued they get my camera gear and a computer or two. My life goes on.

You have to get it right the first time. There is no do over with these shoots or you will fast find yourself with out contracts! How do you frame the shots to get many different photo sizes. Do they fit in folders for display as cropped? How loose do you shoot group shots to fit 5x7 and 8x10? How loose do you shot individual shots for buttons or magnets? What if something does go wrong, what is your policy on re-shooting and when? Who pays for your mistake? Thankfully I have never had to use this but I have a policy spelled out in the contract stating what I will do.

A system of ordering and fulfilling along with an organizational set up that will get you through large teams in a quick amount of time. You must keep faces with orders. I sometimes have two or three camera's going on larger teams. You must be quick! The bare minimum is a two person setup, shooter and assistant.

Contracts, what will you provide, what is expected from the organization. Believe me even if the group are your friends this is something you don't want to learn the hard way. Spell out exactly what you will provide and for what cost. Most of my contracts now combine T&I along with action, yearbook photos, program covers, year end posters, etc. If you are throwing in the kitchen sink make sure its in the contract.

I am not pointing any of this out to discourage you at all. Just know that if you want to be different than the rest and produce a product that will be of high quality, you will need to think this through. I started with smaller groups outdoors only and as revenue came in added more equipment. Every shoot I added something I knew I would need for the next shoot. As the equipment increased I added tougher locations (pools, gyms, etc) and larger teams. You will have to re-teach your customers, by that I mean as they see the quality of your work the next year they will order more than just a basic shot. This has spun off to senior portraits, parties, more action shoots. We averaged around 50%-60% orders the first year based on previous photographer's, the last few repeat customers have been almost 100% orders and the dollar value they order has doubled.

Most of these points have been learned the hard way. You can choose to do this work anyway you want and just go out with basic equipment and provide some photos. Since I am charging for work and operating a business I feel obligated to provide professional service and product, others obviously feel different which is why my business is increasing. None of us is going to get rich shooting just action shots, if you want to actually generate some capital you will consider looking at expanding your revenue base. I just touched on some of the things I could think of off hand. I hope you got some useful information.

wmstumme · January 14, 2008

Thanks for all the words. Especially Dan, I really appreciate the time you put into the response--and your recommendations on insurance, LLCs, etc. If I could ask one more favor--if you had to distill down a "starter pack" on some of the lighting equipment, what would you recommend?

PS: I really started off as a hobby--and I enjoy taking the action shots. Not sure if I want another "job"--that's one big reason why I 've been hesitant on the Team and Indiv. shots. So, I'm more excited about buying new glass--no matter what comes of this adventure, I'll use that! I'm not sure how much I'd use the lighting equip for "fun."

craftgirl · January 14, 2008

Wow, Dan, Thanks so much for all of the info. I have thought about asking all the questions you just answered and thanks to Will for bringing it up!

I think I will be starting on the smaller side and hopefully grow like you have....I have another question for you and Will....how did you start in the first place. My son plays soccer and basketball and my daughter is a cheerleader. I go to the games and shoot with my "wow, thats an awesome camera" camera...lol but no one has approached me asking for shots and I havent exactly started networking.....whats your story? how did you move into the actual selling of your shots?

It's funny how I have no problem shooting and networking in NASCAR but I am hesitant in the neighborhood....lol

Thanks for your input and suggestions in advance!

mercphoto · January 15, 2008

Dbl wrote:

I am seeing a large increase in business in the T&I market because most of these shots are just not done well along with waiting weeks for pictures. We strive for studio quality shots done on location along with shooting the first day and pictures all packaged and to the customer on day three. We have failed that goal once in the two years I entered this part of the market.

Most of my neighbors have kids in youth sports. Know their number one complaint about the team photos? Quality. Number two is delivery delays. I think I know why you've had an incrase in your T&I business.

Good advice in your entire post.

Dbl · January 15, 2008

Will,

I think I alluded to the basic equipment probably not that clearly but you can get by with a single flash and maybe a collapsible reflector. This will work well for your individual shots...but the team photos are another problem. A single flash just won't give you coverage on team shots. A second flash will certainly get you better results. The problem now is you will need both flashes off camera and on stands to give you even coverage, then you need to trigger them. You can see where I'm going here.

The best solution to that is to shoot where the lighting can be controlled, another words, cloudy overcast days, available light inside a venue. Now if I could just control the lighting on the days I have scheduled for team shots.....Individuals are easy, team shots, good team shots are where you need a little help with lights.

Basic minimum to accomplish both individuals and teams, two flashes, two stands, a way to trigger them. Hope for decent light and you might not need anything but a camera and lens. I guess you need to decide if you want to spend your earnings from a shoot and re-invest in more equipment to help with the headaches.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. You might find it a whole new challenge that can be quite fun.

Craftgirl,

Sounds like you already are well on your way to taking the first steps. Don't wait for people to approach you, meet with booster clubs or organizations that your son and daughter are involved with, let them know what you can provide for them. What can you provide? I think many people that start into the sports market think its a matter of shooting pictures and getting them on line and let the sales roll in. After a year of struggling they find that it is not as easy as it appeared. Its been said time and again on these boards and elsewhere that being successful in the photo business is about 90% marketing and 10% photography.

I started much like you with kids involved in activities and coaching many of their teams. Contacts were made and opportunities became available. With those opportunities more opened up. Constantly market yourself and your capabilities, produce a quality product and you will have success.

Thanks Bill for the kind words, I know you have been down this road as well.

wmstumme · January 15, 2008

Dan:

Thanks so much for the advice. I prefer shooting outside in natural light--but right now it's basketball season so we're talking indoors and probably needing some flash. Really appreciate getting some ideas about what to think about.

Craftgirl--

I got started taking shots for myself at my daughter's games. Just began sharing some of the better ones with some of the other parents. Then it just kinda snowballed from there. About a year and a half ago, it kinda snowballed when I had taken photos at several of my daughter's high school games, and I just couldn't keep up with giving copies/CDs to everyone who wanted one. Ran across SmugMug about the same time and saw an opportunity to be able to distribute/share photos with much less effort and perhaps buy some better equipment. Then friends who are team coaches and rec league commissioners have continued to ask us to come take some shots, and it just kinda keeps growing. We've only been doing this for about 13 months, but it's been fun...

Good luck with yours...

PS: What part of Maryland are you from?

craftgirl · January 15, 2008

Guys, Thank you so much for the info! This is why i love this place so much!:D

I am in Southern Anne Arundel County about 15 min from Annapolis. Are you in the area, Will.

bikingbets · January 16, 2008

Chiming in with perhaps a dumb question:
Which smugmug account is best for distributing the photos taken at kids' games? Did you start out by taking a cut, or did they order straight from smugmug?
I'm trying to decide which way to join when I do get my account.

wmstumme · January 16, 2008

Craftgirl--I'm a bit north of Annapolis--In between Glen Burnie and Crofton--as you might tell from some of jerseys...

bikingbets wrote:

Chiming in with perhaps a dumb question:
Which smugmug account is best for distributing the photos taken at kids' games? Did you start out by taking a cut, or did they order straight from smugmug?
I'm trying to decide which way to join when I do get my account.

I started right away with the Pro account--but have kept the "cut" pretty low. I'm really just trying to cover costs at this point -- the Smugmug fees were easy to cover, it's lenses and other stuff that add up. I've also liked all the control and flexibility the pro account gives. However, now that my first pro-am tax season is coming up, we'll see how everything goes. Otherwise, everything has been great. With Smugmug's guarantee's, I don't worry too much if someone is unsatisfied. Haven't had that yet--but it's nice to know they take care of everything.

stirfry · January 17, 2008

craftgirl wrote:

I go to the games and shoot with my "wow, thats an awesome camera" camera...lol but no one has approached me asking for shots and I havent exactly started networking.....whats your story?

The youth organizations that my kids are involved in all have contracted photographers. A few years ago one of those photographers came over during a game he was shooting (and my son was playing in) to chat. He noticed we had the same brand camera body and offered to let me play with his pro lens

(it was about as tall as I was, sheesh!) We established that he didn't have any kids that played, so I asked how he got started taking pics for the organization. He said it was as simple as approaching the Board of Directors of the league. Originally he was granted permission to shoot action shots during games, but they already had someone for T&I shots. Eventually he got his own contract with the organization to cover both action as well as T&I shots. Still later he showed up at a different sport/venue we play at, again as THE contracted photographer for action plus T&I shots.

He said he researched the organization's website to find the best person to talk with, and emailed them with a link to his portfolio and the invitation to talk if an opportunity became available. He didn't know it, but the league had been displeased with the T&I photographer but kept renewing her contract because nobody (on the volunteer board) ever thought about or actively sought out a replacement for her! Complaints from parents and coaches about her, mostly the same reasons as outlined below - I noticed she had a talent for great pictures, but perhaps not the best business sense (the season was usually over or close to over during the 4 years she was contracted to work during my own tenure with the league). She didn't offer good packages either - it was piece by piece ordering or a gigantic package that rivaled a package you might buy for senior pics or something else more 'major'.

Consider just approaching the BOD either in person or through the website

Best of luck!

craftgirl · January 18, 2008

Great advise, Stirfry. Thank you so much!

What to Buy? -- Sportraits

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