What would you do...?

DrDavid · January 28, 2008

I've been chosen as the "official" action-photo photographer for our community Little League. It's a fantastic opportunity to showcase my skills, and I'm quite excited about it!

I've done some action photos before, but, not for baseball; which brings me to my question...

I've been asked to create a flyer that will be handed out to all the parents on orientation night. Of course, I wanted to create a flyer with samples of MY photography, but, I have no baseball photography that I could put on a flyer! So, I figure I have a few options... 1) Use stock photography to show baseball images, 2) Use vector-based art only to give a cartoonish feel to the flyer (no photos), 3) No photos at all--just 'information' for the parents..

I have offered to do the printing of the flyer myself... I have a high-speed color laser printer, so, will be printing this in full color (which is why I really want photos on the flyer). But, without my OWN photos, is it OK to use Royalty Free stock images on a photography advertisement? The parents will naturally think *I* took the images... I don't want to be deceptive, but, the reality is that it's been raining non-stop here ("Sunny Southern California"??), and even if I wanted to, there's no way I could shoot any baseball images before this flyer needs to be done. Also, I am promoting 'quality' over 'quantity'. They're used to the previous vendor who shot and printed *everything*, then offered a deal of $40 for all the photos that include your child as the main focal point of the image. But, the photos were, well, crap.

My plan is to use smugmug for fulfillment (at about $10 for a 4x6, $15 for a 5x7, etc..). Every photo sold will be retouched; so they will be much higher quality that the junk last year (printed on no-name brand paper even...). Also, we're planning on making a blurb book for each team (or for the whole league.. not sure yet) with lots of photos in it (and selling it for an appropriate amount of money).

Any input is appreciated on both the flyer images issue, and the way we're planning on selling the photos.

Thanks!!

claudermilk · January 29, 2008

In that situation, I'd definitely forgo any photography at all. Either line art or no art until I could get some of my own shots to add in.

darkdragon · January 29, 2008

claudermilk wrote:

In that situation, I'd definitely forgo any photography at all. Either line art or no art until I could get some of my own shots to add in.

I completely agree. Not necessarily "cartoony" but simple line art - I'm thinking similar to the type of art on the old "peechee" folders. Keep it very simple and not cluttered, keep the paragraphs short and the order form (if you have one) simple to understand.

When designing the flyer, dates and prices are very important (if you have them listed). I think it's best to not use photos at all in this case. Next year you'll have plenty to choose from

stirfry · January 29, 2008

What an exciting venture ~ it sounds like you're on your way to a successful season!

I'd forgo any photographs that weren't yours. I might include a link with a line about see examples of my work [here] just so interested parents (that would be me!) could get an idea of your style and talent, perhaps bookmark the website before the season starts and things get start to get all crazy busy.

I get business cards on the field, shove them in my pocket, and then rarely remember to dig them out once I get home, and view the pics posted online. It could just be me, but during the season things tend to get hectic. The only pictures I usually remember to check are the websites I have bookmarked from prior seasons and/or I have subscribed to a feed for.

Also make sure to include in your contract something along the lines of the league providing a link from their own website to your smugmug website. So many of the parents where I live check the league website for regular updates (team standings, weather, tournaments, etc.) and I'd imagine that an 'ad' could generate traffic from people like me who aren't good about keeping business cards handy. Some leagues will do this, some won't unless you're a "sponsor" (in which case it may be worth it to sponsor, too).

Can't wait to see some of your pics once the season gets underway.

nipprdog · January 29, 2008

Sounds like a great opportunity. What type equipment will you be using?

gman33 · January 31, 2008

David...great job and congrats. I really don't think that the flyer has to pertain the actual sport that you are advertising. As long as you have some decent shots of sports that you have taken, this at least shows your skills

I was put in the same position late last year and it has taken off. I was asked to shoot a friend's son's football game and the parents went wild. This is now what I am mostly concentrating on. With my site, I thought about the future and what could possibly happen if I venture into other areas. So what I did was created a launch site called ergphoto.com which I have hosted through HostMonster. On this page I have two logos, one pointing to my smugmug site, the other to my new sports action site that I created which is actually pointing to a sub-folder under my main domain. In the future, if I should ever want to do weddings or something else, I could just add another logo or something and point it to another sub-folder for just that

From the sports site, in the Photos page, I have direct links to my smugmug gallery for that particular event. From my smugmug site, there is no direct link to these galleries, however if you go to Galleries-->Sports, it takes you back to my Photos page on the other site.

I was worried about speed but it appears to be working out fine from what users tell me.

With the added sports action site, I felt that it was easier for me to customize using my own skills and software. Although it was expensive at first to setup with the hosting and my time, it has paid off.

Let me know if I can help you out with anything.

Although I feel that my skills as a photographer are far from being any good, the opportunity presented itself since no one else was doing it. I guess perfect timing you can say. I also just had a banner 3 x 6' made up to hang at games...anything to bring traffic in

P.S.>>>> Also, my league requires a background check for anyone working with the teams. I am in the process of getting this done as well. I had a post about this in this thread forum

Best of luck
Ed

DrDavid · January 31, 2008

Well, I'm thinking of not using any photos and just making it an "informational" sheet.. I got some comments that people think the photos are expensive (apparently, photos take no time to produce, edit, white balance, correct, etc..), so I want to explain the "Why" to the parents. Things like the paper we use (archive paper), color managed workflow, etc..

I shoot with a Rebel XT, and I'll probably end up buying another body so that I can have two cameras going at once. I have a 70-300 IS lens, a 50mm f/1.4 and the 18-55 kit lens. My thought was to use the telephoto lens to take the close up action shots (it'll be fast enough to do a good job of that), and the kit lens for field overview shots (on a second camera).

I have my workflow down to a fine art by now--lightroom, Lightroom export to SmugMug, LR/Mogrify piglet plugin, etc.. make it a one-click process to upload the photos and keep track of them. I also bought the i2e Pro processor and S*E so I can further boost the workflow. (And, of course, I've used the i1 Display 2 to calibrate to 6500K, 2.2gamma and about 98 lumens on my laptop display.. let's me see ALL gray scales, pure black, etc.. did a good job

)

Once I'm done the flyer, I'll post the text and you guys can rip it apart..

Thanks!

nipprdog · January 31, 2008

DrDavid wrote:

.. I got some comments that people think the photos are expensive

No offense, but considering you have no experience shooting baseball, and are using the same consumer level equipment that the parents on the sidelines have, I'm inclined to agree with them.

Again, just trying to help. But at $10 for a 4x6 and $15 for a 5x7, you're higher than most of the seasoned sports shooters, as well as most of the on-site printer shooters.

Of course, I don't know your market, since I'm in Indiana.

But for reference, last year I was at $5, $7, and $12, and I sold over one thousand pics. However, I will be bumping up my prices this year. Maybe 6,8 and 13 or 14.

Again, just trying to help.

Do get another body for back up, but don't worry about shooting with the 50mm lenses. Parents don't want wide shots
showing many players, they want tight shots of their kids. I started out lugging my 80-200 2.8 on one body and my 300 f4(soon to be a 300 2.8) on another body. That didn't last long. For baseball, and everything but soccer, I only carry the 300. And for soccer this season, I only plan to carry a 300 2.8 and a 1.4 converter.

Hope this helps.

DrDavid · February 1, 2008

nipprdog wrote:

No offense, but considering you have no experience shooting baseball, and are using the same consumer level equipment that the parents on the sidelines have, I'm inclined to agree with them.

Actually, it was a soccer mom that was complaining... Not the Little League

But, the body of the camera isn't what makes a picture good.. And the IS 70-300 is better than what the parents will have (point and shoot and/or kit lens). I'm also perfectly willing to buy new/more/better equipment if I need it.

nipprdog wrote:

at $10 for a 4x6 and $15 for a 5x7, you're higher than most of the seasoned sports shooters, as well as most of the on-site printer shooters.

That's what I love about dgrin; I can get advice about everything--including prices

I guess I'm used to the computer biz where I can charge any ol' price I want, and my clients will pay it because they know I'm a seasoned pro on servers/networks/etc... I'm still getting this whole pricing photo thing down pat...

nipprdog wrote:

Of course, I don't know your market, since I'm in Indiana. But for reference, last year I was at $5, $7, and $12, and I sold over one thousand pics. However, I will be bumping up my prices this year. Maybe 6,8 and 13 or 14.

Well, for soccer it was $7 for a 5x7 (4x6 image with the other inch taken up with a date and a bunch of logos, etc..), or some amount for 3 pics, and $35 or so for "all the photos with your child in it". But, it was printed on cheap paper, crappy images, most of the pics were awful, etc..

nipprdog wrote:

Again, just trying to help. Do get another body for back up, but don't worry about shooting with the 50mm lenses. Parents don't want wide shots showing many players, they want tight shots of their kids. I started out lugging my 80-200 2.8 on one body and my 300 f4(soon to be a 300 2.8) on another body. That didn't last long. For baseball, and everything but soccer, I only carry the 300. And for soccer this season, I only plan to carry a 300 2.8 and a 1.4 converter.

This is a new experience for me. It's a community league, and I'm very excited about the opportunity. Quite frankly, if it goes well I'm serious about photography, so, I'll end up spending quite a bit on new equipment. So, next year it'll be even better..

I have some examples of our soccer photos from last year.. http://www.wolfsnap.com/gallery/3847187

Also, I think the fact that I shoot in RAW, etc. will let me shoot way nicer photos than what the parents can. I guess I see it as the place I'm replacing used expensive equipment, but had a crummy product. I'm using cheaper stuff (but, still good IMHO), but, we're willing to spend the time to make it look really nice.

Anyways, I really do appreciate C&C, even if it's bad..

MJRPHOTO · February 1, 2008

I get the same complaints about my prices but I will not lower them.
Here is what I charge.
(1)4x6 $10
(1)5x7 $15
(1)8x12 $25
(1)11x14 $40
(1)12x18 $50
(1)12x24 $75
(1)12x36 $100
(1)20x30 $100

(1)8x12 + (1)5x7 + (1)4x6 $40 (same photo)

10% off any order within (1) week of posting

Free shipping for orders over $75

I sold over 2800 photo's last year.

What would you do...?

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