Advice for shooting shutter priority in indoor arenas?

MRudlandMRudland Registered Users Posts: 285 Major grins
edited February 27, 2008 in Sports
Most of my shooting is outdoors, but every now and again, I'm asked to shoot an inside event and I struggle with these.
Can someone explain to me (in very simple child-like terms! LOL) how to best use shutter priority in an indoor arena? No strobes? Why are they so much darker? Any advice would be welcome!
Michelle

Comments

  • CuongCuong Registered Users Posts: 1,508 Major grins
    edited February 25, 2008
    Michelle,

    An exposure is controlled by 3 factors:
    1. ISO (sensitivity of the image sensor to light)
    2. Shutter speed (exposure time to light - shorter time to freeze movement)
    3. Aperture (lens opening affecting amount of light coming through and depth of focus).

    When you're using shutter priority mode, you control the shutter speed and the camera adjusts the aperture. If you're getting dark photos, that means your lens doesn't have a large enough aperture to accommodate the shutter speed you're using. If you need that shutter speed, then use flash for more light, get a lens with a larger aperture, or raise the ISO value. Higher ISO means noisier image. There is a trade off with every choice, but you get to pick the one that works best for you.

    I hope this helps.

    Cuong
    "She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
  • i_worship_the_Kingi_worship_the_King Registered Users Posts: 548 Major grins
    edited February 25, 2008
    very interesting... I look forward to some people that know what they're doing posting on this subject mwink.gif

    Now for my 2c. (Side note, what kind of camera/lens are you working with? This information could help generate better information for you.) (Side note #2, the light inside a building is no where near the brightness of outdoors. You can check this using a shadow test. I don't remember the particulars, but you can look at how 'hard' your shadow is and get a feel for the brightness. Outdoors on a sunny day your shadow is very well defined (ie, 'hard'). As you get cloud cover it becomes 'soft' turning into a mass instead of a person. Do the same indoors, if you can't see things like your camera strap on a nearby wall then you're going to need either a flash or other means to get more light into the camera (faster glass, higher ISO, bigger aperature, etc))

    When I shoot basketball and volleyball I usually shoot in aperature priority for 5-10 test shots, chimp the histograms and then go full manual. I do this because I already know that I want the maximum aperature I can get out of my lens (because the lighting SUCKS here). Then there's the lovely problem of hotspots around the gym, where lighting can be almost a full stop different. From the test shots I try and find a happy medium that I can do a little correcting in PS later if necessary.

    When shooting in the gym here I use (just as a rough reference - these are the settings I use from different ends of the floor, one side has more lights for graduation ceremonies... I know, it's retarded):

    f/1.8 (50mm prime)
    ISO 640 or 800
    1/250 or 1/320
    Spot focus on center frame
    Adaptive focus == on

    Best of luck clap.gif:D

    **EDIT:** I've been told that you can use flash for b-ball, but not v-ball. If you don't have fast(er) glass a flash would be a nice alternative.
    I make it policy to never let ignorance stand in the way of my opinion. ~Justiceiro

    "Your decisions on whether to buy, when to buy and what to buy should depend on careful consideration of your needs primarily, with a little of your wants thrown in for enjoyment, After all photography is a hobby, even for pros."
    ~Herbert Keppler
  • moose135moose135 Registered Users Posts: 1,420 Major grins
    edited February 25, 2008
    That's some very good advice from yukio. I don't shoot very much indoor sports, and when I do it's as a spectator, but I do try to get it right. Also, since I'm shooting pro sports events, the lighting is probably better than in a high school gym, although it's still not great.

    My technique is to shoot as wide-open as I can, and at as fast a shutter speed as I can get to try to free the action. I check the historgram and adjust the ISO accordingly for exposure.

    Here are some samples of my shots:
    1/800, f/2.8, ISO 320

    232283995_XPHRt-L.jpg


    1/500, f/3.5, ISO 800
    144117750_TvJKe-L.jpg
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited February 26, 2008
    MRudland wrote:
    Can someone explain to me (in very simple child-like terms! Laughing.gif) how to best use shutter priority in an indoor arena? No strobes? Why are they so much darker? Any advice would be welcome!
    Michelle

    My advice is - you shouldn't use shutter priority. It's a poor choice for most sport shooting and particularly low light. As another poster mentioned, shutter priority allows the camera to meter the situation and adjust the aperture to obtain proper exposure. You are getting dark photos most likely because you don't have a wide enough aperture possible on the lens you're using to obtain a proper exposure given the ISO and shutter speed settings you're using. That's a real danger with shutter priority - you have the greatest chance of underexposure in all the automatic modes.

    But, I also tend to recommend against AV mode for indoor sports shooting as well. The reason is this: the camera's metering will get fooled by bright objects in the frame. In most games, one team has white jerseys. The light reflects off that and the cameras metering adjusts and you end up with underexposed shots. You can get a stop or more difference in metering based upon color of jerseys. But you dont want to expose for jerseys you want to expose for faces.

    In 95% of gyms I've shot in the lighting is consistent (it might be bad but it's consistent). So, the advice to take some test shots and dial in a manual exposure is right on the money.

    Your goal should be shutter speeds of at least 1/400. At that speed you'll still get a little motion blur in extremities but not a lot in basketball. In volleyball you'll have a good amount of blur in the hand for a kill and the ball will still be a bit blurred (1/640 is a nice speed for volleyball but pretty much unattainable in most HS and below gyms unless you're at 3200 and f2.0).

    Realize though you need the right equipment to get good exposures indoors AND get good shutter speeds. By your post it doesn't sound like you're talking about spectator shots at a pro event so I'll assume HS and below. I would say ISO 1600, f2.0 and 1/400 is a pretty common setting (+/- 1/3 stop). So, if you plan on using a 2.8 lens, you should either be at 3200 or have underexposed images or slow shutter speeds. If you dont have a 2.8 lens then you'll need an external flash because f4 isn't good enough (below Div 1 NCAA level).
  • i_worship_the_Kingi_worship_the_King Registered Users Posts: 548 Major grins
    edited February 26, 2008
    The expert has spoken! bowdown.gif

    *logs tips in book*
    I make it policy to never let ignorance stand in the way of my opinion. ~Justiceiro

    "Your decisions on whether to buy, when to buy and what to buy should depend on careful consideration of your needs primarily, with a little of your wants thrown in for enjoyment, After all photography is a hobby, even for pros."
    ~Herbert Keppler
  • MRudlandMRudland Registered Users Posts: 285 Major grins
    edited February 27, 2008
    The expert has spoken! bowdown.gif

    *logs tips in book*

    Thanks guys and gals! I need to do some experimenting!
    Michelle
  • sportsshooter06sportsshooter06 Registered Users Posts: 194 Major grins
    edited February 27, 2008
    MRudland wrote:
    Most of my shooting is outdoors, but every now and again, I'm asked to shoot an inside event and I struggle with these.
    Can someone explain to me (in very simple child-like terms! Laughing.gif) how to best use shutter priority in an indoor arena? No strobes? Why are they so much darker? Any advice would be welcome!
    Michelle

    Indoors, Take a custom WB or use Auto wb
    Use the highest ISO setting your camera will allow, that gives a clean photo, as little noise as possible.
    I would shoot in Matrix or center weight, if you are shooting something moving, I do not see how you can spot meter.
    Use aperture priority, using the biggest aperture your lens allows. This lets in the most light.
    Let the shutter speed drift a little. If your ISO is high enough, and the aperture at least 2.8, then shutter speed should be ok.
    All of this is depending on your equipment, the lights indoors, and what you are shooting.
    Basketball, volleyball,etc. may be a bit easier than swimming, hockey, track, gymnastics.

    Those are the basics. have fun
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