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Pics of youth basketball: What I've learned about sports photography this season
Hi folks!
Well, yesterday marked the end of my son's youth basketball season. I thought I'd share what I learned in the process of taking photos of the games this year. I believe we learn just as much by showing the poor shots as the good ones so I hope this is helpful.
I started off by reading some tutorials here on shooting basketball:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=22950
I only have a three lens system at the moment: 1) a 29-88mm f/3.5, 2) a 45-216mm f/3.5 and 3) a 80mm f/1.8 prime (all the focal lengths have been converted to 35mm equivalent). My camera, a Canon 40D, has reasonable high ISO performance and a very fast 6.5 fps shooting speed. Both of these factors helped to capture the action. Of course, youth basketball has reduced action compared to basketball played by older players.
I used the 29-88mm f/3.5 on my initial attempts but was only able to keep the shutter speeds in the 1/100th of a second range. This made the ball, shoes and hands blurry and induced panning.
I used Canon's "servo focus" mode to continuously track the focus, but I occasionally found that the camera would focus on the wrong player. This mode also had a "jerkyness" to it as the focus would hunt a lot while I was shooting.
I also used my 28-135mm (45-216mm in 35mm equivalent) lens. I found that the sharp backgrounds could be distracting, though, and I needed a wider aperture to blur them.
I ended up using my 50mm (80mm in 35mm equivalent) f/1.8 lens shot at f/2.0 and ISO 1000-1250 for most shots. Even then, the backgrounds were sometimes distracting as there were plenty of little kids and coaches "just hanging around".
No harm, no foul?
In summary:
1) I settled in on the 50mm (80mm in 35mm equivalent) f/1.8 prime lens. This gave me excellent sharpness and nice bokeh, through there were times I could have used a wider angle or the background was still too distracting.
2) I shot in Av mode at f/2.0 and ISO 1250. At this ISO, the shots could be a bit noisy at times.
3) I was able to sustain 1/500th-1/800th shutter speeds with this lens and aperture which was generally sufficient to capture the action.
4) I had faster fps speeds by selecting Canon's "One Shot" focus mode, rather than "AI Servo" mode. For the most part, my focusing accuracy was acceptable.
5) I found that, even in a 30 minute game, I would nearly fill my 2G compact flash card. After each game, I would remove about 50-75% of the images from the camera before I downloaded them. This left me with around 100-200 shots that I copied to the PC for further review. Of these, around 10% of those (or less) were what I considered good shots!
6) Keep the ball in the shot. Primarily take shots when the kids are shooting, passing, or struggling over the ball.
7) As far as following the action and knowing when to take a shot, I found that at this age there is much less passing. Kids who get the ball initially are likely to keep it and take their best shot.
8) The youth coaches seem to hang out all over the court and so it is very difficult to avoid having them in the shots. After watching their tendencies about where they like to stand for a few cycles, move to a place where they will not be in the shot.
This one happens to be of my son. There were times I kept a shot just for the look on the kids' faces.
Liked this one due to the look on the face of the kid on the right.
This little guy, while looking a bit awkward during his shots, had amazing accuracy.
I liked this one as sort of a indication of how well the kids had been trained to hold their hands up. The fellow in the blue shirt and red shorts seemed to want to protect the shooter of the opposing team!
Most of all, have fun! C&C welcome!
Regards,
Mike
Well, yesterday marked the end of my son's youth basketball season. I thought I'd share what I learned in the process of taking photos of the games this year. I believe we learn just as much by showing the poor shots as the good ones so I hope this is helpful.
I started off by reading some tutorials here on shooting basketball:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=22950
I only have a three lens system at the moment: 1) a 29-88mm f/3.5, 2) a 45-216mm f/3.5 and 3) a 80mm f/1.8 prime (all the focal lengths have been converted to 35mm equivalent). My camera, a Canon 40D, has reasonable high ISO performance and a very fast 6.5 fps shooting speed. Both of these factors helped to capture the action. Of course, youth basketball has reduced action compared to basketball played by older players.
I used the 29-88mm f/3.5 on my initial attempts but was only able to keep the shutter speeds in the 1/100th of a second range. This made the ball, shoes and hands blurry and induced panning.
I used Canon's "servo focus" mode to continuously track the focus, but I occasionally found that the camera would focus on the wrong player. This mode also had a "jerkyness" to it as the focus would hunt a lot while I was shooting.
I also used my 28-135mm (45-216mm in 35mm equivalent) lens. I found that the sharp backgrounds could be distracting, though, and I needed a wider aperture to blur them.
I ended up using my 50mm (80mm in 35mm equivalent) f/1.8 lens shot at f/2.0 and ISO 1000-1250 for most shots. Even then, the backgrounds were sometimes distracting as there were plenty of little kids and coaches "just hanging around".
No harm, no foul?
In summary:
1) I settled in on the 50mm (80mm in 35mm equivalent) f/1.8 prime lens. This gave me excellent sharpness and nice bokeh, through there were times I could have used a wider angle or the background was still too distracting.
2) I shot in Av mode at f/2.0 and ISO 1250. At this ISO, the shots could be a bit noisy at times.
3) I was able to sustain 1/500th-1/800th shutter speeds with this lens and aperture which was generally sufficient to capture the action.
4) I had faster fps speeds by selecting Canon's "One Shot" focus mode, rather than "AI Servo" mode. For the most part, my focusing accuracy was acceptable.
5) I found that, even in a 30 minute game, I would nearly fill my 2G compact flash card. After each game, I would remove about 50-75% of the images from the camera before I downloaded them. This left me with around 100-200 shots that I copied to the PC for further review. Of these, around 10% of those (or less) were what I considered good shots!
6) Keep the ball in the shot. Primarily take shots when the kids are shooting, passing, or struggling over the ball.
7) As far as following the action and knowing when to take a shot, I found that at this age there is much less passing. Kids who get the ball initially are likely to keep it and take their best shot.
8) The youth coaches seem to hang out all over the court and so it is very difficult to avoid having them in the shots. After watching their tendencies about where they like to stand for a few cycles, move to a place where they will not be in the shot.
This one happens to be of my son. There were times I kept a shot just for the look on the kids' faces.
Liked this one due to the look on the face of the kid on the right.
This little guy, while looking a bit awkward during his shots, had amazing accuracy.
I liked this one as sort of a indication of how well the kids had been trained to hold their hands up. The fellow in the blue shirt and red shorts seemed to want to protect the shooter of the opposing team!
Most of all, have fun! C&C welcome!
Regards,
Mike
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Comments
I enjoyed your post very much. I, too, have gone through the trials and tribulations of shooting dslr basketball for the first time this winter with a 40D. My arsenal of lenses includes the 17-85 mm f/4-5.6 kit lens (aperture not wide enough for good results), 70-200mm f/2.8 L (produced some great images, but needs very-well lit gyms in order to keep the shutter speed high enough, so results are inconsistent), 50mm f/1.4 (tack sharp images, easy to get a high shutter speed, but leaves me wanting a longer focal length for better bokeh and isolating subjects), and the 85mm f/1.8 (the one that ended up as my favorite indoor basketball lens). The 85mm was plenty wide, and the aperture sweetspot seemed to be f/2.0, along with a shutter speed of 1/500, ISO 1600. It also enabled me to shoot a little bit tighter than the 50mm.
Now that basketball is winding down, is baseball in your son's future?
Betsy
jonh68: Thanks for noticing that the shots were underexposed. I think that, at times, the sunlight shining in from the windows in the gym would fool the metering system.
Betsy: That 85mm sounds like an excellent lens. I was wondering about getting the 70-200 f/2.8L but it sounds like it would still require more light. No baseball for my son, but soccer starts in a couple of weeks:D It will be nice to try some outdoor shooting for a change!
Regards,
Mike
Mike,
Like you this winter I spent in a gym shootign youth basketball as my step-son learned the game. Like you I had similar problem, poor lighting and for me not a great kit. Keep up the good work, the expressions make the shots worth it
You will enjoy soccer
PhotoJ
www.ukvphotos.com
Jason
Soccer? My hope is that the 70-200mm will be my "go-to" lens for soccer!!!
Betsy - my advice is to rent a Canon teleconverter if you plan on shooting soccer with the 70-200. With the exception of the very little age groups, most soccer fields are pretty big - you need the teleconverter to fill the frame with the players. Trust me - you'll be glad you did. I have the Nikon 70-200 2.8 and the TC provided me with extra reach to get those goalie saves and mid-field header shots.
My local pro camera shot rents equipement, and has a weekend special - the whole weekend for a one-day rate. A TC is $5/day, so I get to use a TC for the whole weekend for just $5. See if pro camera shops in your area have similar specials - worth looking into, don't you think?
www.rfcphotography.com
Which have you used, the 1.4x or 2x teleconverter?
Not so fast on the 85 over the 50 -- it depends on where you are shooting from of course, but if you are behind the baseline under the hoop, the 50 is good out to half court (with cropping) and great from he top of the key in; I think the 85 might be too long for action right under the hoop. I have both and don't expect to use the 85 much for hoop at all; in fact will probably get rid of it.
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The Nikons have a 1.4, 1.7 and 2.0, and I think Canon has 1.4 and 2.0. Don't get the 2.0 - there's too much image quality degradation for my taste when you're trying to double the focal length of a zoom lens.
I used the 1.7x last weekend for soccer and I'll use it again this weekend. Here's a sample of some of the shots I got:
The focal length on this shot was 260mm, so I wouldn't have gotten this close without the teleconverter.
www.rfcphotography.com
I'm going to respectfully disagree. After about 15 feet results from the 50 degrade very rapidly. The 85 is barely good to halfcourt. I agree 85 is tight for right under the basket but the 50 just doesn't give enough reach for quality shots for much that ISNT right at the basket.
some examples of 85mm 1.8 at work:
On the other hand, when shooting YOUTH basketball, they are only using half the court! (at least in our neighborhood) In addition, there are few restrictions as to how close you can get to the action and so you can literally be right against the court boundary. As I mentioned, there were times I even felt I needed a wider angle. So, as usual, it appears to depend on the circumstances...
Cheers,
Mike
Yep! Great illustrations of my point!
Look at #5, the poor guy is just trying to get out of the way!
I'd guess that it would be easier to fill up the frame with an 85mm when shooting youth basketball. But as Mike said, it depends on the circumstances (and your own opinions of what makes a good shot).
I get to shoot some more basketball soon! Undergrad tournament is starting this weekend!!
Betsy
Mike - really not sure what your argument here is. The 85 barely reaches half court and the 50 doesn't at all.
and in YOUTH basketball the players are smaller so fill up less of the frame. So in YOUTH basketball you would have less of an issue with frame being too cramped.
There are two keys to succes when shooting with the 85:
1. Shoot from the corners rather than right under the basket
2. Shoot vertical rather than horizontal. Horizontal framing almost always leaves uninteresting dead space and you lose more body parts.
Again, it's each person's choice. After having shot with both the 50 and the 85 my experience is the 85 is much faster, sharper and gets you more shots. Yes you lose some tight shots but in the end you end up with higher quality photos. But that's just my personal experience. I'm not downplaying the fact that others may have different experiences.
John,
No worries. To each their own. I could never argue against your great results! Another way to look at it is if you look at my shots, which ones would you say needed the 85?
Where were you taking these shots from, btw? For my latest ones, I was sitting in a chair, on the corner of the court about two feet from the court boundary.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike I shoot from the baseline - position along the baseline is determined by the type of shot I want, where the refs are positioned at and the facility (i.e. if its tight quarters I wont risk injury to a player by being under the basket).
I would say at least 1/2 the shots you posted were soft and could have benefited from the sharpness and focus performance of the 85. They're not bad shots but everything is relative - they could be BETTER with a better lens. It isn't just focal length it's performance. But the crops also hurt detail. And they hurt subject isolation (distracting backgrounds).
Your comment about shooting vertical is particularly apt and interesting -- hoop lends itself really well to portrait mode (not surprising, it's often a vertical game). In field sports (mostly soccer and lax) almost every time I've shot portrait I've ended up cropping back to landscape. Not so in hoop. Thanks, once again, for your valuable insights.
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But I appreciate your comments none the less.:D
My indoor gym pictures (mostly girls volleyball) turn out with a terrible orange tint. What's the best way to fix this? I'm using the Canon 40D with the 70 - 200mm f2.8 lens.
btw...I'm brand new to this forum and new to photography.
Codogg ><>
Cody ><>
www.finishlinefotos.com
The best approach is to prevent it in the first place. Set a custom white balance in your camera. The camera manual will instruct you how to set it. I recommend purchasing an actual white card from B&H. They have one for like $8. There are other ludicrously more expensive ones but the $8 one works fine. And in my experience it gives me better results than using other 'white' objects (paper, coffee filter, uniform, etc...)
In a very rare case, the lighting is so spread apart and the lights cycle in such a fashion that you dont get overlapping fields of light and since lights actually cycle you get different color temperatures. I've only worked in one gym out of about 16 that actually had this problem though. Other gyms may have poor lighting but the lighting is a fairly constant color temp. You'll know it immediately if you set a custom WB and take a several shot burst. If the problem is there every shot will have a different color cast to it.
Looking forward to seeing some of your pics, Betsy -- good luck this weekend!
Mike
Thank you.
codogg ><>
Cody ><>
www.finishlinefotos.com
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