WIDE ANGLE vs. ZOOM

starky987 · March 5, 2008

I enjoy taking photos of landscapes and nature. I originally wanted to purchase a wide angle lens for taking these type of photos b/c I liked to capture a lot in my photos. I've since gotten photoshop and have learned that stitching multiple photos together is pretty easy. This allows me to create wider shots while using my normal everyday lens. I'm a college student so I don't have a huge budget which makes this decision even more difficult b/c once I buy one of these 2 lenses I won't be able to purchase the other one for some time. My current lens of choice is my 28-135 and my camera is a canon xti 400d. I'm looking for opinions and suggestions as to what lens I should look into getting. THanks

Tommyboy · March 5, 2008

One of the most primo w/a zooms out there is the Canon 10-22 (16-35 equivalent). I have one and will say that its excellent rep is deserved.

Other manufacturers make similar focal length zooms that will operate on your camera. The Canon is somewhere south of $700, not cheap, but worth it if you can scratch the funds together.

They show up used on our Flea Market fairly regularly.

Moogle Pepper · March 5, 2008

Yeah check out the flea market here, you can find some super deals here!

The 17-40 L might be worth picking up. It is wide enough with some zoom at a decent price.

starky987 · March 5, 2008

I've never owned an L, is that worth the price? What makes them better than the other models. Thanks

ziggy53 · March 5, 2008

starky987 wrote:

I've never owned an L, is that worth the price? What makes them better than the other models. Thanks

Typical of Canon "L" lenses are superior optics with more exotic components. More durable construction and faster autofocus. They also tend to hold value better than lower tier products including third party offerings.

starky987 · March 5, 2008

I've got $700 to spend, would prefer closer to the $500 range but can go as high as 7. Recommendations still welcome. THansk

ziggy53 · March 5, 2008

Starky,

Since you only have the Canon EF 28-135mm, f/3.5-5.6 IS USM I suggest you could purchase one of the super zoom lenses like the Canon EF-S 10-22mm, f/3.5-4.5 USM or Sigma 10-20mm, f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM or Tokina 12-24mm, f/4 PRO DX which would give close to continuous coverage and give you a nice vista landscape capability to boot.

Alternately, a more standard/normal zoom like the Tamron SP AF 17-50mm, f/2.8 XR DI-II LD Aspherical (IF) would give a fairly wide angle of view as well as covering the focal lengths most desired for casual photography including events and celebrations. It would also give you faster aperature operation for some more available light photography and better bokeh and DOF control.

I could build an argument for either choice.

starky987 · March 6, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Starky,

Since you only have the Canon EF 28-135mm, f/3.5-5.6 IS USM I suggest you could purchase one of the super zoom lenses like the Canon EF-S 10-22mm, f/3.5-4.5 USM or Sigma 10-20mm, f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM or Tokina 12-24mm, f/4 PRO DX which would give close to continuous coverage and give you a nice vista landscape capability to boot.

Alternately, a more standard/normal zoom like the Tamron SP AF 17-50mm, f/2.8 XR DI-II LD Aspherical (IF) would give a fairly wide angle of view as well as covering the focal lengths most desired for casual photography including events and celebrations. It would also give you faster aperature operation for some more available light photography and better bokeh and DOF control.

I could build an argument for either choice.

Is a 10-22 really considered a super zoom? I was under the impression that a super zoom would be something like a 300mm. I'm new to photography though so I could easily be wrong. THanks

claudermilk · March 6, 2008

I think ziggy meant Ultra Wide Angle (UWA) zoom. The Canon 10-22 and Tokina 12-24 are probably the best two. The Canon is about $600, the Tokina about $450-500. Run a search for several lengthy debates between the two. I prefer and own the Tokina. With one of these UWA zooms (note wide angle and zoom are not mutually exclusive

), you can shoot a grand vista landscape in one frame, however I think stitching will be very difficult if not impossible due to the edge distortions these have. Remember the wide ends are in what used to be exclusively fisheye territory.

For stitching panoramas, you can probably work just fine with the lens you have. I assume in general the 28-135 is working fine for you.

Another option is one of the wide primes like Canon's 14mm, 20mm, 24mm or Sigma's 20mm, 24mm.

ziggy53 · March 6, 2008

starky987 wrote:

Is a 10-22 really considered a super zoom? I was under the impression that a super zoom would be something like a 300mm. I'm new to photography though so I could easily be wrong. THanks

My bad. It is called a "super-wide zoom".

Technically a "super zoom" has at least a 7x zoom ratio to as much as an 11x zoom ratio.

Thanks,

ziggy53 · March 6, 2008

claudermilk wrote:

I think ziggy meant Ultra Wide Angle (UWA) zoom. ...

Another option is one of the wide primes like Canon's 14mm, 20mm, 24mm or Sigma's 20mm, 24mm.

While many would call the lenses i mentioned "Ultra-Wide", I reserve that title for those lenses which produce an angle/field of view (FOV) of around 4x normal/standard for the intended format.

The Sigma 12-24mm, f/4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM, when used on a full-frame camera, definitely meets the criteria as does the AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm, f/2.8G ED, and the Canon EF 16-35mm, f/2.8L USM is very close. Any of these lenses used on a "crop" camera has a FOV closer to what I prefer to call "Super-Wide-Angle" (SWA).

I agree with you that stitching images from either class of these lenses is difficult unless you use a tripod and panoramic head and work with pretty small slices and automated stitdhing software.

The wide-angle primes you mention are indeed high quality. Primes do tend to make composition more challenging unless you have a lot to choose from and with you.

Starky,

When you get a chance, look at what our own Andy Williams and Marc Muench do with Canon tilt-and-shift lenses in panoramics (for a lot more money, of course):

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=62383&highlight=arches+panorama
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=651140&postcount=146

Moogle Pepper · March 6, 2008

I am still not sure what a tilt and shift lens means. What might it be?

ziggy53 · March 6, 2008

Moogle Pepper wrote:

I am still not sure what a tilt and shift lens means. What might it be?

If you look at an older "view" camera, you will find controls that allow the front and back of the camera to rise and drop, shift side-to-side, swing left and right and tilt up and down.

A T/S (or tilt-shift or tilt-and-shift) lens has similar controls to allow correction of some angular distortion and also allow enhanced DOF.

Here is an image (not mine) showing tilt:

http://www.kremlinoptics.com/_upload/mc35mm2.jpg

... and shift:

http://my-photo-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/canon-shift.jpg

... and here are links to some nice examples of t/s in action (none are mine):

http://lh3.google.com/_ZVZ_s4dTjSQ/Rr-boya9TTI/AAAAAAAACPI/bS-x2u9BZgs/s800/Herculaneum+tilt-shift.jpg
http://my-photo-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/fireweed-british-columbia.jpg
http://www.burnblue.com/photos/0306/IMG_2702.jpg

starky987 · March 6, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

If you look at an older "view" camera, you will find controls that allow the front and back of the camera to rise and drop, shift side-to-side, swing left and right and tilt up and down.

A T/S (or tilt-shift or tilt-and-shift) lens has similar controls to allow correction of some angular distortion and also allow enhanced DOF.

Here is an image (not mine) showing tilt:

http://www.kremlinoptics.com/_upload/mc35mm2.jpg

... and shift:

http://my-photo-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/canon-shift.jpg

... and here are links to some nice examples of t/s in action (none are mine):

http://lh3.google.com/_ZVZ_s4dTjSQ/Rr-boya9TTI/AAAAAAAACPI/bS-x2u9BZgs/s800/Herculaneum+tilt-shift.jpg
http://my-photo-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/fireweed-british-columbia.jpg
http://www.burnblue.com/photos/0306/IMG_2702.jpg

I'm still not really sure what these lenses are used for. Is the purpose of the shift lens to just move left/right without having to move the actual camera while on the tripod? Any advice on these types of lenses would be great. Thanks

ziggy53 · March 6, 2008

starky987 wrote:

I'm still not really sure what these lenses are used for. Is the purpose of the shift lens to just move left/right without having to move the actual camera while on the tripod? Any advice on these types of lenses would be great. Thanks

For the purpose of stitched panoramics this kind of lens offers two advantages:

1) Increased DOF using the tilt feature.
2) Two images (potentially more than two) using, for instance a left and a right image, can be created using the shift feature without moving the tripod. This also creates images which don't require attention to the "nodal point" of the lens and are in good register for later stitching.

There are also circumstances where you want less DOF to isolate the subject. Then you would tilt in the opposite direction.

More information here:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/tilt_and_shift_ts-e.html
http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/lenses/0801sb_tilt/

bluemoon · March 7, 2008

Tilt shift is commonly used in architectural photography because it helps fix some of the perspective errors, converging lines and such. Another good use is panoramas, andy has some pictures of those.

WIDE ANGLE vs. ZOOM

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