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Selling images from live concerts of professional musicians?

DonRicklinDonRicklin Registered Users Posts: 5,551 Major grins
edited March 12, 2008 in SmugMug Pro Sales Support
I did a cursory search. Didn't find anything on this topic.

I have a number of images I am thinking of listing for sale. They are of well known musicians (jazz and a bit of folk) where the taking of photos was not prohibited.

Can I now put some of these images up for sale.

A few samples are at my SM Site under People. I would create a new gallery for this. There are musicians like Tito Puente, Renee Marie and Tony Bird, Debra Hensen-Connent and Maynard Furgerson.

Don
Don Ricklin - Gear: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, was Pentax K7
'I was older then, I'm younger than that now' ....
My Blog | Q+ | Moderator, Lightroom Forums | My Amateur Smugmug Stuff | My Blurb book Rust and Whimsy. More Rust , FaceBook .

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    DonRicklinDonRicklin Registered Users Posts: 5,551 Major grins
    edited March 10, 2008
    Is the lack of response an endorsement of what I want to do?

    There was no prohibition on my shooting at any of the venues and they watched me shoot them.

    ne_nau.gifscratch Is this question even in the correct sub-forum?

    Don
    Don Ricklin - Gear: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, was Pentax K7
    'I was older then, I'm younger than that now' ....
    My Blog | Q+ | Moderator, Lightroom Forums | My Amateur Smugmug Stuff | My Blurb book Rust and Whimsy. More Rust , FaceBook     .
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    cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited March 10, 2008
    LRmvcDonR wrote:

    Can I now put some of these images up for sale.


    Don

    Sorry, had trouble finding the question. This sounds like a legal issue, and I am no attorney.

    In my opinion, however, just because you can photograph musicians at a concert does not mean that you can profit from that activity. Also, just because no one stopped you does not grant you permission to profit from another artist likeness.

    Perhaps you should clarify with the musician's agency or event the concert promoter.
    Photos
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    DonRicklinDonRicklin Registered Users Posts: 5,551 Major grins
    edited March 10, 2008
    This is exactly the sort of ideas about this that I wanted to hear mentioned here. Anyone esle have a take on this?

    Don
    Don Ricklin - Gear: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, was Pentax K7
    'I was older then, I'm younger than that now' ....
    My Blog | Q+ | Moderator, Lightroom Forums | My Amateur Smugmug Stuff | My Blurb book Rust and Whimsy. More Rust , FaceBook     .
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    DonRicklinDonRicklin Registered Users Posts: 5,551 Major grins
    edited March 10, 2008
    I should also not that a number of these musicians have passed away. Such as Etta James, Maynard Furgeson, Emil Haddad and other.

    Don
    Don Ricklin - Gear: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, was Pentax K7
    'I was older then, I'm younger than that now' ....
    My Blog | Q+ | Moderator, Lightroom Forums | My Amateur Smugmug Stuff | My Blurb book Rust and Whimsy. More Rust , FaceBook     .
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    claudermilkclaudermilk Registered Users Posts: 2,756 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Yeah, but those sorts of folks usually have some sort of estate run by relatives that still protect their rights as if they were still living. I hesitated to answer as this is a legal question & IANAL. However, my gut feeling is the simple answer is no. While it may have been perfectly ok with them for you to take photos for your own use (these days even that is seemingly highly unusual), selling the photos is probably not. Of course editorial & educational use is a different story. I'd check with an actual lawyer for a real answer.
    Chris
    http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
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    DonRicklinDonRicklin Registered Users Posts: 5,551 Major grins
    edited March 11, 2008
    Well, I think that I wont be selling any, at least on line. I still need to get the gallery set-up and let people look.

    For a peek, WIP, it's at Musicians and Singers.

    More to dig out, label and process/reprocess.

    Thanks for what feedback has been given!

    Don
    Don Ricklin - Gear: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, was Pentax K7
    'I was older then, I'm younger than that now' ....
    My Blog | Q+ | Moderator, Lightroom Forums | My Amateur Smugmug Stuff | My Blurb book Rust and Whimsy. More Rust , FaceBook     .
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    bhambham Registered Users Posts: 1,303 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Well I think you should do more research. Specifically look to a case of Tiger Woods vs a photographer (don't remember exactly who). Tiger tried to say that people who took photos of him golfing couldn't sell them. Well the photographer won. It was more about the fact that the event, even though it sold tickets, was open to the public and thus considered a public event, where no reasonable expectation of privacy and the photographer was selling them to individuals for personal use, display, not for any commercial endorsement.

    This is a similar issue to selling photos of any college or professional athlete at a sporting event. The individual that told me this is an employee with a company that is in a lawsuit with a University over some various licensing issues. He is extremely well versed on the topic and has weekly, if not daily, conversations with the attorneys in the cases and knows the info forward and backward. This guy knows more about this topic than anybody I have ever come across, attorneys included, because artwork of famous athletes, memorable athletic moments, etc is there business and only business. The issues they are dealing with is that the University thinks they have to license everything they do, and they are arguing they don't if they don't put a logo, title (relating to schools, etc) or name the university anywhere on the image or artwork or promotional material. The same issue had been fought and won by an artist in Tennessee in federal court and part of the decision referenced the Tiger Wood case, that I believe went all the way to the Supreme Court.

    If you make it clear that the photos are not to be used in any commercial means and the event you took the photos was open to the public (even if a fee was paid), then from my understanding of the legal presidence you should be able to sell the images. If you can call Getty Images and get a print of an image they shot at anything of the same individual at a public event or in a public place, then how are they different from you. I am pretty sure they don't have a release on file, except of course for commisioned works.
    "A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
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    bhambham Registered Users Posts: 1,303 Major grins
    edited March 12, 2008
    Also on page 6, #89, IMGP3894, is that a young Bill Gates??rolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif
    "A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
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