Canon ST-E2 or Pocket Wizard?

Martyn · March 12, 2008

I haven't had the 580EX II long enough (or the camera) to be fully in to ETTL yet so only having maunal control on the Pocket Wizard would be OK.
I tend to use the 580 flash in manual mode more often then not (sync cable).

Does the distance etc of the Pocket Wizard outway the convenience of having a ST-E2?

Any feedback/comments would be appreciated.

Martyn

gus · March 12, 2008

A quick search reveals similar discussion in here just a few weeks back.

pathfinder · March 12, 2008

Martyn,

Welcome to dgrin.

The discussion of an ST-E2/580ex master versus PocketWizards has been extensive here over the last couple years. We have lots of Stobists, who prefer totally manual flash, and trigger with PWs. IF you can control the flash to subject distance, they work great for this. If you are a working photographer, and can dictate where your subject will stand relative to the flash, PWs rock and are what I prefer to use also.

BUT......if you are shooting candids, as in a family gathering at Christmas, and have NO CONTROL over the flash to subject distance, you will find the ability to shoot in ETTL to be of tremendous value, and for this the ST-E2 really shines. I carry one in my backpack at all times for this reason.

For me it came down, not to either or, but I want and need both! All you need is money of course:D

I have a series of links about this subject here

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=70330&highlight=fill+flash+pathfinder

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=514087&postcount=5

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=76682

Some results with the ST-E2 in these threads

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=67030

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=49999

Shane422 · March 12, 2008

You may also want to know that if you have the St-E2, you
ll be able to add a radiopopper to it soon that will give you eTTL over a radio transmission.
www.radiopopper.com

That said, I use the Elinchrom Skyport triggers ($186 for a transmitter and reciever set), which are half the cost of PWs, and lack only a bit of the range that PWs have. I was able to use mine at a distance of about 400ft though. Here is my review of them.

gryphonslair99 · March 12, 2008

Shane makes a good point about the radiopopper in theory. I say theory because I have been reading about them for months, and according to their site the started production a few days ago, but I have yet to see one or use it. Call me a doubting Thomas, but it is something that I would want to try firsthand before committing to them. Time will tell.

If you choose to go ahead and purchase something now then one thing to consider is how serious/often do you believe you will be using them. Several people I know have the Skyports and like them. They are cheaper than Pocket Wizards and seem to be very reliable.

Pocket Wizards are pretty much the industry standard at this point. Sekonic has several meters that have wireless pocketwizard transmitters providing for easy wireless metering. Several lighting manufactures now offer their strobes with built in Pocket Wizard receivers built in making studio work easier. I think the choice comes down to a balance of cost and expected need.

Pindy · March 12, 2008

I ended up buying an ST-E2 for a start. It's great, when you are able to trigger it. It works better than "line of sight" but it's not RF, so beware. Still, i bought it knowing that it would make an ideal RadioPopper trigger.

pathfinder · March 12, 2008

Pindy,

None of the currently available triggers is ideal. They are either expensive or less reliable, or do not offer ETTL control.... SO, is a 10 lb sledge hammer better than a tack hammer? Depends entirely on what you need to hammer, does it not? How critical is ETTL? For studio work it is absolutely unnecessary. For candids or kids moving about, it can be a great deal of help.

The Radio Poppers look very interesting offering reliable radio transmission with ETTL, but I need to shoot pictures now, not sometime:D

I did not mention the Sekonic 358 flash meter that offers a built in module to trigger PW receivers. Very nice to use. Set up your studio flashes, pop them with the Sekonic meter, get your flash reading without going back to your camera position, stick the exposure into your camera and go to work shooting.

Still, I carry a 580ex and an ST-E2 also. Like Pindy said, an ST-E2 won't work much past 25 feet, but indoors I rarely need more than that. Out doors I can usually get it to work when needed.

Martyn · March 12, 2008

Thanks for the replies.

Pathfinder, I spent most of last night trawling through older threads and consistantly came across good replies from yourself, so thank you.

I had dismissed the radiopoppers simply because they need to be stuck on top of a flash and I don't want a flash on the camera. I didn't realize they worked with the ST-E2 as well.

I've used manual flash for many years, so much so, that I instinctively knew what camera settings to use and got fairly decent and consistant results in most situations. My old flash dictates the camera settings not the other way round. Unfortunatley the same rules don't seem to work with the 580EX II so I am going through a new learning curve with it. Also, I haven't figured out how much light is actually coming out of it yet!

My photography has changed greatly due to digital (Canon 40D) and I am taking a lot more candids than I ever did before (previously manual film camera, no auto focus etc - nobody wanted to wait while I set it up) and the ST-E2 with radiopoppers may be the way to go. From what I have read this should give me the best of best worlds. I haven't used ETTL that much yet but I have been pretty impressed so far. My last try at auto-flash was a while ago and I never got the hang of it.

Shane422, I didn't realize the Skyport triggers could be used on non-Skyport strobes. I read a review yesterday that gave me the distinct impression it was a closed propriorty system. These are the ones with USB connectors etc. arn't they?.

Gryphonslair99 & Pindy, if I go for the St-E2 and radiopoppers the St-E2 will be first and the radiopoppers will be added later. Initially I envisage having the 580EX II controlled wirelessly and if needed I can have my old flash on a sync cable. I do plan on getting another 580 but that will be in the future and I am sure there will plenty of feedback about the radiopoppers by then. My only concern is if the radiopoppers turn out not to live up to their hype and I end up having to invest in a different system like the pocket wizards after all. This may be good for my equipment bag but not for my wallet.

Shane422 · March 13, 2008

Martyn wrote:

Shane422, I didn't realize the Skyport triggers could be used on non-Skyport strobes. I read a review yesterday that gave me the distinct impression it was a closed propriorty system. These are the ones with USB connectors etc. arn't they?.

The Skyport system I bought is the universal set. They do have another version that is specifically for Elinchrom lights that allows control of the power output. I think it also has the USB dongle for PC control as well. I have heard that they will soon have a universal version that has the ability to fire the camera as well.

I originally thought the Radiopoppers were vaprware as well, but they are looking more legit everyday. Regardless, the ST-E2 wouldn't be a bad buy. Radiopoppers would only be a possible future enhancement to that purchase.

gryphonslair99 · March 13, 2008

Martyn wrote:

Thanks for the replies.
Gryphonslair99 & Pindy, if I go for the St-E2 and radiopoppers the St-E2 will be first and the radiopoppers will be added later. Initially I envisage having the 580EX II controlled wirelessly and if needed I can have my old flash on a sync cable. I do plan on getting another 580 but that will be in the future and I am sure there will plenty of feedback about the radiopoppers by then. My only concern is if the radiopoppers turn out not to live up to their hype and I end up having to invest in a different system like the pocket wizards after all. This may be good for my equipment bag but not for my wallet.

The St-E2 is a bit touch and go. It needs line of site and bright sunlight makes is harder to use, at least these are the complaints that I get from photographes I know that have used it.

Personally, the only time I care about ettl is when I am using just one flash unit, usually on a bracket which is not often. I am most often using multiple light sources, be it portable flash units or strobes. For this I am always metering my light, not trying to rely on the camera.

Martyn · March 13, 2008

Shane422 wrote:

The Skyport system I bought is the universal set. They do have another version that is specifically for Elinchrom lights that allows control of the power output. I think it also has the USB dongle for PC control as well. I have heard that they will soon have a universal version that has the ability to fire the camera as well.

I've now spent more time looking at the Skyport system. For me and how I would use them they seem as good as the Pocket Wizards and a lot cheaper.
You can download manuals and brouchers from their web site.

Martyn · March 13, 2008

After more reading, I think I will go with the ST-E2. Pathfinder's pictures posted at www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=49999 are similar to how I shoot at home (bounce from either card or ceiling, or both) and I am pretty sure now that the majority of my flash photography will benefit from the ETTL system. At present the outdoor range of the ST-E2 is not a concern as I am used to working within the confines of a 10' sync cable. It may be an issue later when I start to play with the freedom a wireless system offers but that's the reason for adding the radio poppers later.

gryphonslair99 wrote:

Personally, the only time I care about ettl is when I am using just one flash unit, usually on a bracket which is not often.

My most used method is a single flash off camera but somewhere close by, usual held by my wife.

Martyn · March 14, 2008

Bought an St-E2 last night.

pathfinder · March 15, 2008

Show us some of your new work with flash

Martyn · March 15, 2008

Here are a few I did this morning. The people are just a very small selection from my wife's very large extended family.

The flash (580EX II) was mounted on a speaker in front of the subjects;
image 1 flash to camera left,
image 2 and 3 flash to camera right.

Image 1 and 2 had a bounce card on the flash and you can see the shadows in the photos due to this. Image 3 had the bounce card removed and I faced the flash to the back wall and bounced it off the wall and ceiling (no shadows).

It was really easy to set up, I just turned on the flash and stood it in place. No worrying about f-stops.

All images straight from the camera. Shot in manual mode and flash in ETTL II mode.

Flash position: facing the subject

pathfinder · March 18, 2008

Looks like a pretty good beginning.

Bouncing light off of walls to create large soft window light is a pretty neat trick, isn't it?

Pretty nice light for a single speedlite.

Manfr3d · March 22, 2008

Why dont you buy a pair of radio poppers P1? They work
wirelessly (like the PW) WITH E-TTL (like the ST-E2):

http://www.radiopopper.com/

gryphonslair99 · March 23, 2008

Manfr3d wrote:

Why dont you buy a pair of radio poppers P1? They work
wirelessly (like the PW) WITH E-TTL (like the ST-E2):

http://www.radiopopper.com/

And where can one purchase the radio poppers???? That was part of the sceptecisim in my earlier post. They sound good in theory, but they don't have them on the shelves yet.

Manfr3d · March 23, 2008

gryphonslair99 wrote:

And where can one purchase the radio poppers???? That was part of the sceptecisim in my earlier post. They sound good in theory, but they don't have them on the shelves yet.

They are available for preorder and ready to ship, read their page.
There are also a couple of reviews out there. Google is your friend

James S · March 23, 2008

Well now that I have a 580EX and two 430EX flashes I am considering a ST-E2. Maybe I will check into these poppers.

rwells · March 23, 2008

Manfr3d wrote:

Why dont you buy a pair of radio poppers P1? They work
wirelessly (like the PW) WITH E-TTL (like the ST-E2):

http://www.radiopopper.com/

They are NOT stand alone units. You still need a master unit like a 580EX, 580EXII. or an ST-E2. They piggyback on them.

gryphonslair99 · March 23, 2008

Manfr3d wrote:

They are available for preorder and ready to ship, read their page.
There are also a couple of reviews out there. Google is your friend

I am fully aware of what the site says. While Google is my friend, hands on experinece is the real teacher. When they are on the shelves, I have the oppertunity to handle and test them for myself then I'm interested. Until then they are a great idea....in theory.

Manfr3d · March 26, 2008

Radio Popper review:
http://www.flashflavor.com/2008/03/22/277/radiopopper-testing.html

What I find really appealing is the wireless high sync speed capabilities.

pathfinder · March 28, 2008

Interesting review, but I'll bet the ST-E2 would have triggered those flashes in Barista's restaurant without any RadioPopper needed.

Indoors, in small venues, I very rarely ever fail to trigger with just an ST-E2

The RadioPoppers certainly win the distance award out of doors

Martyn · March 29, 2008

Is there any way the ST-E2 and the Radio Popers can interfere with each other at short distances?

Canon ST-E2 or Pocket Wizard?

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