Novice Corner - Post Processing Feedback

Diff · April 12, 2008

Request: This is my 1st effort using CS3 on an image going from “as shot” to a near finished product. Wanting post-processing feedback.

http://diffphotos.smugmug.com/photos/278169755_YiioT-Ti.jpg
http://diffphotos.smugmug.com/photos/278170932_xEiYu-Ti.jpg

Image: This is actually a bronze statue in a small downtown in Washington State.

Goal – Wanted to brighten the overall image, bring detail out in shadows, & make the colors pop. Also, I wanted to focus attention on the front shoe.

What I Did

1) Curves – Set white & black pt using Curves. Set a pt to bring out the detail in the shadow area of the back shoe, just forward of the heel. Not sure if this is necessary since I used the next Curve application?

2) Curves (RGB) - First tried “Auto,” then the “Lighter” preset which I used, but with a minor change.

3) Hue/Saturation – Increased saturation only +40 to make the colors pop.

4) Layer – Set to “Soft Light,” opacity 50%. Darken the back shoe so the eye would be pulled more to the (brighter) front shoe.

5) Sharpen USM - Amt 85% R2.7 T4 Used these setting because it was a close-up with some fine detail. Based ONLY on what was recommended for a facial close-up.

Question: Is it important to provide a small image of the Curves window(s) when posting an image for feedback? If so, how is this done?

~ Thanks ~

Diff · April 12, 2008

Dang! Let me try this to have the images appear...

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http://diffphotos.smugmug.com/photos/278170932_xEiYu-Ti.jpg[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Diff · April 12, 2008

Okay, one last time. Yes! Thank you for your patience!!

[IMGl]http://diffphotos.smugmug.com/photos/278169755_YiioT-M.jpg[/IMGl] [IMGr]http://diffphotos.smugmug.com/photos/278170932_xEiYu-M.jpg[/IMGr]

Vanquiz · April 12, 2008

Diff wrote:

????

Help (-:

EDIT:

, Looks like we posted this on almost the same time ...

Here's how to attach the image, click "Share" and choose the bigger format (M or L)

Diff · April 12, 2008

Okay. From "Share" I thought the only option for posting was the one list as "forums & blogs."

Should this whole post be deleted and started over?

Diff · April 12, 2008

> Question: Is it important to provide a small image of the > Curves window(s) when posting an image for feedback?

I figured this out. Print screen btn, paste into CS3, & crop.

pathfinder · April 12, 2008

Diff wrote:

> Question: Is it important to provide a small image of the > Curves window(s) when posting an image for feedback?

I figured this out. Print screen btn, paste into CS3, & crop.

Only if you want to ask a specific question about the specific curves utilized.

Diff · April 12, 2008

>> Only if you want to ask a specific question about the specific curves utilized.

I was trying to determine if it would be helpful to others in their feedback.

pathfinder · April 12, 2008

If you think the curve is important and relevant, then post a small image at the normal screen resolution 72 ppi.

Like this?

jjbong · April 12, 2008

For what it's worth, here's my take on it based on what you were trying to accomplish:

I say "for what it's worth", because it depends on whether you like it better. I did what you said you wanted to do, using different methods (more in tune with my own workflow and my personal tastes in the results).

This kind of picture is hard to critique from a post-processing point of view, which is why you haven't gotten many responses. For lack of a better term, it's very artistic, which means the results are more subjective than for many other photos.

In general terms, you're trying to do two things in post-processing. One is to correct various problems. These include casts of various sorts, some global, and some variable. They can include other things as well, like objects you want to remove. In my photos, I spend a lot of time, relatively, getting the colors right (or at least not obviously wrong). In this photo, there's nothing obviously wrong, color wise or anything-else wise. The nature of the shot precludes this.

So it comes down to what you're trying to bring out in the photo, and how best to do that. Maybe this particular shot is better suited for the Whipping Post than here. Don't know.

pathfinder · April 12, 2008

Good answer, John B.

Diff · April 13, 2008

Whipping post? Nah.

Need to take in everything I can from this forum & from the experienced PS folks. So, everything said is valuable.

>> In my photos, I spend a lot of time, relatively, getting the colors right (or at least not obviously wrong).

Please say more about this or, can you provide an example?

~ Best ~

jjbong · April 13, 2008

Diff wrote:

>> In my photos, I spend a lot of time, relatively, getting the colors right (or at least not obviously wrong).

Please say more about this or, can you provide an example?

~ Best ~

The first thing I do is to eliminate incorrect colors (I learned this from Dan Margulis). For example, neutrals should be neutral. In RGB, this means R=G=B, for whites, greys, and blacks. Personally, I find it useful to set the second Info Palate display to Lab, where neutral is A=B=0.

In faces, you should see at least as much yellow as magenta (B greater than or equal to A). There are many threads on this particular subject, which you should be able to find. Some controversy, but mainly lots of detail, depending on ethnicity and other factors. But almost always, you should never see yellow less than magenta (although I have a grandson who is the exception to this rule). In greenery, you should see roughly twice as much yellow as green (B about 2x A, which should be negative), with some exceptions. Then you look in other areas for colors that can't be right. For example, you don't see many blues in nature. I find that darker spots often give good clues to overall casts (if they're not neutral, they shouldn't be blue, and depending on the scene, they maybe shouldn't be either green or red).

Here's an example of a kid's soccer game:

Point 1 is slightly blue, point 2 (in the shadow of the uniform) is more blue. Point 3 (the child's face) is much less yellow than magenta, again indicating a blue cast. Oddly, point 4 (the grass) is more or less what you would expect. I did shoot a grey card before I took these, and I calibrated the color temperature to that of the grey card shot and still had these casts. By the way, it happens often that the cast in the shadows is different from the cast in the highlights, especially under artificial lighting. Even here you see it, which is natural lighting.

Focusing on the child's face and the uniform, I corrected the casts with RGB curves, did some other stuff for contrast and color contrast, and ended up with this:

I'm not completely happy with it. The child and the uniform are good, but the grass is too yellow. But for the purposes of the shot (and the amount of time I'm willing to invest in this), it's sufficient and much better than the original.

Another example is a shot my wife took in Vietnam. She asked me to make it more colorful (meaning that it wasn't as colorful as she remembered):

This looked plenty colorful to me, but I quiclky discovered a blue and green cast to it (looking at the wall above the shot), the green undoubtedly due to the flourescent lighting. With RGB curves (and nothing else), I produced this:

Not perfect, but you can see the difference. And just eliminating the cast made it close to what she remembered.

I hope I've ansered your question about getting the colors right. There are many deep dives possible from here, and it depends on where you want to go.

Diff · April 14, 2008

Thanks for the reply & the images. Here's some clarification questions.

>> For example, neutrals should be neutral. In RGB, this means R=G=B, for whites, greys, and blacks. Personally, I find it useful to set the second Info Palate display to Lab, where neutral is A=B=0.

1) Neutrals - I dont' totally get how you achieve this. I know the Info palette gives me a read out of every pix under the cursor (Set sample size 3x3). Mine is set, left RGB, the right LAB. Note: I don't totally understand LAB (The range/reading is %, 0 -100?).

In an image, do I target a near black, white, & midtone, note the RGB values, bring the 2 other Info palette #s using Curves individual color channels.

Ok, I know a lttile about this, but don't have any applied knowledge.

2) Relating Colors

You said...

>> In faces, you should see at least as much yellow as magenta (B greater than or equal to A). There are many threads on this particular subject.

>> But almost always, you should never see yellow less than magenta.

This is a weakness, understand the relationship between colors.

Regarding the threads on this subject, I'm not sure what to search for.

Ok, this is enough for know.

Thanks!

jjbong · April 14, 2008

Diff wrote:

Thanks for the reply & the images. Here's some clarification questions.

I was going to point you at Stephen Marsh's web site, but I see from another thread that he's beaten me to it.

Novice Corner - Post Processing Feedback

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