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Digitally Indecisive
I would like to upgrade to a new camera. I guess after a couple years, it's time. Canon and Nikon are choices just like Chevy, Ford or Dodge. Some say Nikon is better than Canon, others say Canon is better.
I heard on Monday that Canon and Nikon never originally started off as camera companies; that Nikon started off making microscopes, and Canon started off making copiers/printers/scanners, (or something like that) and so they both used their skills from the lenses they were making for those things, and then later ventured into the camera industry, and that Pentax is probably the only company that started off making cameras; but they don't advertize much if any, but I'm not familiar with Pentax.
It doesn't really matter to me who is the best. I just would like to have whichever of the two that make better pictures... the Nikon D80 or the Canon EOS 40D. Some say just `cos the 40D cost $500 more than the D80, that the D80 still takes better pictures.
I'm selling my camera, using some saved cash, and so far I have my mind on the 40D, but I'm not sure. I just want pictures with great clarity, sharpness, true color and vividness.
What do you all think, like or have?
Thanks!:):
I heard on Monday that Canon and Nikon never originally started off as camera companies; that Nikon started off making microscopes, and Canon started off making copiers/printers/scanners, (or something like that) and so they both used their skills from the lenses they were making for those things, and then later ventured into the camera industry, and that Pentax is probably the only company that started off making cameras; but they don't advertize much if any, but I'm not familiar with Pentax.
It doesn't really matter to me who is the best. I just would like to have whichever of the two that make better pictures... the Nikon D80 or the Canon EOS 40D. Some say just `cos the 40D cost $500 more than the D80, that the D80 still takes better pictures.
I'm selling my camera, using some saved cash, and so far I have my mind on the 40D, but I'm not sure. I just want pictures with great clarity, sharpness, true color and vividness.
What do you all think, like or have?
Thanks!:):
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The differences in IQ (image quality) are getting so marginal that you're better off looking at lens selection, flash systems, and ergonomics.
The D80 is lower priced and spec'd to the 40D (which I own) so it's not a very apples to apples comparison, actually, until you get to the pro level cameras, Canon and Nikon don't really make models that precisely compete, the closest match right now might be D200/40D, or 400D/D60 (???), but even then, not really...
Canon has had, for a long time, the reputation of lower noise, which may or may not make much difference to the way you shoot. Nikon has about pulled even here, but there are some differences in the RAW files that can be an issue for specialized applications, astrophotographers pretty near exclusively use canon (I gather a lot of people feel the D3 is now in the lead, but that's neither here nor there for most of us mortals...)
When it comes down to it though, I'd say walk into a store, pick each one up, play with them. I really like the feel of the 40D, but you may prefer D80. To be fair though, I do think the 40D is a superior camera, as it should be since its priced that way too.
If you're still stuck after playing with both, what I'd look for is those few things only Nikon does, ie 200-400f4, or that only canon does, eg MP-E 65mm macro. If you're looking for the ultimate in telephoto, with the exception of the afore-mentioned 200-400 canon is on top, in my opinion (massive selection of high quality), while Nikon's 14-24 seems to put it well ahead in the wide angle department. Canon's pretty awesome for wide apertures (f1.2, f1.4). I like the fact that Canon has a reasonably future-proof electonic lens mount, while Nikon is only now phasing out the in-camera focus motor, but on the other hand, if you have some moderately old Nikkors around, you'd feel the exact opposite.
I was forced to go with Canon DSLR as I got an old EOS film camera and couple of lens earlier. It was cheaper for me to move to their DSLR.
Just before I bought the Rebel, I did quite a bit of study between the C and N company. I found the C company actually did some smart move to prepare for the new digital world well ahead of it arrived.
It changed the lens mount early enough to cater for more demanding autofocus and other future lens features, developed its own COMS sensor from the very beginning (they make it in-house, not get it from some one). It means they have full control of the technology for future development. During that time, the CCD was the mainstream of sensor technology althought many engineers aware the negative side of the CCD sensor.
C company also changed the lens outlook - I love the white lens. Many companies are following them now.
I have to do it to justify why i have to stay with the same brand and continue buying their toys. Luckily, they did the right thing again, they made the first afforded full frame DSLR for me and I have no excuse to walk away from them. I just spent 1.2K last night to order a lens and a flash before they increase the price tomorrow.
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
If you are familiar enough with your shooting needs, look more at who offers a better selection of lenses to suit them. Then go to a store & pick up each of the bodies and play with them a while--each company has different ergonomics and philosopies on how to control the camera (Canon is more menu-based, while Nikon is more hard button & dial based, don't know about Pentax). Nikon is considered to have a superior flash system, so if that's something very important Nikon still has a definite edge.
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I was at the LCS, (local camera store) and all they had was a Nikon D80, D300, and the Canon Rebel XTi. The D300is a $1000 more than the D80, so I better pass on it for now. When the day comes that I have that kind'a spare cash, the D300's will have a new rival. Maybe they'll call it the D400.
The LCS had a shipment of the 40D's and even the XSi's coming in. I was thinking about getting the XSi since it has 12.2 megapixels, which is better for blowing up pictures, but I heard it was quite of bit of noise, thus making the image quality lesser than some other models. Also, I don't like how small an XSi is. I don't care how heavy a camera is, I just rather have big ones, therefore there are more controls and better handling.
Anyway, the LCS is suppose to have the 40D in by Friday, but... I have to work, and I'm off tomorrow. So, I'll have to go somewhere else farther away tomorrow just to test-drive one. Here's a link to a picture taken by someone with his/her Canon. It is so clear, sharp and vivid, that it just amazes me… http://www.flickr.com/photos/croberts/with/2105282167 (The 3rd picture at the very top... the Autumn tree).
BestBuy sells the 40D (body and 18-135mm lens) for $1499. I might check it out if they would let me put a card into it and see how it performs. Places like that prefer you buy it first, then if you don't like it after 2 weeks, you can take it back, but then they wanna know why, what happened, bluh, bluh, bluh. That's too much trouble.
If you can't wait a few months, I'd say that the 40D is more or less the best bang-for-buck camera on the market, especially if you're going to be doing fast-action and low light. The 40D autofocus and frame rate will rock the D80. Having said that, the D80 has a few nifty features that the 40D doesn't have, such as wireless commanding capabilities for multiple, separate flash groups, and is overall a smaller / lighter camera for those who need to pack light and hike with everything on their back or something...
If you CAN wait a few months, and I hate to bring this factor into the already annoying process- Nikon will replace the D80 with the D90 in a few months, and it should rock. If it gets a D300 sensor, the 3 inch high-res LCD, the 51-point AF, and maybe 5-6 frames per second, I'd say it'll be a far better camera than the 40D, and possibly for less.
Sorry for throwing that wrench in the works! Just trying to look out for ya in the long run... Personally I think that, for someone who is NOT interrested in upgrading to a semi-pro or pro body some day, the bodies currently offered by Pentax and Olympus make more sense sometimes; at least they're cooler than the 450D or D60, I think...
=Matt=
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There are a lot of DSLRs right now that are in this fuzzy 10-12 megapixel range, it's only a few % of difference to the size of the image, and most of the time you'll be limited by the lens, not the camera, so I wouldn't worry too much about this. Back in the days of 2 and 3 megapixels, it was probably legitimately one of the biggest concerns, but now I believe it's 98% marketing. Some people definitely do need massive resolution, but I'm happy to confess I'm not one of them.
Matt's advice is good, just be careful about waiting for the best ever, since you'll be waiting forever. I could still be waiting for an as yet non-existent 5d mark II, or be the happy new owner of a 40d (which I am
With regards to Pentax, Olympus, they're both old and respected names in cameras, and both systems have their ups and downs. I'm terribly attracted to the K20D, though mostly just because the 40D isn't weatherproof. The downside is that for some specific applications their systems don't offer as much choice as Canon/Nikon
good luck!
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Canon 30D, some lenses and stuff... I think im tired or something, i have a hard time concentrating.. hey look, a birdie!:clap
The thing is, maybe I should go along with my childhood intuition,`cos maybe a Canon will be the best for me—I dunno. lol...I was talking with this man at the LCS, and he said he use to have Canon, but when Canon did something that caused everything to be incompatible, (and some other issues) he went to Nikon and he said he never went back.
Then I hear pretty much the same things about former Nikon users—that they went to Canon and never went back to Nikon. My Nikon D50 is okay, but I could use more controls, features and megapixels. The D50 is out. I can't find much neat things for it, such as a vertical battery powergrip, at least not that are any good.
I like some of the pictures I took with it. Some people had nothing to say, while others thought they were great. My best one is of the sun setting behind a mountain. My pastor uses it for his services at church every week. I'm yet to have one printed out for my room on an 8x10 or larger Matte paper.
Anyway, I'm gonna continue testing the two cameras (40D and D80) before I buy either one. The more reviews I read online, and the more I hold either one at BestBuy, the more I want the 40D.
As for the D90, reviews say it will be here no sooner than June, and as late as November, and be priced between the 40D and the D300. Since I need to take pictures this month at someone else's church, and I prefer it not be with my D50, I won't be able to wait, much less come up with another $300 – $800 more. I think the way the 40D works, along with 10.1 megs, I should be happy for a couple years.:):
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I have shot with many brands of cameras....the only one I have not owned is a cannon and Olympus..for 35mm...I have owned Miranda, Minolta, Nikon and Fuji....that being said and looking at the top section of this post of yours, it sounds like if you had a few more dollars you'd own a Nikon D300....now that being said why not opt for a used D200 (there have been some floating on the flea market here over the past few weeks) and buy some good glass.....right now your D50 uses SD memory cards I think and so does the D80 ( I think) but the D300 uses CF cards (my preference in cards because of their larger physical size.....easier to hold on to in the winter time).....and the D200 uses CF cards also.....b8ut if I was looking to finally step up to a D300 or its predecessor next year...I personally would opt for a used D200.....
For a good selection of shots with the D300 just tale a look at any of HARRY B's bird shots......those things are so sharp they will cut you.....and for a look at what Olympus can do go to the Journeys thread and look at SWintonPhoto's photos of around Manhattan Ks.....very sharp indeed also........
One other thing you really need to do is look at your shooting style and let us in on what you shoot so we can truly give better answers to your dilemma............
I worked in car showroom for a year and used to do freelance used car sales fo many years. I saw a lot of people came to the showroom or called me for test drive. I can tell 99.9% of time those people do not know what they were looking for.
Their need is just a car to bring them from point A to point B within a reasonable time and gas consumption. But they open up the bonet inspect everything, unfortunately many of them didnot even know what is the sparkplug or battery. During test drive, they speed and hard brake and doing all sort of funny things. At the end, they just paid me and drove off with out asking where the spare tire was.
My point is that, most people just want a camera (to me is a toy) to get nice picture with in their target budget and looks good. I believe most of us, (except the hard core experts) does not able to see too much difference of the pixals, noise and IQ at the beginning. Most people learn about the camea from different source, the friend, the blog and some "commericals'.
Most people likes to find the easy way just to join the mainstream brands as it usually quite safe. The other take the extreme way to try something different. But both way can deliver the "good enough" IQ photos. Join the mainstream brand will have better support and long term upgrade path, the small companies offer special feature but risk of less support.
Between brand C and Brand N, the latter seems more aggressive to regain the leadership position recently. I saw a promotion of basic DSLR camera kit just about US500. That is good buy. My question is why they need to drop the price so much, is there anything wrong?
flickr.com/photos/photoskipper/
I like taking pictures of just about everything everyone in here likes... nature, portaits, weddings, astronomy, people, wildlife, etc. Some have told me to just get a standard digital camera, such as a pocket kind, that they can do just as good as anything else, but I'm not into those kind'a cameras. I have one by Kodak, but it's film and it's ancient.
My camera history:
N50 and 35-80 kit lens in 94
D50 and 18-55 kit lens in 06
D1h in January 08
N90S in February 08
Lenses I currently have:
Primes
20mm f2.8, 35mm f2.0 AIS, 50mm f1.8D AF Nikkor, 85mm f1.8 D, 100mm Manual Focus Series E, 105mm f2.8 macro, 135mm f3.5, 180mm f2.8 ED IF, Vivitar 28mm 2.8, Vivitar 200 f3.5
Zooms
18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 ED AF-S DX, 18-70mm DX, Sigma 28-70mm, 35-80mm 1:4 5.6D, 35-135mm 3.5-4.5, 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED, Promaster 70-300mm 1:4 - 5.6 LD Tele-Macro,
The reasons I chose Nikon? It feels good in my hands, menus make sense without too much manual reading, lenses are just one mount type, (see http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/compatibility.html for the list)
Ultimately, what camera system is right for you, is the one that you will use well. If it doesn't fit your hands, or the menus aren't user friendly, or the lenses just don't seem to focus right, you won't get the shots. Go to a local camera store, not the big box kind, but the locally owned shop and show them what you shoot, and what you want to achieve, and what your budget is. Then start playing with the cameras in that range, if you can, bring cards so that you can take the shots home and look at them. I plan on keeping my gear a really long time, even the D50
Nowadays digital cameras have better image quality than
any camera 10 years ago did. You cannot go wrong with
any of the top brands. What concerns me is that you seem
to believe that the best gear = best pictures. That is a very
common myth that keeps spreading like a disease over the
internet.
You should decide which brand you buy based on which
accessories and leses you intend to buy. And once you
bought yourself into a system you will quickly learn that
it's only your photographic skills that determines how
good your pictures are.
just my 2 cents
A anecdote that fits here:
The fameous photographer Helmut Newton goes to a restaurant.
Before the meal the chef compliments him and says "I like
your images you must have a really good camera".
After he finished the meal Newton compliments
the chef and says "The food was eqcuisite,
you must have realy good pots"
― Edward Weston
All the more expensive cameras give me is more latitude on how to shoot, but when you know and stay within limitations of your camera. You can still create great work.
Canon vs. Nikon is like the Jews vs Arabs, Not winnable, they all must coexist.
Now after getting that out of the way, I'm a canon user, first with the D30, D60, 20D and now 40D. (the only one I sold was the D30)
We all focus on the cameras too much, comparing bugger dot to bugger dot, and miss the larger picture. What do the images look like, how does this do in low light situations, how does this feel in MY hands. How much noise does it make.
Personally, I feel the optics are far more important than the body. What made the Leica M3, M2 & M4 the camera of choice for Time, Look, Life and National Geographic magazine photographers from the 50s, 60s and 70s, certainly not the 1/50 flash sync. It was the Leitz optics and optical system i.e. range finder, razor sharp images by candle light. And that is where Canon really shines...
The Canon Pro "L" series, the red stripe around the end ones, is simply the best glass out there. You should spend at least 60% of your camera budget on your primary lens. Don't buy a package, buy the body and lens separately. In the long run you will be the happiest that way.
I wound up with 16-35 f2.8 series II and 70-200 f2.8 IS with 24-70 f2.8 next on the buy list.
Like I said it's the optics that count...