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Dispelling some myths about international shipping

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    HallidayHalliday Registered Users Posts: 149 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    As someone who was burned by buying an item of ebay from a Canadian seller, let me tell you why I don't deal with buying anything used from a non-commercial seller from America's top hat.

    I bought a photo cd off ebay and the seller was in Canada. I sent him the $ via Paypal, he never shipped. After trying to go thru both ebay and Paypal I was told "out of luck." I have no recourse now. It was not a lot of $ but knowing I have little to no protection from international sellers, I won't mess with it again.

    Buying from an actual Canadian store is another matter :)

    I'd sell to anyone anywhere, as long as it's all paid before shipping.
    www.lanceshuey.com

    I won't sell out even if the whole world think's I'm crazy.
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    DoctorIt wrote:
    Eeehhhhh WRONG.

    20080502-pc81sqbgkn3fb4wxg1jc8dmfwr.jpg

    USPS letters, 90cents, NO customs form. We get about 1 a week.

    Sorry, not "chopping" either, just can't stand by while blatently incorrect information is being shared.
    Good example. And why Dgrin is so cool, the voice of reason! clap.gif
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    DavidoffDavidoff Registered Users Posts: 409 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    DoctorIt and Gus, this conversation interests me quite a bit, maybe you can shed some light on this issues. I live in portugal. Here, everything photo related is stupidly expensive. So, obviously I'd think that buying from the U.S would be cheaper, but when I tried it, I got burned. Just so you understand the seriousness of the prices here, an example:
    Nikon 70-200VR, on B&H it's a bit under 1600$. On probably the "main" photography store here, it's 1980€ !!!! Here is the link. http://www.colorfoto.pt/index.php?catalogo=1&pesquisa=1&txtpesquisa=70-200&marca=&categorias=&produto_id=1665&indice=4&oldlimit=10

    It wouldn't be that big of a difference, but retailers here seem to forget that the € is more expensive than the $, so that lens here is about 3,070$ !!!!! ( source: www.xe.com ). Buying from B&H it's just over 1000€. There are even worst cases.

    So, as you see, I was tempted and bought the strobist kit from mpex, because I had good feedback and they had everything in a convenient package, that would be a lot harder to find here and a lot more expensive, not to mention that some things don't even exist ( Vivitar 285hv, for example ).

    Now, get this, I paid about 30-40 $ shipping, then I paid tax when it got here, about 60€, and some customs taxes because I was importing goods from outside the european union, so, I paid about 100€ extra ( that's around 150$ ) . Even when buying from the U.S the "authorities" find a way to rob us.

    Rant time over.

    What I'd like you guys to tell me, is wether I should try and buy stuff from people in the U.S ( not stores though, second hand ) and asking them to describe the package as a gift. I read that that reduced taxes significantly, but it may not be that way anymore. Could you guys help me ? As you can see, here, price is an enormous issue.
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    gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    Davidoff wrote:
    What I'd like you guys to tell me, is wether I should try and buy stuff from people in the U.S ( not stores though, second hand ) and asking them to describe the package as a gift. I read that that reduced taxes significantly, but it may not be that way anymore. Could you guys help me ? As you can see, here, price is an enormous issue.

    Yes we face a 10% tax on anything new imported here over $1000 AUD so buying second hand is a huge bonus...if....you can get someone to reply to you. Ive had so many people from the US simply refuse to post out of the US however they have expected me to post to them...fair isnt it ?

    Our dollar is slowing creeping up towards the USD & we are almost there...we have an incredibly strong mining industry here (our entire continent is either coal/iron ore/bauxite or yellow cake) & its been spoken that our dollar AUD will overtake the USD in the not so distant future.

    To answer your question...people may package the goods as a gift but that will be half the problem compared to just getting someone to acknowledge you exist. My advise would be to speak to our man on this forum ..Remford. Im sure he could help you out.
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    DavidoffDavidoff Registered Users Posts: 409 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    gus wrote:
    Yes we face a 10% tax on anything new imported here over $1000 AUD so buying second hand is a huge bonus...if....you can get someone to reply to you. Ive had so many people from the US simply refuse to post out of the US however they have expected me to post to them...fair isnt it ?

    Our dollar is slowing creeping up towards the USD & we are almost there...we have an incredibly strong mining industry here (our entire continent is either coal/iron ore/bauxite or yellow cake) & its been spoken that our dollar AUD will overtake the USD in the not so distant future.

    To answer your question...people may package the goods as a gift but that will be half the problem compared to just getting someone to acknowledge you exist. My advise would be to speak to our man on this forum ..Remford. Im sure he could help you out.


    Thanks Gus. Who is Remford though ? Looks like he only sells Canon gear.
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    DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited June 18, 2008
    Davidoff wrote:
    What I'd like you guys to tell me, is wether I should try and buy stuff from people in the U.S ( not stores though, second hand ) and asking them to describe the package as a gift.
    I don't know the ins and outs of this, but as far as I can tell (from my experience on both sides of the Pacific Ocean), if you are receiving a package from a private individual, it can't be dutied. How could they possibly discern the difference between a package from my mom or from Andy if I bought a lens from him? Unfair and unrealistic. You don't even pay sales tax in the US on used items, why should you pay them across borders?


    On another point, I'm glad people stop in to voice their concerns, but I would like to just say that getting "burned" has absolutely no correlation with borders. You can just as easily get burned in an internet transaction by someone 100 miles away.

    In other words, thanks for the rants about getting burned by Canadian sellers, but they don't do much to help in making this an international community that helps its members around the world.
    :D

    You should always do your homework and follow good practice whether you are dealing locally or a world away. All the same policies apply: good communication, everything agreed upon ahead of time, verification, etc...
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]


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    JetJet Registered Users Posts: 233 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    DoctorIt wrote:
    I don't know the ins and outs of this, but as far as I can tell (from my experience on both sides of the Pacific Ocean), if you are receiving a package from a private individual, it can't be dutied. How could they possibly discern the difference between a package from my mom or from Andy if I bought a lens from him? Unfair and unrealistic. You don't even pay sales tax in the US on used items, why should you pay them across borders?


    On another point, I'm glad people stop in to voice their concerns, but I would like to just say that getting "burned" has absolutely no correlation with borders. You can just as easily get burned in an internet transaction by someone 100 miles away.

    In other words, thanks for the rants about getting burned by Canadian sellers, but they don't do much to help in making this an international community that helps its members around the world.
    :D

    You should always do your homework and follow good practice whether you are dealing locally or a world away. All the same policies apply: good communication, everything agreed upon ahead of time, verification, etc...

    I agree - you can be burnt by nearly anyone anywhere if you don't do your homework and play safe.

    I have bought nearly all my gear internationally from private sellers who don't mind sending overseas - all successful so far :D

    It is a pain when people don't ship overseas, is filling in a form so hard? headscratch.gif
    Jethro :D
    My Blog
    Jethro Kingston Photography
    Use this coupon code to get $5 off when joining smugmug: eO3NU7AM85scE
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    Davidoff wrote:

    What I'd like you guys to tell me, is wether I should try and buy stuff from people in the U.S ( not stores though, second hand ) and asking them to describe the package as a gift. I read that that reduced taxes significantly, but it may not be that way anymore. Could you guys help me ? As you can see, here, price is an enormous issue.

    David.....each country in the EU has different regulations on gifting amounts......I have friends in the Czech Republic and I can send $200 or $250 per year to my friend without THEM being taxed for it....however if I go over that say and send a second gift of $50, I was told they will get taxed for the whole $300 not the amount over the gift law ($50)....You should check your countries regs to see what is what..............
    I know that coming to the USA I have purchased several Kiev Cameras from a Gentleman IN Kiev Ukraine and was never taxed by the USA govt........So what happens in one country will not be the norm in another.

    HTH
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    Halliday wrote:
    As someone who was burned by buying an item of ebay from a Canadian seller, let me tell you why I don't deal with buying anything used from a non-commercial seller from America's top hat.

    I bought a photo cd off ebay and the seller was in Canada. I sent him the $ via Paypal, he never shipped. After trying to go thru both ebay and Paypal I was told "out of luck." I have no recourse now. It was not a lot of $ but knowing I have little to no protection from international sellers, I won't mess with it again.

    Buying from an actual Canadian store is another matter :)

    I'd sell to anyone anywhere, as long as it's all paid before shipping.

    I have never had paypal tell me too bad we won't do anything.....that is why both Ebay and Paypal have their buyer protection in place......what they can't seem to control is people selling an item for $11.50 and charging $15.00 for USPS priority mail when the item weighs less than 1lb and the flat rate charge by USPS IS only $9.98.........sellers off the is bull crap dialouge of gas is $4/gal and it takes me 1 hr in traffic to get to the Post Office....when IN reality all of the packaging supplies can be delivered to your door and picked up by the Postperson........damn I even get priority tape delivered when I remember to order it...............and I am one of those sellers that charges exactly what the post is....now if I am out of protective supplies (styro-peanuts or bubble wrap) and I am forced to buy it then yes I charge for what I use to pack your shipment.....but if I buy 10lbs of peanuts and use 1/2 pound I do not charge for the 10 I purchased only for what I use...................
    On Ebay I highly recommend that you converse with everyone you are interested in purchaseing from to get all questions answered ahead of the purchase.
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    bauermanbauerman Registered Users Posts: 452 Major grins
    edited June 18, 2008
    I think that it is also important to state that if someone decides to only deal with people in North America that they not be questioned personally as to their motives and/or why they will or will not ship outside of the continent.

    That can be taken wrong and actually make the person less likely to ship elsewhere in the future. They may just get the mindset that, "well if they are going to give me grief about my sale, I will surely only ship to the US in the future!" Just thought that I would mention that. This is a profitable discussion and I learned a few things by reading through it, but when it comes down to brass tacks....you have to respect a sellers decision even if you do not agree with it.
    Perhaps the greatest social service that can be rendered by anybody to this country and to mankind is to bring up a family. - George Bernard Shaw
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    gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    bauerman wrote:
    ...you have to respect a sellers decision even if you do not agree with it.
    Sure...but dont ANYONE expect me to respect someone that wont ship outside the US to you but has the audacity to ask that you ship to them in US.
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    DavidoffDavidoff Registered Users Posts: 409 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    DoctorIt wrote:
    I don't know the ins and outs of this, but as far as I can tell (from my experience on both sides of the Pacific Ocean), if you are receiving a package from a private individual, it can't be dutied. How could they possibly discern the difference between a package from my mom or from Andy if I bought a lens from him? Unfair and unrealistic. You don't even pay sales tax in the US on used items, why should you pay them across borders?


    On another point, I'm glad people stop in to voice their concerns, but I would like to just say that getting "burned" has absolutely no correlation with borders. You can just as easily get burned in an internet transaction by someone 100 miles away.

    In other words, thanks for the rants about getting burned by Canadian sellers, but they don't do much to help in making this an international community that helps its members around the world.
    :D

    You should always do your homework and follow good practice whether you are dealing locally or a world away. All the same policies apply: good communication, everything agreed upon ahead of time, verification, etc...

    I didn't mean "burned" that way. I was not burned by the seller, mpex was great, I was burned by the local laws. I don't know how they distinguish it from a gift, but what is stopping a used lens inside the original box with warranty papers from being taxed as new ?
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    Moogle PepperMoogle Pepper Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    My brother sells and ships internationally often, and I would too if I had goods that someone would want, I would sell and ship internationally as well. I have bought a lens from DoctorIT a while ago. It was a fast and easy transaction. [He lives in Oz.] mwink.gif
    I didn't mean "burned" that way. I was not burned by the seller, mpex was great, I was burned by the local laws. I don't know how they distinguish it from a gift, but what is stopping a used lens inside the original box with warranty papers from being taxed as new ?

    From my understanding, if it is being sold from an individual not from a store, there will most likely not be tax.


    You just need to communicate thoroughly with each other before buying and selling.
    Food & Culture.
    www.tednghiem.com
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    bauermanbauerman Registered Users Posts: 452 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    gus wrote:
    Sure...but dont ANYONE expect me to respect someone that wont ship outside the US to you but has the audacity to ask that you ship to them in US.

    You obviously have a 'principles' thing with not shipping to the US if we here will not reciprocate the favor. I can understand that and that is your choice.

    But it boils down to economics and numbers. Use Australia as an example......a country of 20 million people and only a small percentage of that 20 million being interested in purchasing photographic equipment. If a person living in Australia limits his sales to his homeland - he is really narrowing things down a bit from a potential buyer perspective. Now on the other hand, the US has over 300 million people.....limiting your sales to 'US only' does not have the same consequences from a potential buyer pool perspective.

    What does all this mean? To me it means that if you live in Australia or a similar smaller country from a population perspective there is possibly big motivation to sell outside your shores.......really opens up the potential buyers. But, if you live in the US that same level of 'urgency' to sell something outside the US may not be there because you have plenty of potential buyers right here.
    Perhaps the greatest social service that can be rendered by anybody to this country and to mankind is to bring up a family. - George Bernard Shaw
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    Davidoff wrote:
    I didn't mean "burned" that way. I was not burned by the seller, mpex was great, I was burned by the local laws. I don't know how they distinguish it from a gift, but what is stopping a used lens inside the original box with warranty papers from being taxed as new ?
    What I do with anything being sent outside of the USA, whether sold or an actual gift is to write in the value comments area of the green sheet.....OF NO COMMERCIAL VALUE .....learned to do this when working for the NCR factory that used to be here in Wichita.....that alert the customs guys it is private or not to be resold ...... we used it for repair parts going directly to overseas end product customers........I always insure my shiipments also, so I do have to declare a value of what I am shipping, but the NCV statement I believe has kept friends and clients from having to pay any duties on what i have sent them.................
    another thing to do is see if a seller will just place a note inside the shipment that this is all used equiptment and have them to send the reciepts and all warranty cards and such in a separate envelope as a letter..... I have done this and it has been done by sellers in the Ukraine for me and I have never had to pay any duty tax (import tax) on any item I bought over seas or even from Canada....I have purchased Lowe Pro products new from Canada and never paid any duty.......

    To just go out on a limb here's a bit of my own humble opinon on this matter......any person refusing to sell or ship overseas is just plain lazy, if filling out a simple 1 tiny piece of paper (approx 3" sq) is tht hard for you, then just how lazy are you with your own job......I was nervous my first time but damn it is only a few lines of info about 30 secs worth of time ..... there are only a few countries that the US govt warns people to not do business with, they are the same countries that 99.9% of all internet scams come out of......if the country is listed in paypals list of countries they are available in then I see no reason to do business with people of that country, and I am one of the few sellers athat only charges the customer exactly what the post office charges me...... I was doing business with people in Kiev Ukraine before the Soviet break up ........ so I guess I have been lucky..........I won't do business even with a US CITIZEN that wants only MO of any type or WU or MG's only......if you do not do paypal even if I offer to pay an extra 3-6% then I will cancel the deal or just not bid if it is an auction........I always ask ahead of a purchase or bid.......
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    DavidoffDavidoff Registered Users Posts: 409 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    Art Scott wrote:
    What I do with anything being sent outside of the USA, whether sold or an actual gift is to write in the value comments area of the green sheet.....OF NO COMMERCIAL VALUE .....learned to do this when working for the NCR factory that used to be here in Wichita.....that alert the customs guys it is private or not to be resold ...... we used it for repair parts going directly to overseas end product customers........I always insure my shiipments also, so I do have to declare a value of what I am shipping, but the NCV statement I believe has kept friends and clients from having to pay any duties on what i have sent them.................
    another thing to do is see if a seller will just place a note inside the shipment that this is all used equiptment and have them to send the reciepts and all warranty cards and such in a separate envelope as a letter..... I have done this and it has been done by sellers in the Ukraine for me and I have never had to pay any duty tax (import tax) on any item I bought over seas or even from Canada....I have purchased Lowe Pro products new from Canada and never paid any duty.......

    So Scott, you make them know that it's of no commercial value *and* you mention what it's worth for insurance purposes ? And they don't tax it in the recieving country's customs ?
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 19, 2008
    Davidoff wrote:
    So Scott, you make them know that it's of no commercial value *and* you mention what it's worth for insurance purposes ? And they don't tax it in the recieving country's customs ?

    As I stated earleir in this thread.....I have only had one incident that cost my friend and her family money for duty tax and taht was when I sent her a second gift that went the CZ's gift amount by $50 and they wound up paying taxes for $300 instead of just the $50 that I was over..........
    Ihave never had to pay any taxes on my imports nor has anyone I have shipped to had to pay any taxes...................so far.................

    I would always suggest to never have it addressed to a business name always an individual's name........I think it might be a problem shipping to a business as a birthday or christmas or even a NAME DAY gift.............

    I have been called on the carpet by a division of the US govt for sending money to europe to the same people 3 or 4 times a year even tho it was relatively small amounts....less than $500 each time......so yes I have been scrutinized by the central scrutinizer....................:D

    As I said in that same earlier post......YOU need to get to know your countries import/export laws.....there are some countries (the Czech Republic is one) that if an item can be purchased in that country then it gets taxed at a very high rate ( the list price for the taxing country).....so when I send gifts, I try to make sure they are pretty much one of a kind items that will not be made or sold in the Cz........

    But for used equipment I do think most countries will for go any taxation..............

    David you may have been taxed on your MPIX purchase due to fact that there is a lab in Portugal that can provide the same services, even if 10X higher.............just my guess

    btw i go by Art....using last name is FAR TOO FORMAL for me......I don't even like Mr. or Sir rolleyes1.gif ....... do not worry I am not offendedthumb.gif ........on here I look at most everyone as a friend and with friends no formality is necessary........:D thumb.gif
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    DavidoffDavidoff Registered Users Posts: 409 Major grins
    edited June 20, 2008
    Art Scott wrote:
    David you may have been taxed on your MPIX purchase due to fact that there is a lab in Portugal that can provide the same services, even if 10X higher.............just my guess

    btw i go by Art....using last name is FAR TOO FORMAL for me......I don't even like Mr. or Sir rolleyes1.gif ....... do not worry I am not offendedthumb.gif ........on here I look at most everyone as a friend and with friends no formality is necessary........:D thumb.gif


    Absolutely, I'm glad you feel that way, sorry I called you by your second name :D

    It was mpex, the midwest exchange store, not the printing lab I think you're referring to. I think it was taxed because it clearly stated what it was and that it was an item bought from a store, not only a store but a store outside the European Union, something that would not happen if it was from a private individual, I think.
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    gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited June 22, 2008
    bauerman wrote:
    You obviously have a 'principles' thing with not shipping to the US if we here will not reciprocate the favor. I can understand that and that is your choice.
    Yeah i mean its this easy.

    Example ; I (in 0z) buy from you in the US & then you want to buy from me in 0z & i plain refuse without explanation. There is such a thing i believe as pro-quo. That is simply bloody rude & narrow minded.
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 22, 2008
    gus wrote:
    Yeah i mean its this easy.

    Example ; I (in 0z) buy from you in the US & then you want to buy from me in 0z & i plain refuse without explanation. There is such a thing i believe as pro-quo. That is simply bloody rude & narrow minded.

    quid - pro - quo...........me thinks....but haven't slept in over 36hrs agin so not sure mate...................
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    bauermanbauerman Registered Users Posts: 452 Major grins
    edited June 22, 2008
    Art Scott wrote:
    quid - pro - quo...........me thinks....but haven't slept in over 36hrs agin so not sure mate...................

    You are correct Art - now go to bed!
    Perhaps the greatest social service that can be rendered by anybody to this country and to mankind is to bring up a family. - George Bernard Shaw
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    DVDMDVDM Registered Users Posts: 61 Big grins
    edited June 24, 2008
    My brother sells and ships internationally often, and I would too if I had goods that someone would want, I would sell and ship internationally as well. I have bought a lens from DoctorIT a while ago. It was a fast and easy transaction. [He lives in Oz.] mwink.gif



    From my understanding, if it is being sold from an individual not from a store, there will most likely not be tax.


    You just need to communicate thoroughly with each other before buying and selling.


    Hello. I live in Moscow, Russia and buy stuff from e-bay once in a week =) So in Russia there's law: if the parcel cost is higher than 400$, you must pay 30% tax from sum exceeds 400$. Example - lens cost 500$, so I must pay 33$ tax.
    The best way to ship to Russia is Priority Airmail or EMS. Not UPS, DHL or FedEx, cause they pay much higher tax.

    And please ! Don't be afraid of selling to Russia. It's very sad when I see "US or Canada only". It's often a most interesting lot =)

    Thank you and good luck all dgrinners ! =)

    Dimitri
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