I'm going to Europe do I NEED more toys?

jpl · July 28, 2008

My wife and I are going on a vacation to London and Paris in a few weeks. This is our first trip to Europe. We are talking about having kids sooner than later so we both kinda see this as the last (and only!) really big vacation we'll be taking for potentially a very long time.

I'm pretty green when it comes to photography. I've only been shooting from about 3 months now. I haven't really found my niche yet but I love taking pictures. I'm very much a spam photographer. I just keep pressing the button and I get lucky sometimes!

Taking pictures isn't the main goal of this trip but it is #2 behind having fun. My wife is a pretty good sport when it comes to letting me get the gear I want and having fun with me on photowalks. And then she is probably even more interested than I am in getting good pictures to remember this trip. Also recently came into $500 unexpectedly, so that money is burning a hole in my pocket! With that as the backdrop, I want y'all to help me decide what photography gear I need to take with me.

So here is what I currently have:
Nikon D40 body
18-50mm (non VR) lens
55-200mm (non VR) lens
Small Nikon shoulder bag
gorillapod SLR
Manfroto 190XPROB tripod
Manfroto 322RC2 tripod head
5 2GB cards (so 10GB total)
SB600 flash
various cleaning supplies

So now the questions are what do I need to take with me and what do I need to buy?

First and foremost, I need a bigger and better camera bag. I want a backpack bag and I'll probably go with a Lowpro. I don't think I need much advice here. That is the easy part.. already made that decision.

Second, I'm really debating getting the Nikon 18-200mm VR lens (or maybe the Sigma). I find that whether I have the 18-50 or 55-200 I always wish I had the other lens on. This lens doesn't offer any new focal lengths to what I already have and it isn't faster either. The VR would be nice but the $600 ($400 for Sigma) is tough to swallow for getting something I basically already have in 2 separate lenses. If I don't get it though, I know I'll beat myself up while in Europe for all the great shots I missed because I had the wrong lens on (whether true or not!). Maybe I just need to learn how reposition myself better and how to change my lenses more often in the field. Thoughts?

Third, I shoot alot. Like 1600+ shots in the last four days (about 8 hours of photowalks). So I obviously need more storage. I see 3 options here: 1) get more memory cards 2) get one of those hard drive things (I don't think I'm a big fan of them) 3) get a new laptop. We are kinda in the market for a laptop anyway. If we don't need it in Europe though, we would probably wait until December, maybe even later, to get a new one. How important is having a laptop to photography while on the road? Should I just get a bunch of memory cards or is getting a laptop a better option? If you had to choose between a laptop and the 18-200mm which would you choose?

Finally, I'm not sure what to do with respect to tripods. I love night photography. I love long exposures. I hate traveling with my tripod. I tried it once on a business trip to Las Vegas. I think I'm leaning towards not taking the tripod because as stated before, photography isn't the main goal of this trip and carrying around a tripod would probably be more trouble than it is worth. So I'll probably just bring the gorillapod. Now for it, the 322RC2 head is far to large but I'm very spoiled now by using such a great head. I'm thinking about getting a smaller head for the gorillapod. Maybe something with the RC2 system to match the 322RC2 or maybe something cheaper. What do you guys think?

Is there anything else I need? Let me think... I should get an extra battery.... um..... I can think of a few other things I want/need but don't fit in well with vacation photography (remote flash triggers, reflectors, etc). About the only thing that may apply is I don't have any lens filters like a circular polarizer. Hmmmm... maybe I should get one of those because I expect must of my pictures to be outside in daylight. Anything else? I want to be prepared. I won't say this is a once in a life time opertunity but it is a once in a bunch of years opportunity that I don't want to squander.

and since no dgrin thread is complete without a picture here is one of my favorites from this past weekend:

Art Scott · July 28, 2008

trip to europe...
Firstly...you need more memory cards......I could fill easily 2 2gb cards a day...having loads of fun and shooting discriminately ..... but seriously if your not wanting to carry your tri pod.... then don't...BUUUT....in the end you will wish you did....I go now here with out mine.....I pack a Manfrotto/Bogen 3021 all over the Czech Republic and when I got home I sold it and bought a 4 section Giottos....shorter when attached to my back pack won't bang onto bus and train door ways

:D ..... I used mine extensively then as I do now........and you do need more cards or some sort of photo bank to down load to...even if all you shoot is jpegs.....and on a trip like this ..... it is time to start shooting raw if you haven't done so ...... so far......

Personally from you list I would leave the Gorilla Pod home...... I can lean intop a building, tree, post, statue or another person to get some stability if I am not using my tri pod........learn to love your tripod seriously.....
You do not need to get a laptop to take with you unless you want to spend you vacation processing files.....if not then a nice large photobank (as I mentioned before).....NewEgg has had some really fantastic prices on SD cards (and CF cards also)....I have seen 2gb for like $8 (transcend ).....larger cards at just a good a price also.......

Remember also that D40 does NOT accept all lenses for the nikon mount, so be very wary to make sure any lens you may purcahse will work in all the AUTO modes and not just in manual mode.

Good Luck

cmason · July 28, 2008

Regarding tripod: I too like taking evening shots, but carrying a tripod around REALLY SUCKs. Now, if I am going out specifically for nite shots, it is ok, but otherwise, carrying around a tripod is a pain.

Below are two photos I took while in Paris. I did not take my tripod. Now if I had, I would have had many more options, and much better composition. But I did pretty well without it. The first shot of the Eifel tower is the camera resting on my Lowepro backpack. The second of the Louvre is the camera on a small, pocket tripod, like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/247934-REG/Sunpak_620203_2003_Pocket_Tripod.html

I recommend the mini tripod or even a Joby as an alternative that will do in a pinch. Something to consider

[edit: noticed you mentioned the gorillapod...you are all set, this will be fine]

W.W. Webster · July 28, 2008

Art Scott wrote:

Firstly...you need more memory cards......

I wouldn't leave home on the 'trip of a lifetime' without alternative backup storage, in my case an Epson P5000. Even if you had enough memory cards for your total needs, the piece of mind that having backed up to another device each evening can bring - priceless!

cmason · July 28, 2008

W.W. Webster wrote:

I wouldn't leave home on the 'trip of a lifetime' without alternative backup storage, in my case an Epson P5000. Even if you had enough memory cards for your total needs, the piece of mind that having backed up to another device each evening can bring - priceless!

Good point...or a laptop or one of these:

http://www.hyperdrive.com/HyperDrive-COLORSPACE-O-s/42.htm

gembobs · July 28, 2008

Personally, I would pack the tripod if you have the space - even if you only use it once or twice, you will feel it to have been worthwhile. I have the same tripod but with the 486RC2 ball head which I took to Venice with me last week, only used it three times, but it was worth it. The rest of the time I just balanced my camera on walls / bridge parapets etc. I attached my old camera strap to it as a shoulder strap - works a treat, keeps it close to me and didn't feel overly heavy.

I would recommend to take a circular polarizer, but maybe not bother with any others like ND's / ND grads, unless you want specific shots where they would be used.

One thing you haven't mentioned, which I would recommend if your coming to the UK - get a waterproof cover for your camera and lens - we are forecast thunderstorms by the end of the week! I wouldn't suggest anything fancy - a modified ziplock bag would do.

Get more memory cards - I shot 6Gb in three days in Venice of fairly conservative shooting (how many canal shots does one person need?

), shoot in RAW, so you can attempt to rescue shots with poor exposures etc.

Even though there are tonnes of camera shops in London (Jessops, Jacobs Digital, Camera World etc, plus other electrical goods shops like Currys, Comet, Dixons, PC World etc) you will find them expensive - for example, Jessops have a Sandisk 1Gb SD card (just a plain Sandisk, not Ultra or Extreme) for £14.99, so better to come prepared, rather than have to buy more here!

I am a Canon user, so cannot comment on the lenses.

I hope you both have a fab time over here and in Paris!

Gem

jpl · July 28, 2008

Thanks for the advice. No one has commented on the lens (because you are all probably evil canonites!!) Let me rephrase my question: If you already had 18-50mm and 50-200mm both without VR is a single 18-200mm with VR worth $600 to you?

Moogle Pepper · July 28, 2008

Evil canonites?

That's a good one at this forum!!

Actually Art mentioned something about Lenses, as since you have the D40, he mentions not all lenses are compatible with it. So you need to research well into your lenses.

As such, I am an eveel canonite, I don't have much knowledge of Nikon. Other than I like the D300 and D3, even though I am invested and loving my 30D.

Definitely bring a light and sturdy tripod and alternative storage. You might lose a card and that would be bad.

ziggy53 · July 28, 2008

jpl wrote:

Thanks for the advice. No one has commented on the lens (because you are all probably evil canonites!!) Let me rephrase my question: If you already had 18-50mm and 50-200mm both without VR is a single 18-200mm with VR worth $600 to you?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I just "love" good cameras and great lenses.

The Nikkor 18-200mm, f/3.5-5.6G AF-S ED IF DX VR is one of "those" lenses with some very desirable qualities and conveniences, but some limitations as well.

If you buy the lens that Thom Hogan reviewed, it's well worth the money:

http://www.bythom.com/18200lens.htm

kts · July 28, 2008

For this trip I would invest the $ in the Nikon 18-200. It's a very good all around lens which will save you from missing something because you're busy switching lenses, or even just the hassle of carrying both the 18-55 and the 55-200.

While the 18-200 isn't as good as something like the 17-55 f/2.8 and the 70-200 f/2.8, it's not designed to be. It's designed to be a good not too expensive general purpose carry lens and it does that job great. I took my 18-200 all over Amsterdam wth me a few months ago and I was glad I had it. It got me through 99.5% of what I wanted to take photos of. A year before that I went to Japan and all I had at the time was the 18-55. I got some great shots with it, but not having that 55-200 range kinda stunk at times.

I guess to sum it up, I have a trip to Iceland planned in a few months and I plan to bring the 18-200 and get everything I need and want done with it.

I don't know about the Sigma, but from what I've read the Nikon is better.

Photoskipper · July 29, 2008

I got a 18 day trip in Swiss and Italy last year. Totally 6K 40GB photos (most of them RAW)
Used Epson P2000 HD with screen and built-in card reader to download. 2 X 4GB, 2 X 2 Gb and couple of 1 GB card were not enought for 2 days.
As the trip mainly on the coach and had a full week stay in Rome, I used the aluminum case for all the gears and just the Lowepro waist belt and lens pouch for the accessories and lens when I needed to walk around.
It is not that safe to use backpack in some part of Europe. Also, there were so many photo opportunity, I needed to keep the camera in hand all the time.

jpl · July 29, 2008

Some good advice here. I need to stop whining and just make a decision. I'm the most indecisive person you have (never) met when it comes to spending money. I pine over decisions. I guess that is better than spending my money frivolously.

So far I've decided:
1. No laptop.
2. No hard drive storage thing.
3. Lots more memory (somewhere between 42 and 74GB total)
4. I'm going to bring my tripod

still undecided:
5. WHICH bag
6. Should I get the 18-200mm lens. At the moment I'm leaning towards no, because I think Molsondog is right... I probably won't be using the upper range all that much. I'll flip flop another 20 times before I actually make a a choice.

Decisions... decisions....

nightspidy · July 29, 2008

What to bring...
Here's my 2 cents....

While on my 3 week honeymoon (vegas, arizona, utah & colorado) a few months back, I am so glad I had my laptop with me as I had only brought my 2gb and 8gb, and I shot a few hundred pics a day. Each night I burnt the images on a cd and backed them up on my LaCie external hard drive (you can get one at B&H, light and stores a lot, for a good price). You could just buy more cards, but I would constantly be worried about running out of space and having to delete shots to take others or worse, losing or damaging a card resulting in a loss of my pics. So in short, consider buying the laptop and possibly an external hard drive.

Yes, a new bag is a must, especially if you are going to get the laptop, but it sounds like you already know that

Tripod....I brought mine with me and it did come in handy....all 2 or 3 times I used it! I'm not sure if I'd bring it with me to Europe though....it was a major pain in the butt to haul around on the days I did use it and it does add to the weight of your bag. Also, I would be worried about knocking stuff over or bumping into stuff when going into museums/stores/tight spaces, etc. We had a rental car, so it wasn't so bad, so I'm not sure what your situation will be when you are in Europe.

Circular Polarizer...I really, really wished that I had gotten one of these, so I would reccomend getting one for your lens. Really helps tone down harsh reflections and such.

As for the lens, when I went on my trip I brought quite a few lens' with me (canon): 50mm 1.4, 100mm 2.8 macro, 10-20mm, 24-70mm 2.8,
70-200mm IS 2.8 and 1.4 extender; however, I also had 2 bodies as well, so I was able to easily switch back and forth. I primarily used the 24-70mm and the 50mm - I only used the other lens' a few times. I am heading into St. Petersburg/Moscow/Novgorod next May and since I don't want a heavy bag to lug around on this trip, I'm thinking of just bringing the 50mm, 24-70mm and the 10-20mm since we will mostly be in the city, churches, tight spaces, dark spaces, etc. I guess it really depends on your shooting style & goals, where you are going (museums/dark areas/tight spots/etc) and how much you want to pack around.

You didn't say how much money you have to spend. If you only have the $500-$600, that would not leave you enough money to buy all of the items you need. If the money is not the issue, then I would get the lens along with the other goodies. I would also strongly consider getting a wide angle lens and a fast 1.8 for dark areas like inside of a church or a museum.

Hope this helps

Zeus1 · July 30, 2008

I am from Belgium, and try to make at least one city trip per year to other European countries.

Believe me, You will need the long reach of that 18-200 mm lens! There is just too much happening in the long reach-area of that lens. And in a city it is not always possible to use your legs to alter Your position (heavy trafic, too many pedestrians etc). While in istanbul I even had to use a teleconverter to increase the reach of the 18-200 mm in order to photograph people.
The Tokina 12-24 is helpful in narrow streets, but suffers from chromatic aberration.

I have a tripod and a monopod, but hardly ever use them on vacation. If You plan on doing low light photography, OK, bring them, but in museums and churches You could run into trouble if You want to use them.

lightyear · July 30, 2008

European trip and photography
I lived in Europe and return to various areas often. I do not agree with most of the comments above because, as a tourist often on bus tours of various major tourist destinations, you will often be with a guide walking to various locations, as the guide points out and describes what you are seeing. You will not have the time to set up your tripod, mount your camea and shoot, unless you get off the bus and decide not to be with your guide (and the others).When you are on your own, there is more time to set up and shoot, but on your first trip to Europe you will have so much just to see and look at that photography will be secondary. On later trips, or if you spend much time in a given city, you may have the luxury of shooting with your tripod. I suggest that you get a VR zoom lens that fits your camera and will work with other bodies, so that you can shoot what you see and still participate in your tours. No tripod needed, more versatile. As to ISO, memory: I now shoot at ISO 400 when touring, sacrificing slight noise with BIG enlargements (no noise shown on projected images, or in up to 8x10 prints); more memory is better, but I often delete poor images on the spot if there is time, or at night in the hotel room so as not to have thousands of poor snapshots to go thrugh on return.. If you can get a second VR lens, get a Wide angle for big views of sites you can't get far enough from to show the whole thing (palaces, churches, altars, historic buildings, etc.). Enjoy.
Stan

Photoskipper · July 31, 2008

lightyear wrote:

I lived in Europe and return to various areas often. I do not agree with most of the comments above because, as a tourist often on bus tours of various major tourist destinations, you will often be with a guide walking to various locations, as the guide points out and describes what you are seeing. You will not have the time to set up your tripod, mount your camea and shoot, unless you get off the bus and decide not to be with your guide (and the others).When you are on your own, there is more time to set up and shoot, but on your first trip to Europe you will have so much just to see and look at that photography will be secondary. On later trips, or if you spend much time in a given city, you may have the luxury of shooting with your tripod. I suggest that you get a VR zoom lens that fits your camera and will work with other bodies, so that you can shoot what you see and still participate in your tours. No tripod needed, more versatile. As to ISO, memory: I now shoot at ISO 400 when touring, sacrificing slight noise with BIG enlargements (no noise shown on projected images, or in up to 8x10 prints); more memory is better, but I often delete poor images on the spot if there is time, or at night in the hotel room so as not to have thousands of poor snapshots to go thrugh on return.. If you can get a second VR lens, get a Wide angle for big views of sites you can't get far enough from to show the whole thing (palaces, churches, altars, historic buildings, etc.). Enjoy.
Stan

I agree partially.
Yes, most of the sightseeing spot will have the local guide to walk you and really don't have time to slow down the take proper photos.
But what I did was to follow the guide (usually about 1 hour walking tour) then walk back again to those place I found interest. I can set up the camera, tripod and wait for the right sunlight to come.
The guided tour sometime is too expensive, I have it only one session a day and the rest of the day i am on my own.

jpl · August 1, 2008

I bit the bullet and bought the Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens (Is that not a ridiculously long name!?) and the Lowepro Fastpack 250. I'm get them next week. I'm excited!

ziggy53 · August 1, 2008

jpl wrote:

I bit the bullet and bought the Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens (Is that not a ridiculously long name!?) and the Lowepro Fastpack 250. I'm get them next week. I'm excited!

That's great and I anxiously await some images from your trip using it.

lightyear · August 2, 2008

European trip and photography
Congratulations on your lens selection. I have photo backpacks and over the shoulder bags, and for Europe I prefer the shoulder bag because the backpack makes sittting on the tour bus seat , or on the Paris/London/ Berlin etc. subway seat difficult. I find it hard to access equipment from the backpack unless I take it off, put it down and then get what I need - which is easy in the mountains or woods, but hard for me in the city. Also, in the cities I don't change much and the l8-200 lens handles just abut everything. I use the shoulder bag for strobe, memory cards, lens cleaning stuff, camera manual/guide, spare batteries, lens hood, small tabletop tripod. I sometimes carry a monopod with a quick release in Europe. It sets up in about 10 seconds for longer exposures , and is not in the way. Mine has a belt clip I attached so it dangles from my waist, since it would protrude from my shoulderbag - but would easily fit on side of backpack.Enjoy.
Stan

I'm going to Europe do I NEED more toys?

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