Contest entry question

Eric&Susan · April 8, 2005

We are lucky enough to have a local botanical gardens, Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens, near by. They are currently running a contest for flower shots. They have four different contest through out the year, one for each season and the different flowers that bloom then. Also a special category for:
Landscape views, people enjoying the Gardens, and Kids in the Gardens. I picked up a copy of their official rules and entry form. In the official rules it states:

"Submissions become the property of the Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens and will not be returned. The Gardens may use such photos for advertising, promotion, and/or reproduction for sale, without further compensation. Photo credit will not appear in advertising but will be applied elsewhere, whenever possible. The Gardens license to use submitted photos is nonexclusive; photographers retain the rights to the original negatives or files."

So does that mean that they can take my submissions and use them freely and keep the profit from sales? Does this sound normal? They are a 501 (c)3, non-profit educational corporation so I can understand them not paying me for the rights to my photographs, but them making money off of my work doesn't sound right. Also the photo credit not appearing in advertising kinda bothers me too. Am I just being overly retentive or does this bother others as well? Please give me some feedback on this. Has anyone ever participated in something like this?

Thanks in advance,

Eric

wxwax · April 8, 2005

Don't do it if you think you can make money off of your photography. If you harbor no such aspirations, it really doesn't matter, I guess. Perhaps you could think of it as a donation to the non-profit?

But no pro would dream of giving away shot, for free, with unlimited rights.

Eric&Susan · April 8, 2005

Well since I'm by NO means a pro I'm not doing it just to make money off of the entries. But at the same time if there are possibilities to sell then I would. I would be happy with just the recognition. Possibly generating future sales. As I do have agreements with a few local business' to put up some of my photos starting next month just having my name on the entries could help to generate sales. I just can't seem to get past the idea that they could sell my photos for money in their pocket rather than my pocket. Although the idea of a donation makes it a Little easier to accept.

Eric

luckyrwe · April 8, 2005

Even camera magazines pul the same thing with their contests. They offer a $500 prize, receive hundreds of images and get the rights to them. So for about a buck an image, they are really doing good. It's like buying lottery tickets. Maybe you will win, but most likely you will not. 1 in 500 chance, is that enough to give up rights?

Shay Stephens · April 8, 2005

"Recognition", in the beginning of ones photographic career, sounds very valuable. But upon reflection, it results in very little real value. About the only thing you gain by it is some self esteem and confidence. Otherwise it's pretty much worthless.

But, I can tell you that you gain far more confidence and self esteem when you sell your work for "hard cash". So much more so, that it eclipses what you thought you would gain by giving your work away for the promise of credit printed under the photo or the chance to win a prize.

Early on, I licensed a photo to a book company for use in a college text book, it wasn't much, I think $200, but that was a huge shot in the arm for me. It was real money, I was getting credit printed in the book, and I retained all rights. I negotiated the price, set the terms, and sent them my license contract. They signed it and sent a check.

Fast forward to today. That company just called about a week ago to verify my address because they had another check for me for a second printing of the book (per the agreement in the contract). Had I given them unlimited rights to the photo, they could have made the second printing without me seeing any benefit. But as it is, my work continues to benefit me directly now and will continue in the future.

That one photo has easily earned over a thousand dollars in it's short time on this planet from various sources that are using it. And it's not even one of my best photos.

Moral of the story, don't underestimate the value of your work, and of the rights to that work. If you give those rights away, you are throwing money down the drain with little more than a thank you from those who will gain much more from it.

I recommend any and all photographers spend a little bit of time researching pricing and licensing photography for money. What you learn will open your eyes to the potential, as well as the schemes some use to get you to do work for them for free. If nothing else, get a hold of a book like:
http://www.allworth.com/Catalog/PH223.htm

Eric&Susan wrote:

Well since I'm by NO means a pro I'm not doing it just to make money off of the entries. But at the same time if there are possibilities to sell then I would. I would be happy with just the recognition. Possibly generating future sales. As I do have agreements with a few local business' to put up some of my photos starting next month just having my name on the entries could help to generate sales. I just can't seem to get past the idea that they could sell my photos for money in their pocket rather than my pocket. Although the idea of a donation makes it a Little easier to accept.

Eric

Markjay · April 19, 2005

Awesome advice, Shay.........
You hit the "nail on the head" with your posted reply, Shay.

I have been asked by several people to use my images, for free, as donations, out of the goodness of my heart, for a charitble cause, as just a background on the wall projected for a church who wanted the images FREE also.
Each and every time I graciously told them, sorry but I can not give my work away free, it's how I make my living. I told them I would charge them a reasonable fee.... and they all backed off.

When I first started selling my work to commercial establishments, I kind lady contacted me to use one of my images to simply embellish her front page of her website. I thought to myself, how much could I ask for that and, asked only $15 to use a small 500x 300 size version of my image.

Soon after that, I got an inquiry from someone who wanted 250 300 x 200 image size / versions of my abstratcs and I took in $500 for that sale. That gentlemen has now come back for seconds and thirds :-)

It's all about determining what the established average value is of your work.
If however you establish yourself as a source of FREEBEES........
word will get around and soon you will be a great source of image buyers pouncing on you for free images..... but they'll put your credit underneath the image. Sorry credits don't pay my bills :-)

For me, in that second instance where I sold my images as tiny 300x 200 images, I really didn't care that much... it was $500 easy (now times three!).

However, had a large corporation contacted me (knowing their pockets are deeper) I probably would have charged them nearly double! :-)

Did I make sense in all that? Sorry, I'm pressed for time tonight......
gotta run!

Good luck all!

Markjay

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