In-Camera Metering Help?

KED · September 25, 2008

I shoot some sports at a field that is characterized by simultaneous bright sunlight and deep shadows. Here's an example:

The majority of my shots are from too far away for fill flash to do any good, although I may try that as well. I have always used evaluative metering, but for these conditions, would partial metering (center weighted around the focal point) be a better alternative, or would that just result in the sunlit areas being totally blown?

And secondarily if I may, would trying to use fill flash (I'd have to leave the flash on constantly) just throw partial metering off, if PM is indeed the way to go?

Thanks!

KED · September 26, 2008

Hey -- I know there are abundant resources out there regarding flash -- 80% of them are outdated or irrelevant, and I have searched the remaining 20% as thoroughly as I always do before posting here, which is pretty thoroughly. I try never to waste Dgrinners' time but I could really use some help here.

ziggy53 · September 26, 2008

Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution to your problems. Generally when you have bright sun and shadow zones and you have action in the boundary area, with some players in shade and some in direct sunlight, you should expose for the sunny area and then deal with the shadow areas in post. Remember that blown highlights are lost forever where shadow areas are somewhat recoverable.

If you have a "really" powerful flash you can try to equalize some of the closer players if they are in shade but it's not a panacea.

In your example photograph a flash would have illuminated both the player in yellow, which would have been beneficial if the flash had enough power, but it would also have added illumination to the player behind in blue, who is already over-exposed.

BTW, I believe that the new Adobe PS CS4 has some new features which might help the situation.

Masks Panel
Localized correction in RAW.
Dodge, Burn and Sponge tools that preserve color and tone details.

KED · September 27, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution to your problems. Generally when you have bright sun and shadow zones and you have action in the boundary area, with some players in shade and some in direct sunlight, you should expose for the sunny area and then deal with the shadow areas in post. Remember that blown highlights are lost forever where shadow areas are somewhat recoverable.

If you have a "really" powerful flash you can try to equalize some of the closer players if they are in shade but it's not a panacea.

In your example photograph a flash would have illuminated both the player in yellow, which would have been beneficial if the flash had enough power, but it would also have added illumination to the player behind in blue, who is already over-exposed.

BTW, I believe that the new Adobe PS CS4 has some new features which might help the situation.

Masks Panel
Localized correction in RAW.
Dodge, Burn and Sponge tools that preserve color and tone details.

Thanks Ziggy. I'm looking forward to CS4, despite having a long way to go in CS3. I could probably also do 80% of this in LR2; just wanted to be sure that I wasn't overlooking a better way of doing things at the moment of capture.

jfriend · September 28, 2008

You're probably not going to like this solution, but I think it's the best one there is.

Don't position yourself where you are going to get mixed light shots. There's almost always lots of other field that doesn't have this problem. At your very best possible exposure, you will get a shot in these conditions that needs lots of post processing to be acceptable. It will never be one of your best shots. I don't know why it took me so long to learn this, but lighting is still the #1 thing that matters. Lenses, digital, pixels, fps, none of that changes things. It all starts with the lighting.

It's next to impossible for any metering system to consistently get it right in this kind of conditions. If you have a broad metering area, you've got a mix of sun and shade, the meter really has no idea what to do. If you narrow your metering area to center weighted or spot, then it's very sensitive to exactly what part of the subject you point at and you'll even get a widely varying result when you're on different parts of the subject.

If you want to do something that has a hope of also working when the players are in the sun, then set the meter to center weighted and pick the narrowest option your camera allows for center weighted. Then, take some test shots in both sun and shade while pointed at a uniformed player (from the team you are predominantly shooting), check the histogram and adjust any EV to get a non-clipped histogram.

Then, prepare yourself for lots of post processing on any shady shots with sunny background. You will have to adjust white balance, you will have to at least do a shadow adjustment. You may have to turn contrast down and you may need to drop the luminance of the sunlit grass colors.

So, after all that, your first three choices are to pick a different place on the field that has consistent lighting with foreground and background in the same light and faces without dark shadows.

I've never been able to make fill flash work for daytime sports at any distance. The problem is you only have two choices ~1/250 for full flash power or FP mode at 1/8 flash power. The 1/250th flash sync for full power is way to slow to stop action in daylight. The 1/8 power FP mode is way too little power to give you the reach and light you need.

ziggy53 · September 28, 2008

Here is an example from last year. The sun was so bright the bride was ducking into the shade from the groom. I had a tiny amount of fill going and 4 "stations" I had to move to for different parts of the ceremony. The fill ratio varied by the situation.

Here's what it looked like to start:

Note the bluish tint of the bridal gown and the extreme lighting ratios on the faces.

Here is what I wound up using:

Far from ideal, but I think pretty well improved.

This is the 5x7 crop I submitted to them:

Of course there were plenty more with the same problem.

Then again, some of the positions were just fine. At this station I was allowed more fill:

You do what you have to do.

KED · September 28, 2008

jfriend wrote:

You're probably not going to like this solution, but I think it's the best one there is.

Don't position yourself where you are going to get mixed light shots. There's almost always lots of other field that doesn't have this problem. At your very best possible exposure, you will get a shot in these conditions that needs lots of post processing to be acceptable. It will never be one of your best shots. I don't know why it took me so long to learn this, but lighting is still the #1 thing that matters. Lenses, digital, pixels, fps, none of that changes things. It all starts with the lighting.

It's next to impossible for any metering system to consistently get it right in this kind of conditions. If you have a broad metering area, you've got a mix of sun and shade, the meter really has no idea what to do. If you narrow your metering area to center weighted or spot, then it's very sensitive to exactly what part of the subject you point at and you'll even get a widely varying result when you're on different parts of the subject.

If you want to do something that has a hope of also working when the players are in the sun, then set the meter to center weighted and pick the narrowest option your camera allows for center weighted. Then, take some test shots in both sun and shade while pointed at a uniformed player (from the team you are predominantly shooting), check the histogram and adjust any EV to get a non-clipped histogram.

Then, prepare yourself for lots of post processing on any shady shots with sunny background. You will have to adjust white balance, you will have to at least do a shadow adjustment. You may have to turn contrast down and you may need to drop the luminance of the sunlit grass colors.

So, after all that, your first three choices are to pick a different place on the field that has consistent lighting with foreground and background in the same light and faces without dark shadows.

I've never been able to make fill flash work for daytime sports at any distance. The problem is you only have two choices ~1/250 for full flash power or FP mode at 1/8 flash power. The 1/250th flash sync for full power is way to slow to stop action in daylight. The 1/8 power FP mode is way too little power to give you the reach and light you need.

Actually, I think your proposed "best solution" is indeed that -- I guess I need to move my feet a little more! It seems so obvious once you point it out, and unlike with Ziggy's image, I DO have a choice in the matter. Your other points are excellent as well; thanks John!

KED · September 28, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

You do what you have to do.

Exactly! That's a pretty striking transformation from #1 to #3 . . .

In-Camera Metering Help?

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