Question about my job...

Comments

• Art Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  rgbivens wrote:

  Ok, so here is the skinny...
  
  I just started my job at an IT Solutions company where I build websites. I am currently on a hourly pay rate for the first 90 days then I will be evaluated and given a salary.
  
  The company is really growing and they are starting to do more jobs and some of them are starting to require photography. Their current process is to recommend a pro photographer and the client pays the photographer (how much I do not know). They just found out that I'm a decent photographer and want to give me a go at handling the photography. I was down for it until they said something along the lines of 'I'll be on the clock' meaning I'll just get paid my hourly rate for the job I signed a contract for.
  
  Now don't get me wrong, I don't get paid in skittles by any means but I think that I would be taken advantage of if they didn't compensate me in any other way. I will be using my own gear so that is another factor to consider. Another thing is who would hold the copyright? I would be the photographer but they would be employing me to shoot yet the client would own the content and use it on their website...how crazy is that???
  
  What do you think would be acceptable on my and their parts? Please examine this question when thinking about compensation, use of my equipment, and copyright holdings.
  
  Thanks,
  -GB

  
  How close did you read your contract or employment agreement that you signe prior to going to work there.....reason I am asking is this towards the bottom of all the bindings and job descriptions was there any kind of verbage to the sentiment of................PERFORMS OTHER DUTIES AS ASSIGNED......this used to be a joke pointed towards that person in the company known as the brown noser, cause he or she would do dang near anything that was poised to them by their boss no matter how belittling it might seem to a co-worker.........but now I have ran across that exact statement on several occaisons with different companies.....my first was when I hired on with the State of Kansas at Wichita State University.....just above my signature line was the last job requirement....it was like number 19 or something and at a point most would actually miss it........so I got asked to shoot various things for reports, a few head shots and other jobs that they wanted.....but since I was on the job and our School (School of Music in the College of Fine Art) did not have any equiptment, I got an agreement that should ANYTHING happen to my equiptment the School would have it fixed by a certified repairman not some camera shop down town.........I did get credit for all my work, even if it was just seen by patrons of the arts at WSU..................
  
  I was still shooting film for most of my work so the college has the origianls they of course bought the film of my choice......the last item I shot was on Digital for a End of Year Report and since I was not being paid big bucks over my salarie I got them to buy Memory cards for me to shoot on......and the origianls are archived on the CF card......but I got an extra one for me also..............
  
  There are ways to fignagle perks or swag to your benefit also.....those ways are different for each of us and our employers..............

  "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website
  
  

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• Foochar Registered Users Posts: 135 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  rgbivens wrote:

  Ok, so here is the skinny...
  
  I just started my job at an IT Solutions company where I build websites. I am currently on a hourly pay rate for the first 90 days then I will be evaluated and given a salary.
  
  The company is really growing and they are starting to do more jobs and some of them are starting to require photography. Their current process is to recommend a pro photographer and the client pays the photographer (how much I do not know). They just found out that I'm a decent photographer and want to give me a go at handling the photography. I was down for it until they said something along the lines of 'I'll be on the clock' meaning I'll just get paid my hourly rate for the job I signed a contract for.
  
  Now don't get me wrong, I don't get paid in skittles by any means but I think that I would be taken advantage of if they didn't compensate me in any other way. I will be using my own gear so that is another factor to consider. Another thing is who would hold the copyright? I would be the photographer but they would be employing me to shoot yet the client would own the content and use it on their website...how crazy is that???
  
  What do you think would be acceptable on my and their parts? Please examine this question when thinking about compensation, use of my equipment, and copyright holdings.
  
  Thanks,
  -GB

  With regard to who would hold the copyright, if you are doing the work "on the clock" then it would probably be considered a work for hire, in which case they would own the copyright to the images. Depending on their arrangement with the client it is possible for your company to assign the copyright to the client. No different then them holding the copyright to the websites you create while on the clock. With respect to compensation, if we exclude the equipment, do you feel that your skill/time as a photographer is more valuable than your skill as a web designer? Since you are currently working for an hourly wage if the photography pushes you into extra hours you'll still be compensated for those hours. And if you start comparing other photographer's billing rates to your hourly rate keep in mind that in addition to your own hourly wage you have to take into account that the company that employees you has to pay things like the employer's portion of Social Security benefits, worker's compensation coverage, liability coverage, and any benefits such as health insurance, vacation/sick time, etc. The rule of thumb I have heard is that an independent contractor's bill rate should be no less than 2x what they would expect to making per hour as an employee of a company doing the same work, and often times it will be more than 2x. If a your company is billing out your hours you'll often see it be 3x or more what they pay you per hour, since they've got to make a profit in there along with have income to pay your manager(s) etc. When you shift over to salary you'll want to make sure that the your compensation package in some way takes into account the extra hours you might end up working as a result of wearing two hats. Lots of different ways to address this, from a higher salary as a recognition of the fact that you'll be regularly working in excess of 40 hours, to comp time in exchange for hours worked above 40 etc.
  
  With respect to the equipment, if you are providing the equipment you need to look at some way to be compensated for the wear and tear on your equipment. The first thought that comes to mind is to work out an arrangement where the company (either yours or the end client) pays you a daily "rental" rate for any equipment you use. You would need to make sure that you have this agreement in writing and it would probably be a good idea to check what it would cost to rent the equipment in your area, so you can justify your fee schedule if they initially balk. You've then got two choices, you can either rent the gear rather than use yours, or have the additional money you are getting for the use of your gear for repairs, replacement gear, and possibly even new equipment. If the company questions this you may want to ask them if they expect you to provide your own computer and software to use for website development. In the same way when people travel for business their employer normally either pays for a rental vehicle for them to avoid wear and tear on their vehicle, or they compensate them for using their own vehicle.

  --Travis

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• johng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  My advice?
  Only do it if they supply the gear. You break your camera on the job your homeowners aint going to cover it.
  
  Here's the other issue. Only you have the answer to this one: a career in IT will offer most people much more money than a career in photography. You're just starting off in IT. You have to decide which careerr is more important to you - IT or photography. If you become the 'photo guy' at the company you'll spend time doing that rather than gaining skills in the IT field. And as someone whose spent the last 17 years in IT I can tell you it's easy to get left behind. Lose this IT job for any reason and 'taking photos' on your resume isn't going to buy you much in the IT world.
  
  So - you need to decide if photography is going to be your career or your hobby. If it's a hobby then don't let it interfere witth your career. Believe me the company would love to get both out of you but that doesn't help YOU.
  Just my opinion as both an IT guy and a photographer. I have a side business as a sports photographer but (other than these posts ) I don't let it interfere with the job that really pays the bills.

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• darkdragon Registered Users Posts: 1,051 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  I agree with johng on this. I don't personally see an issue with doing your regular job and the photos, but make sure you don't do photos instead of your web job. The trap I fell into a lot when I was just getting started in IT was "yeah i can do that" so I'd do "that" and my regular job duties still had to get done. What happens then? Well, you work OT to get the work done. That might seem fine now that you are hourly, but trust me, they will have a LOT more for you to do when you get put on salary. 60 hours a week to get everything done, with a 40 hour/wk paycheck. That can burn you out quick.
  
  If you do decide to do the photos, you should talk to them about purchasing a camera/lens specifically for the photos you need to do for them. In the long run it could save them getting sued (if you were to sue them for damage to your equiptment while on the job) and also woudl save you the hassle of having to worry about your gear, etc.

  ~ Lisa
  

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• rgbivens Registered Users Posts: 163 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  Thanks for all the great input everyone. It has really helped me out a lot. I have a lot more to say when I do have this conversation with my manager. I still don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I think I'm just going to lay it all out with him and raise the same points that you all have brought up.
  
  Thanks again,
  -GB

  Cameras: Nikon D200 w/grip, Nikon D70, Samsung NV11
  Lenses: Nikkor 50mm f/1.8, Nikkor 17-80mm f/3.5-4, Nikkor 70-300mm f/3.5-5.6, Lensbaby 2.0
  Accessories: Nikon SB-800, (2X) Old Flash Units, (4X) Poverty Wizards, GF Lightsphere, (3X) Lightstand and umbrella, Sandisk Extreme III 4.0 GB, Sandisk Ultra II 2.0 GB, Transcend 1.0 GB

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• ChatKat Registered Users Posts: 1,357 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  Gear
  Something else you might approach them with is the wear and tear on your equipment and having the right equipment for the job. Let's say they wanted to have you do product photography and the client is paying - and you don't have a shooting table or shooting tent; The job is not something you've done..then what? Same goes with any other kind - people might require rental of lights or modifiers or lenses....there is a limit to what a kit will do if you are going from hobbist to professional and the gear needs to match the job.
  
  

  rgbivens wrote:

  Thanks for all the great input everyone. It has really helped me out a lot. I have a lot more to say when I do have this conversation with my manager. I still don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I think I'm just going to lay it all out with him and raise the same points that you all have brought up.
  
  Thanks again,
  -GB

  Kathy Rappaport
  Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
  http://flashfrozenphotography.com

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• sweet caroline Registered Users Posts: 1,589 Major grins

  October 22, 2008 edited October 22, 2008

  You said the client pays the photographer, so shouldn't you get paid directly by the client like any other photographer? And your employer should pay you for doing your IT job.
  
  I know this is a different scenario, but... I teach preschool. I also do all the school portraits and staff photos. When I'm taking the pictures, I'm still "on the clock" as a teacher (as in, I don't have to take vacation hours even though I'm not technically teaching during those hours.) I get paid by the parents (the clients) for the photos and I retain the copyright. I donate the staff photos because the school is a nonprofit.
  
  My point is that you should definitely getting something more out of it than your regular wages. It's a separate job to be a photographer. Find out what the clients typically pay a photographer, set a rate, and list yourself as a recommended photographer.
  
  Caroline

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