External Hard drive /back up storage

Duckys54 · November 13, 2008

So as it would seem, shooting RAW is eating up memory on my computer at an alarming rate. I'm looking into getting a 1TB external hard drive for back up space but I know nothing about any brands, what I should look for in them (RPM, RAM, RAID, cache, etc.)

Anyone have any info they can share or some sites with good info? Thanks

chuckinsocal · November 13, 2008

I'm in the same boat and, if you don't mind, I'd like to expand the question a bit and ask, other than portability, is there any benefit, or lack thereof, to installing a second internal hard drive instead of getting an external drive?

iotashan · November 13, 2008

First, in reply to the internal/external HD question. Internal HD's will be cheaper and faster than their external counterparts. Of course, you have to actually install it inside your computer, assuming that there's the hardware and space to do it.

Secondly, I have to recommend getting a Drobo for external storage. Yes, it's $350 (or $500 for Firewire 800 & USB2) for a USB2 Drobo without any hard drives, but the benefits are huge. Let's say you get a Drobo and three 500GB Hard drives ($60 each from NewEgg.com). For $530, you get 1TB of protected storage. That means, if one of the three drives dies, you still get full access to all your data.

Now, let's say that you use up all that storage space in 6 months. You still have an empty slot on your Drobo, so all you have to do is pop another hard drive in, and it DOES NOT have to match the other drives in size, speed or brand. Even better, you don't have to reformat or repartition your hard drive... All your files stay where they are, you just get more storage space.

Filled up all your slots, and still need more storage? All it takes to upgrade is popping the smallest drive out, and replacing it with a larger drive. Again, no reformatting necessary. You can keep upgrading drives till you hit the Drobo's maximum capacity of 16TB.

Watch the demo video, see for yourself. The Drobo seems like the perfect solution for people who shoot raw.

chrisdg · November 13, 2008

I prefer an external hard drive, mainly for portability...but also (call me paranoid here...) but when I go out of town or on vacation, I like to hide the drive. If the PC were to get stolen, or damaged in a small localized fire for example, at least my backup images still have a chance if they are stored elsewhere.

Costco has some good deals on external drives, including 1TB units. Personally, unless budget is no issue, I wouldn't worry too much about the specs, since its a backup drive and not a primary working disk. The 640GB Western Digital MyBook (USB) I just purchased from Costco (for about $80 i think) has a feature where it turns on and off with the PC, so that's a bit more convenient than some external drives. Of course, if you have the funds, then the Drobo system discussed earlier is a flexible and powerful way to go.

I then regularly use SyncBackSE to incrementally backup all new or modified files from my primary drive to the external.

[Deleted User] · November 17, 2008

When you say backup I assume you do mean backup's of the real files that are sat on your PC.

Now it does not matter what hardware you use to backup your files, but what does matter is where the backup is located, if the backup drive is sat next to the PC then it won't be a lot of good in a fire or theft situation.

You need to look at having a second location, this can be a workplace (if you are fortunate to work for yourself and have an office) or a relative house. You install a backup drive at either location (assuming they a some form of DSL connection) and then do incremental backup to your remote backup site.

Now you have your files stored in two location and if the worst should happen at one site the files should still be available at the other site.

Tim

i_worship_the_King · November 17, 2008

First off, for the average user the Drobo sits at the top of the wish list. Full redundancy without headache...

Here's some more information to help make a better decision:

Connects from fastest to slowest:
eSATA 3Gb/s
eSATA 1.5Gb/s
Firewire 800
Firewire 400
Gigabit Ethernet (this is HEAVILY dependent on devices, network load, and traffic.)
USB 2.0

RAID1 means that your data is fully mirrored - meaning that a drive can fail without losing any data.

RAID0 is the fastest, but there is no redundancy, 1 failed drive takes down the entire array (these make excellent scratch/working disks, but HORRIBLE backups.)

RAID5 is a balance of redundancy and mirroring. Preferred, but usually much more expensive as it requires a minimum of 3 disks.

Hot-Spare is a drive that sits totally idle in the array until a disk fails. When that disk fails the hot spare kicks on and the array returns to full capacity in a few hours. This means that unless 2 disks fail almost simultaneously you can lose 2 disks and still have all your data intact. Usually a high-end feature coveted by the IT crowd (they can tend to other tasks or order a new drive at a better price rather than running straight to staples to replace a drive.)

RAID10 (my personal favorite) It requires a minimum of 4 disks, but is usually worth it in a high demand situation. Basically you have a mirrored set of RAID0 disks (thats 1+0 or, 10). This allows you to push the limit of your interconnect while still having redundancy. Even though eSATA runs a 3Gb/s there's no way a drive can write that much instantly. This allows the interconnect to run wide open.

I recently put a new enclosure on my christmas list, here it is below. I'm on a tight budget (college student) but this should get the job done.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111044

RAID 1 enclosure ran over eSATA3.0 most likely with 2x 1.5TB seagate 7200RPM drives in it. My next device will most likely be either a Drobo or a rack based storage solution. I do a bit of rendering in 3D programs and I'm looking to get a headless machine for premiere and lightwave rendering, attached to a 8 or 12 disk array in a rollable rack.

Art Scott · November 17, 2008

I pretty much looked at every option outthere and here is how I do it...NO Raid...I am not an IT specialist or computer guru but evryting I read said that raid actually breaks up your data to spread it across the 2-10 drives on the system....for me no good as I see it.....and maybe things have changed....but I looked at it like this adrive with all of my first gen. originals + 2 backups...1 drive with all postprocessed images + 2 back ups....nothing on these drives besides photos that is it......I have my "C" (nothng but working software and document files) + 2 exact copies made with migrateeasy 7 from Acronos software.....1 drive for all down loaded software originals + 1 copy (most companies have said that I can just redownload with proff of purchase and I do keep all of my receipts ..... 1 drive with my whole music collection + 2 exact back ups.....I bak up copy is clsoe at hand (basement) the others are gathered up once a month and updated then returned to the safe they live in....my personal basement back ups are in a fire/waterproof safe also and I still have room for about six more..........

I have quit using all but Seagate Drives (even tho Seagate now owns WD and Maxtor I still will not use them as they still more noisy and less reliable) forthe quietness and reliability of he drive......the Seagate Model I use the FreeAgent Pro for now.......

I have had some freakish things happen that taught me to be backed up....probably most weird was to wake up and find that my working photo drive had "self formatted" during the night as I slept....I was able to recover the files but all the titles, numbering and such was changed by the recovery software........a lot of work to re-catalog and run thru LR again.

i_worship_the_King · November 17, 2008

^ What you describe with RAID is called 'striping'. It effectively increases your throughput to an array by a factor equal to the number of disks. For instance 4 drives being striped are almost 4x faster than a single drive. This is described as RAID0 above and is NOT recommended for backing up. RAID1 however is mirroring - it takes 2 drives and creates an exact copy of your data on both drives. If one fails you simply replace it and you're back to having 2 copies once the mirror is restored (usual 1-2 hours.)

The advantage here is that you effectively have 3 copies of the data, 2 on the RAID1 mirror, and one on your main drive. I use 2 internal drives in a RAID0 for the speed as my system drive - all the files and such. When doing heavy video editing I also have an internal solid state drive that I use as the scratch disk, having random access times several times faster than even the 2 disk array. For backup I plan to use 2 drives in RAID1, meaning all in all 3 copies, and I can burn a DVD or two for archival purposes as needed.

Ric Grupe · November 19, 2008

My Book

TonyL · November 19, 2008

There are numerous backup solutions, but I have three external drives (2 of which I had extra external cases lying around).
The main backup is a seagate external drive. never has failed me.
I actually keep one right by my front door.
In case of a fire my wife has to get the kids out, grab the portable drive and then the cats.

Sweeper · November 28, 2008

cadguru wrote:

There are numerous backup solutions, but I have three external drives (2 of which I had extra external cases lying around).
The main backup is a seagate external drive. never has failed me.
I actually keep one right by my front door.
In case of a fire my wife has to get the kids out, grab the portable drive and then the cats.

The other option is to do what I have done. I purchased a fireproof safe a couple of years ago and immediately drilled a 1/2 inch hole in the bottom of it. Through this hole, I feed my USB and electrical lines into the safe. Connected to a 300 mb aux. drive, I feel quite secure if a fire occurs, since the safe is located in my garage and is the least likely place to be exposed to prolonged heat from a fire. The photo files that I am securing belong to customers, so I have taken the extra steps of preservation. As well, SmugMug also has a photo vault which for a small fee, can give you the ultimate in security. The time/heat rating of a safe is what you should look for when buying a safe however, since DVD and CD disks will warp if the heat levels exceed 125 degrees F. HD platters will take much higher temps before becoming damaged.

Just food for thought.

...Steve

TonyL · November 28, 2008

Sweeper wrote:

The other option is to do what I have done. I purchased a fireproof safe a couple of years ago and immediately drilled a 1/2 inch hole in the bottom of it. Through this hole, I feed my USB and electrical lines into the safe. Connected to a 300 mb aux. drive, I feel quite secure if a fire occurs, since the safe is located in my garage and is the least likely place to be exposed to prolonged heat from a fire. The photo files that I am securing belong to customers, so I have taken the extra steps of preservation. As well, SmugMug also has a photo vault which for a small fee, can give you the ultimate in security. The time/heat rating of a safe is what you should look for when buying a safe however, since DVD and CD disks will warp if the heat levels exceed 125 degrees F. HD platters will take much higher temps before becoming damaged.

Just food for thought.

...Steve

but you just killed the integrity of the safe by drilling a hole in it.
Reason I say this is being in architecture you have whats called rated walls.
The are rated to withstand fires for 1 hr, 2 hr, etc.
Once there is a component that compromised, the entire wall loses its rating.
Same would apply to the safe. you have just created an opening for smoke, water, etc. to get in.

Art Scott · November 28, 2008

Sweeper wrote:

The other option is to do what I have done. I purchased a fireproof safe a couple of years ago and immediately drilled a 1/2 inch hole in the bottom of it. Through this hole, I feed my USB and electrical lines into the safe. Connected to a 300 mb aux. drive, I feel quite secure if a fire occurs, since the safe is located in my garage and is the least likely place to be exposed to prolonged heat from a fire. The photo files that I am securing belong to customers, so I have taken the extra steps of preservation. As well, SmugMug also has a photo vault which for a small fee, can give you the ultimate in security. The time/heat rating of a safe is what you should look for when buying a safe however, since DVD and CD disks will warp if the heat levels exceed 125 degrees F. HD platters will take much higher temps before becoming damaged.

Just food for thought.

...Steve

Since heat rises my safe is in my basement inside a wall but dang near on the basement floor....not holes drilled and I have to physically remove the drives to update them but that is what was recommended by the FD and a couple locksmiths...................

mwgrice · December 6, 2008

RAID is not backup
One point I'd like to make is that RAID is not backup. Not to say anybody is saying that, but it usually comes up.

RAID gives you redundancy, meaning that it allows you to survive the loss of at least one hard drive (except RAID 0, of course). RAID does not help if you delete a file or a directory accidentally, or if your PC or the hard drives in your PC get physically destroyed (fire, flooding, lightning strike, etc.). A RAID array can also fail to recover from a drive failure properly in some situations. Ideally you'd have both RAID and a backup.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the more you can automate, the better off you are. If you have to remember to do it, it's way too easy to forget to do it or to put it off. Network storage is a good idea, particularly off site. You gotta be careful, though (e.g., the Digital Railroad fiasco).

Currently, I've got a DNS-323 with two drives in it. I run a nightly job to sync these two drives up. I've also got an external drive which I use as a backup (less often than I should), as well as some backup DVDs (which I do even less often). I gotta get around to do more with SmugVault.

bobrandklev · December 15, 2008

Here's my setup:

PC with two 1TB drives hardware raid stripped for speed. I have a 1TB USB Drive attached with nightly backups. (So the images are in two locations so far)

No you'll all love this! Take an old PC you have laying around with a CD drive and a hard drive and go to www.FreeNAS.org and download their free software as an ISO image. Now burn a CD with the ISO and put it in the old PC and boot it up. It will format your drive, install the software and turn your old PC into a NAS server which stands for Network Attached Storage. Think of it as a hard drive over the ethernet instead of usb. There is about 10-15 steps you have to follow to configure but the online instructions are great!

Now the speed of NAS is much slower across the ethernet vs. USB but if you have a 100mb or event a 1000 GB hub/switch the speeds are very fast and great for backup after hours or at night. Also if you can get the ethernet wire to another part of your house/office, garage or attic put the NAS server away from your office so it's not "stolen" if you are worried about someone taking your PC and external USB drive. It's free software and a good way to use an old PC. You can add more hard drives as needed and even run software RAID if you like and ANOTHER USB external hard drive for backup. (If you have questions let me know!)

So now the images are in 3 locations but you have to manually get them off site so I agree a Smug Vault is the way to go or if you want to store more than images just by an online folder from GoDaddy for $14 a year per GB! You can sync images, music any type of files!

Here's a link to my reseller site: http://www.securepaynet.net/gdshop/email/vsdb_landing.asp?ci=1796&prog_id=brandklev

In summary with the external USB is very portable and you can take it with you, with the external NAS you can locate it further away from your main PC (it's cheap) and with online you are re-assured it won't burn down either!

External Hard drive /back up storage

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