Another Beach Shoot

DavidS · November 14, 2008

I had a great time with this family at the beach and they really enjoyed themselves as well. The subjects were husband, wife, son, granddaughter and her boyfriend. The wife told me that her husband and son talked all the way home about what a great time they had. I was surprised because it is unusual for men to enjoy having their pictures taken. I know I am not the best photographer, but I was thankful that God could use me in a small way to capture memories for them of a special time they had together as a family. C&C welcome.

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I did not like the sunglasses.

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9.

Thanks for looking.

roentarre · November 15, 2008

Fabulour photographs in deed! Excellent!

love the lighting condition.

DavidS · November 15, 2008

roentarre wrote:

Fabulour photographs in deed! Excellent!

love the lighting condition.

Thank you.

crockett · November 15, 2008

David,

You have a nice set of images here and I can find some great positive things about them.

The location is ideal and beautiful. Your models seem at ease and to be genuinely enjoying themselves which speaks to your skill at developing a good relationship with the clients.

If searching for C&C coments my initial thoughts are that a few of these are dangerously close to snapshot type images. #6 & #7 especially so.

General thoughts would be that I would like you to show more intimacy between the group. I know it can feel cheesy and planned to pose your clients but don't think for a moment that the bulk of portrait photography (even location work) isn't posed or planned because in reality it is. And that is for a reason, because careful planning and posing, if done correctly, can make fantastic images. #3, 7 and even 6, I feel could be strengthened by showing more connection between the models, even if planned or posed.

Another general thought is handling the sun. The beach can be sooo difficult because it is bright for both the photographer and the models. The sun in these photos is camera right and setting parallel with the water line. However, in 1,3,4 and 6 they are angled a bit towards the sun, creating squinty eyes and dark shadows on the faces camera left. I believe you could still pose your models with their backs 3/4s to the sun, retained the water in the BG and then brought up the deep shadows with fill flash. This would give you more even lighting across the faces.

The rest are just comments or small thoughts:

#1 is the strongest photo in the set.
#2. I would like to see a different pose that shows more of his face and physique.
#3 I would like to see less space between the models or contact between them.
#4 The shadows on the right side of the faces should be lifted with reflector, flash, something.
#6 Matching clothing can make great portraits. I would like this highlighted more by being able to fully see the writing on both hoodies. Deep shadows on right side of face.
#8 I would like to see them making eye contact with the lens.
#9 I would try bringing up the exposure on the couple with whatever dodge/burn technique you use.

DavidS · November 15, 2008

Thank you David for the detailed comments and feedback. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out. I do agree with you on posing. All of the shots, except #2 and #3 were staged or posed. I need to learn how to give better direction and spot what works better and your advise is very helpful in that regard. The lighting is very difficult. I will try the 3/4 turn from the sun you suggested. I do not like back light at the beach, because it burns the background out. Hopefully the 3/4 shade will not put the sun in the background. I know you said the faces are angled to the sun on #6, but I am missing that. I see the light on the left sides of their faces and their eyes are in the shade. I was careful to position them that way. I can see how you would say their eyes look squinted, but I believe that is how they naturally look when they smile. Please help me if I am missing something. I do see how I could have done better by not angling the granddaughter's body as much, angling the grandmother's body more and having them touch. The grandmother does look a bit hokey in the photo. I see how you say it looks like a snapshot, but I am embarrassed to say I put a fair amount of thought into the photo, mostly regarding the lighting. Thank you once again for you feedback. I appreciate it tremendously.

crockett · November 16, 2008

David,

#7 Being planned or posed surprises me a bit? Are you shooting with a camera which allows you to chimp? The model furthest from the client is watching his feet? If you were going for the "Dad and future son-in-law walk down the hill, having a jolly time" After reviewing my frames, I would have immediately said "Son, I got you looking at the ground instead of forward or the lens...up back the hill, we're shooting it again." Him having closed eyes is what lead to the snapshot comment. His girlfriend would definately be looking for images were she can see his eyes.

Blowing out the background is not always a bad thing. In fact in #6 I think one of the things that detracts is that you have the BG too sharp. A shallower DOF would have helped.

Are you using fill flash at all? On the beach fill flash can be very usefull.

Yes, on #6 they aren't looking directly into the sun but I still would have turned them further away from the sun, including the youngest one. And then use fill flash. I want the sun to act as a hairlight not a side light as you have here.

With the younger being taller a quick pose to try is the younger behind the grandma, embracing grandma, head next to head. Don't wrap Grandma up like a blanket but just have the grand daughter wrap her hands just under Grandmas' arms.

Then you begin a procession:
-Grandma drops to her knees, grand daughter bends at the waist holding the same pose.
-Then grand daughter drops to her knees, holding the same pose.
-Then they both sit on the sand, holding the same pose.

You shoot all of these full, 3/4 and head and shoulder. During all of these the boyfriend and the father are behind you doing jumping jacks, making fart noises, tell embarassing stories, etc. Whatever works.

Provided below is not the greatest image in the world but it's an example of how you can still convey the "beach" theme yet lose/blow the background. The sun is directly over her left shoulder, if I move the camera just a bit to the right, I'd be shooting into the sun.

DavidS · November 16, 2008

crockett wrote:

David,

#7 Being planned or posed surprises me a bit? Are you shooting with a camera which allows you to chimp? The model furthest from the client is watching his feet? If you were going for the "Dad and future son-in-law walk down the hill, having a jolly time" After reviewing my frames, I would have immediately said "Son, I got you looking at the ground instead of forward or the lens...up back the hill, we're shooting it again." Him having closed eyes is what lead to the snapshot comment. His girlfriend would definately be looking for images were she can see his eyes.

Blowing out the background is not always a bad thing. In fact in #6 I think one of the things that detracts is that you have the BG too sharp. A shallower DOF would have helped.

Are you using fill flash at all? On the beach fill flash can be very usefull.

Yes, on #6 they aren't looking directly into the sun but I still would have turned them further away from the sun, including the youngest one. And then use fill flash. I want the sun to act as a hairlight not a side light as you have here.

With the younger being taller a quick pose to try is the younger behind the grandma, embracing grandma, head next to head. Don't wrap Grandma up like a blanket but just have the grand daughter wrap her hands just under Grandmas' arms.

Then you begin a procession:
-Grandma drops to her knees, grand daughter bends at the waist holding the same pose.
-Then grand daughter drops to her knees, holding the same pose.
-Then they both sit on the sand, holding the same pose.

You shoot all of these full, 3/4 and head and shoulder. During all of these the boyfriend and the father are behind you doing jumping jacks, making fart noises, tell embarassing stories, etc. Whatever works.

Provided below is not the greatest image in the world but it's an example of how you can still convey the "beach" theme yet lose/blow the background. The sun is directly over her left shoulder, if I move the camera just a bit to the right, I'd be shooting into the sun.

I see what you mean about #7 and looking down. You don't see his eyes and they appear closed. I can and do chimp, but have a small screen. I would not have noticed the eyes on that, especially in the sun. I do see how it would have been better if you could see his eyes. I was focusing on the expressions and missed the eyes.

Yes, I do use fill flash. I dial it in at -1 2/3 EV, because I do not want the photos to appear flashed. I may need to rethink the compensation, especially when using ETTL flash. I shoot manual and partial spot meter. If I remember correctly, I metered on their face for the highlights. In retrospect I think I would be better metering the shaded side of the face, when their face is side lit, under exposing by a stop or two to avoid blowing the highlights on the face and checking the histogram for blinkies on the face to be sure. What are your thoughts on this? I am not sure what to do about the flash. Does the flash look at the scene, which is bright, and cut back, or does it know who my subject is and provide the amount of light I am expecting it to. Could my fill flash have not provided enough light since I metered on the highlights? I am a bit confused about all of this. Thank you once again for your input.

I agree on the DOF. I accidentally moved it from the range I usually shoot in all the way up to f11 or higher for a short period during this shoot, if I remember.

I realize that it is not bad to blow out the background on some shots, but I think my clients want to see the color of the sky and beach in the majority of their shots during a beach shoot. I may have misunderstood you on this one, or not be understanding how to apply what you are suggesting.

Thanks for all of your posing suggestions on the shot with the grandmother and granddaughter.

Thanks again for all of your help on these!!! I hope you do not take my replies as disagreements. I am tring to work through these issues and understand them so I can improve. I am embarrassed to have put up such poor shots, but thankful that I did, because this has been a great learning experience.

grimace · November 16, 2008

Great looking series.

DavidS · November 16, 2008

grimace wrote:

Great looking series.

Thank you Adam.

jeffreaux2 · November 22, 2008

Wassup David....

I got your PM, amd remembered that I had forgotten to comment on these when I first saw them.

First off....I have very little experience with beach shoots....as I have only done a beach wedding once.....so...take that for what it is. I did think that for a first...and last beach wedding I did a pretty good job with the exposures. My reason for stating that is because I used the same approach to exposure that I would for any other location. I chose to shoot mine in "manual" although I also work in "AV" mode plenty. I based my exposure entirely upon the histogram. Pushing the highlights right to the edge, but without going overboard. This does two things. First, by setting a solid exposure that I am sure will not blow my highlights in "manual" I am protecting the detail in white clothing....a wedding dress in my case. Second, by pushing that exposure as far as possible to the right of the histogram I have recorded as much information as possible (at least as far as my camera's limitations) in the shadows. The shadows will be opened up a bit and my task in post will definately include setting a black point...as I may not have any black in the original file.

FWIW...no...I was also unable to "chimp" at my beach wedding. It was just to damn bright out. I kept the LCD set instead to provide me a glimpse of the histogram directly following the capture of each shot. I could view the histogram even though I couldnt make out the photographs on the LCD.

I used my flash set to HSS and ETTL throughout that ceremony...in the hopes that some of its light would help lift the shadows. Aside from that I varied from my usual approach and used a screw on filter over my lenses. A circular polorizer...in hopes that it would reduce some glare and en-richen the color of the water.

Those are the things I had control over.

What I did not have control over...

Everything else....including where the altar was set up in regard to the direction of the afternoon sun. Time of day. Cloudless skies. Vacationers nearby on the same stretch of beach.

After the wedding we spent some time doing a few casual directed shots on the beach as well as some shots with family. Here is an example

As you can see in that shot the sun was coming from their left, and at almost a 45 degree angle and still quite high in the sky. Your experienced eye will pick out the tell tale catchlight in the brides eyes from the flash. No, they werent looking anywhere in the vicinity of the sun...and YES they are squinting. There was only one direction I could have faced them to prevent the squints....at waters edge facing the water. They arent just squinting from the sun's direct light, but also from the reflected light of the sand and even the mildly hazy atmosphere that day. There was really no way around it. Thats why we usually wear sunglasses on the beach....right?

Anyway, besides the squinting....which is expected on a sunlit beach...the 45 degree angle worked best for me. It provided the most even light that still gave me some shadows...and so didn't look as flat as actually facing them in the direction of the sun.

What didn't work was....
Facing them away from the sun and trying to fill with flash. I shot some this way. They exposed well. They looked extremely "flashy"...a look that doesn't sit well with me and so were tossed.

I did manage some more artsy shots that were taken with the camera facing the general direction of the sun. Though they look fine, the subjects are still too far underexposed for what I would define as acceptable in a "portrait".

So...that pretty much covers what I know about beach portraits....sorry for the lack of a LOT of information!

Now...on to your photographs...

1-Nothing here really to critique. A nice shot in what appears to be natural light. The direction of the light here looks great and the processing fits well with the photograph.

2-Its very soft on my monitor. Judging by the softness of the shadows you have overxast light at that moment. THATs the light you WANT!!! I dont care for having him hiding behind the board and centered. It looks like the exposure here could be pushed a tad more as well as contrast.

3-Uh Oh...the sun popped out of the clouds and is striking them 90 degrees from theor noses. That makes your job near impossible. This also appears soft. I do like the casual approach that you were aiming for here.

4- I think this can be helped in PP. The light here is falling on them at a better angle. The blacks/ shadows are too heavy. I make this judgment based on the lack of detail across the front of her pants. I bet if you can ease up on the blacks and pump in some Lightroom fill light to get detail there, the shadows on the faces would be a bit more palettable.

5-Not much to critique here either. She seems to be in shade or else the sun is behind a bit of that cloud cover again. Very nice.

6-Same problem here regarding light as in number 3. Looks like you squirted in enough flash to lift the shadows some, but I think the angle of the sun is still hurting you here. Also, Travis would be a good recource on this, but I think that this late in the day and using flash you want to think about using a gel to warm the flash up. Maybe a 1/4CTO. I dont shoot much in this type of light, but Nik or Travis would definately know where to start in regards to a gel for this shot.

7-The exposure here, and direction of the natural light is great. The decision on whether you want him looking at the camera in "candid" typed captures is up to you. I would think that depending on what you were after, you might rather they don't look at the camera. The light though....is right.

8-They are still pretty much side lit here, but notice their shadows how soft. Diffused light again. It has brought the exposure values on the lit and unlit sides of their faces closer together. The blacks are a bit heavy as in #4. Id reccomend at least trying the same fix as #4 and see if it opens up the shadows even more. This is a nice photograph, and although I think it could be tweaked, Id also be happy with it "as-is".

9- I like the colors. I like the image. I shoot RAW always. Now and then a shot presents istelf that is just begging to be experimented with. I wonder if you exported two versions of this and combined them in photoshop what the resulting image would look like. One version with the current exposure and color temp....another exposed for the forground and warmed up even more. blending the two exposures at the waters edge. A tempting thought.

OK...long winded...but hopefully also to the point. Hope that helps you out David!

DavidS · November 22, 2008

Jeff,

Thank you for the detailed response!!! It was extremely helpful.

jeffreaux2 · November 22, 2008

DavidS wrote:

Jeff,

Thank you for the detailed response!!! It was extremely helpful.

No sweat!!!

One thing I noticed but forgot to mention was that many of your shots were located in the wet...or damp sand. Being much darker than the drier sand farther from shore it reflects less light....giving you less of a softbox effect. Angie(Agnieszka) gave me a little advice before I did my beach shoot. She told me all would be fine and that light would be pouring in from every direction. On the white sugary sands of the gulf coast she was exactly right. It was a lot like shooting near some of the large concrete or granite buildings I like to shoot near...getting nearly that same softbox effect.

It really was no big deal.....and was far better shooting at ISO100 with shutter speeds in excess of 1/1000 rather than ISO800 or worse with shutter speeds that aren't shake proof!

You have a great location. Be the boss!!!....make that light work for you and not against you!!

Sure wish I had a beach nearby!

... I drove four hours for that wedding!

DavidS · November 22, 2008

Thanks Jeff! That is a great tip. I had never noticed or thought of that. It will not work in all cases, because I want them close to the water for some of them. If you work it right, which I am not good at, you can get some nice reflections when the sand is wet enough. It will work for a lot of the shots though and I will try to remember and use that. Thanks again.

Another Beach Shoot

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