Bid This Job - Corporate Head Shots

Matt S · December 4, 2008

Please see this thread before replying to get an idea of the intent of this post.

Here is the job.

Corporate head shots: Headshots for all employees of a small local professional firm.

Locations: 2- One nearby the other an hour drive away

Employees: 5 nearby, 14 at the other location an hour away

Digital files for web/various print use.

Style: environmental or "studio" (photographers choice)

Indoor/Outdoor: Indoor, office settings

Size of community: 300,000 (i.e. this isn't New York)

I have a bid in mind, and actually have a couple of different ways to approach it. I will leave that out for now so as not to influence replies. When this thread has run it's course I will post my bid and the end result (was it accepted or not).

Bid away!!!! :thumb

i_worship_the_King · December 4, 2008

I work for ultra-cheap, but here's how I would figure it.

30 min setup & tearup at each place = 2 hours

30 min shoot @ first, 90 min shoot @ second = 2 hours

1 hour for editing.

= I'd do it for $200. That's $35 per hour plus $25 for travel.

Keep in mind this is what I'd do it for here in my market, and if I'm reading this right you're selling full publish rights, but no prints. So yea, $200-$250, maybe as low as $150 for a good friend.

Matt S · December 5, 2008

Interesting. Good start.

Anyone else. Come in it's a fun game!!:D

Art Scott · December 6, 2008

That corporation wouldn't be the Govt of Alaska would it....or maybe Palen Inc.:D.........on that note a flat bid would be between $500 and 750.....closer to 750.......I could go $500 if I was assured of great outdoor light at both places and knew I would not need an assistant or any lighting or reflectors....but since this a totally blind bid $750.00

Matt S · December 6, 2008

Thanks Art, sorry no Gov. Palin Shoot this time. :cry It's funny I have actually considered doing political photography (for hire, not PJ) but so far have shied away from that, I just don't know if I want to tie myself to anyone's politics like that.

Thanks for the bid. I am going to let this run for the weekend and then I will post my actual bid.

Digital Illusions · December 6, 2008

i am going to have to go with Art on this one. corporate photography (unless family) would not get a discount from me so i would bid $750 for the shoot and CD of photos. Prints would be extra.

Repeat business is another story though.

Matt S · December 6, 2008

Brian thanks for the bid.

Keep em coming. And if you have your own, post away in a new thread. I will happily return the favor.

ChatKat · December 6, 2008

California....
I charge $125.00 for a headshot in my studio - no change of clothes or makeup/hair 15 to 30 minutes of shooting, a CD and minimal post processing. I'd discount for quanitity. With travel time and set up I'd do the first five headshots for $500 on locacation and the second set would be $1250. - unlimited use

Matt S · December 6, 2008

Thanks Kathy, I appreciate the california part too. Considering region (market) is a key factor.

i_worship_the_King · December 6, 2008

Good gravy.... I shot 40-some couples assembly line style at an event for less than $300. This thread is really eye opening

. However, it was my *first* time out. Paid for my new backdrop though.

Matt S · December 6, 2008

That's why I thought this would be so interest an experiment. Everyone can benefit.

MaryBoo · December 7, 2008

Matt S wrote:

Please see this thread before replying to get an idea of the intent of this post.

Here is the job.

Corporate head shots: Headshots for all employees of a small local professional firm.

Locations: 2- One nearby the other an hour drive away

Employees: 5 nearby, 14 at the other location an hour away

Digital files for web/various print use.

Style: environmental or "studio" (photographers choice)

Indoor/Outdoor: Indoor, office settings

Size of community: 300,000 (i.e. this isn't New York)

I have a bid in mind, and actually have a couple of different ways to approach it. I will leave that out for now so as not to influence replies. When this thread has run it's course I will post my bid and the end result (was it accepted or not).

Bid away!!!!

Just coming off of a Preschool job that was a great learning experience, (read big head ache) I have a couple of questions that would affect my bid...

1) You said the job was to shoot ALL of the employees. Are you required to go back and shoot again if someone is not in the office on the day of your shoot? (Over 10% of my preschooler missed picture day.)

2) Do they want the same pose(s) for each person? How many poses are you planning on shooting per person? One background or multiple? Will the lighting be the same for all poses?

3) As for the digital files to be delivered. Is it one digital file per pose or do they want several types of files for each pose ? (A file for web use would be different than a file for print right? And maybe they want them pre-cropped for various sizes.)

4) Will you allow the customer to pick the final pose(s) are will you do that?

4a) If the customer will be reviewing the proofs, how will that be done? Customer reviews via website? Customer reviews from printed photos? (How large are the photos?) Will each person pick their own final image or will one person from corporate? What happens if you don't get a decision in time for your delivery deadline?

5) How much customer contact will be face to face, and will that be at the local office or the one an hour away? I'm thinking of dropping off and picking up the contract & payment. Reviewing the proofs. And delivering the final product (DVD via snail mail or in person, email or download from website)

6) What is the turn around time from shoot to delivery?

7) Do you have a contract document in place to cover this type of work? Or do you have to do some leg work and create one. Will you be having a lawyer review it?

8) Do you have a release document already prepared to give them permission to use the images? Or do you have to do some leg work and create one? Will you be having a lawyer review it?

9) I'm assuming that you will be doing this without an assistant? (I needed one for all of those little preschool tikes, but didn't realize it until after I bid the job.)

10) Will you be offering any re-shoots if they are not satisfied with the images from the initial shoot? (example: The CEO is not happy - he wore the wrong tie)

At least you don't have to process individual print orders from each person

Mary

Snowgirl · December 7, 2008

Matt S wrote:

Please see this thread before replying to get an idea of the intent of this post.

Here is the job.

Corporate head shots: Headshots for all employees of a small local professional firm.

Locations: 2- One nearby the other an hour drive away

Employees: 5 nearby, 14 at the other location an hour away

I'm thinking you'd need at least 15 minutes per shoot (assuming no wrinkles) so 75 minutes for the 1st location and 210 at the 2nd for a total of 4 3/4 hours @ $75 - there's $356.25 to start with.
PLUS 2 hours travel time. - add another $150 = $506.25
+ 20 minutes set up and 20 minutes tear down per location = 80 minutes = another $100
+ mileage (60 miles each way = 120 miles. I'm Canadian so that's 193 km @ $0.48 per = $92.64

So - just the shoot alone would be .... ta da.....$$698.89 (which, incidentally, I'd just round up to $700)

Digital files for web/various print use.

Since in essence you'd be licensing all rights for each image (more or less) and you'd have to provide 2 versions - web and print ready of each image - and there's post-processing time (cropping, editing, colour correcting, whatever - getting rid of zits - probably another MINIMUM 15 minutes per image so THAT's worth $356.25) and it's a bulk buy, so to speak, I'd add another $25 per person x 19 = $475

+ the $700 above so your MINIMUM price would be $1175 + applicable taxes

That only works out to $61.84 per person - not much for a head shot in my opinion.

Style: environmental or "studio" (photographers choice)

Indoor/Outdoor: Indoor, office settings

Size of community: 300,000 (i.e. this isn't New York)

I have a bid in mind, and actually have a couple of different ways to approach it. I will leave that out for now so as not to influence replies. When this thread has run it's course I will post my bid and the end result (was it accepted or not).

Bid away!!!!

See inserted comments please

ian408 · December 7, 2008

If I were going to do it, I'd lean more toward the $1200 side. For the extra, I would spend time with the client to understand their business (including the scope of their customer base), how the client wants to portray the business and most importantly, how they would like to use the product I am providing. I'd also want to suggest a company photo. I might, at additional cost, also suggest studio head shots with a bit more attention to details like makeup for the e-staff if the business warrants it. I would also include a "make up day" for those on travel or otherwise out of the office.

Why the extra stuff? A group photo can be useful when preparing annual reports or when reaching out to their customers/community. If the company gives presentations or perhaps contributes articles to publications, then a quality head shot might be requested by the publication. Each of these items is also an attempt to upsell the client. I'm not saying each is an automatic attempt but you'll get an idea what kinds of extras might be pitched to the customer during your initial client meeting.

Matt S · December 7, 2008

MaryBoo wrote:

Just coming off of a Preschool job that was a great learning experience, (read big head ache) I have a couple of questions that would affect my bid...

I will answer these as best I can.

1) You said the job was to shoot ALL of the employees. Are you required to go back and shoot again if someone is not in the office on the day of your shoot? (Over 10% of my preschooler missed picture day.)

I would not be required to, however I would do it as a matter of customer relations

2) Do they want the same pose(s) for each person? How many poses are you planning on shooting per person? One background or multiple? Will the lighting be the same for all poses?

Single set up, background etc. By my own choice (portfolio development etc.) I also will likely do some PJ style, lighting is not a problem I am used to this from weddings and other on the move events.

3) As for the digital files to be delivered. Is it one digital file per pose or do they want several types of files for each pose ? (A file for web use would be different than a file for print right? And maybe they want them pre-cropped for various sizes.)

I will deliver a disk with one set of files for print and also a folder of resized for web use. Any special cropping and touch up would be charged at my normal retouching rates

4) Will you allow the customer to pick the final pose(s) are will you do that?

Good question, I will do the first cull, and have the customer choose from a limited # of proofs

4a) If the customer will be reviewing the proofs, how will that be done? Customer reviews via website? Customer reviews from printed photos? (How large are the photos?) Will each person pick their own final image or will one person from corporate? What happens if you don't get a decision in time for your delivery deadline?

Online gallery (standard for me). As to handling the choices, I will tell the owner that he is responsible for getting the selections to me, he is welcome to choose or solicit his employees opinions, but in the end he must get to me in time.

5) How much customer contact will be face to face, and will that be at the local office or the one an hour away? I'm thinking of dropping off and picking up the contract & payment. Reviewing the proofs. And delivering the final product (DVD via snail mail or in person, email or download from website)

No much will be required, this customer is well known to me and a previous client. We are able to conduct the vast majority of this via email and fax. He will sign the contract (verbally agreed to prior) right before the shoot.

6) What is the turn around time from shoot to delivery?

My turn around is spelled out at 14 days, however I actually shoot for 2 to 3

7) Do you have a contract document in place to cover this type of work? Or do you have to do some leg work and create one. Will you be having a lawyer review it?

Yes, no laywer review.

8) Do you have a release document already prepared to give them permission to use the images? Or do you have to do some leg work and create one? Will you be having a lawyer review it?

Yes, no laywer review

9) I'm assuming that you will be doing this without an assistant? (I needed one for all of those little preschool tikes, but didn't realize it until after I bid the job.)

No assistant, although I generally use one. My assistant is unavailable for this job

10) Will you be offering any re-shoots if they are not satisfied with the images from the initial shoot? (example: The CEO is not happy - he wore the wrong tie)

Generally speaking yes I would, now that doesn't mean I would do it for absurd reasons. Were the client unhappy with my work that is one thing, unhappy with items beyond my control is another

At least you don't have to process individual print orders from each person

So true!!
Mary

See my responses in bold type.

Matt S · December 7, 2008

ian408 wrote:

If I were going to do it, I'd lean more toward the $1200 side. For the extra, I would spend time with the client to understand their business (including the scope of their customer base), how the client wants to portray the business and most importantly, how they would like to use the product I am providing. I'd also want to suggest a company photo. I might, at additional cost, also suggest studio head shots with a bit more attention to details like makeup for the e-staff if the business warrants it. I would also include a "make up day" for those on travel or otherwise out of the office.

Why the extra stuff? A group photo can be useful when preparing annual reports or when reaching out to their customers/community. If the company gives presentations or perhaps contributes articles to publications, then a quality head shot might be requested by the publication. Each of these items is also an attempt to upsell the client. I'm not saying each is an automatic attempt but you'll get an idea what kinds of extras might be pitched to the customer during your initial client meeting.

Some very good ideas in there. Thanks

Matt S · December 8, 2008

Ok time to tell the tale.

My bid was for $750 in the end.

I worked it several different ways.

I tried it per person- Ditched this plan, as they may cut a few people to save money but my work load would not change much. Also commodities compete only on price. Once it's numbers of something/$ it gets away from the service provided.

Day rate (location 1)+ half day rate(location 2). Came out similar or even higher than upper numbers suggested in this thread. Too expensive. While from my perspective I will likely block out a day and half of bookings to complete the job, from my customers perspective there is only about 6 hours time involved on site with them (excluding travel). I nearly bid it this way, but further conversations with the client made me realize that it would likely send them to my competition or to scale back the project to only include the 3 partners in the firm.

In the end I worked it as two on location portrait sitting fees. Plus travel expenses, and figured in the extra time per person to do the shoot. 10-15 minutes with each person.

Came up with $750 and it was accepted. The quote prepared does not list out itemized costs, simply a number for the job.

Thanks for participating everyone. This was helpful to me and hope a few others.

Now someone else put one out there for us to hash out.

ian408 · December 8, 2008

One thing that's important to note is costs for different markets are just that. Different.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts once the job is complete. You don't need to be specific, just let us know if you covered your costs, covered your costs and made money or something else.

RogersDA · December 8, 2008

ian408 wrote:

One thing that's important to note is costs for different markets are just that. Different.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts once the job is complete. You don't need to be specific, just let us know if you covered your costs, covered your costs and made money or something else.

It would also be interesting to know what their upper limit was; e.g. could he have bid $1200 and still have it accepted. Perhaps they were budgeting for a lot more, and this was a real barain for them for this shoot.

Matt S · December 8, 2008

Hi David, no I don't think there was much left on the table. I floated a $1200 number in a conversation and it didn't fly. I know the owner well enough to know that is was honest and not dickering. The truth was that they only "needed" the shots for the partners and figured that it would cost X number of $$ for that alone. They though it would be nice to get everyone done, since someone would be on site anyway for hopefully not a huge amount more. i.e. they figured they it would cost 400-500 or so for the 3 partners (due to set up, travel, Call out fee etc) but they figured for a reasonable amount more they could do the whole staff as kind of a perk for them. Since this was an extra not a "need", they were not prepared to pay big bucks for it. Had I stuck to the quote they would have scaled back the project to just the partners.

As to whether or not I make money or cover costs. It really depends on what all you factor in. Taxes, equipment depreciation, time, and on and on. Since some of that is difficult to figure into one job, it would be difficult to say for sure whether or not this one job is ultimately profitable.

However for simply out of pocket costs (gas, time, taxes) I will be doing just fine.

Snowgirl · December 9, 2008

Matt S wrote:

As to whether or not I make money or cover costs. It really depends on what all you factor in. Taxes, equipment depreciation, time, and on and on. Since some of that is difficult to figure into one job, it would be difficult to say for sure whether or not this one job is ultimately profitable.

However for simply out of pocket costs (gas, time, taxes) I will be doing just fine.

That's how I came up with an hourly rate for myself - all of those things are factored into the equation up front. So, unless it's a pet project for me (e.g. the local 4-H club, for example) I don't pack my bag if I can't get $75 an hour plus travel expenses if it's outside my area.

Read Herrington's book - Best Business Practices for Photographers. it was an eye-opener for me.

ian408 · December 9, 2008

Matt S wrote:

As to whether or not I make money or cover costs. It really depends on what all you factor in. Taxes, equipment depreciation, time, and on and on. Since some of that is difficult to figure into one job, it would be difficult to say for sure whether or not this one job is ultimately profitable.

However for simply out of pocket costs (gas, time, taxes) I will be doing just fine.

To be profitable, you have to factor these things in. If you are in business, not doing so will bankrupt you. Its like bleeding to death slowly

Each is an out of pocket expense--just due on a different schedule. You have to know that each time you go out on a job that you will be profitable--don't get me wrong, there are times you will not make money either because you choose to do charity work or because you under bid a job. You must be reasonably certain you'll make money or you must adjust your pricing and or bidding process so that you do. Especially when the market is saturated and margins are low as yours seems to be.

If you don't know, how will you buy gear, upgrade your studio or pay the tax man?

davidweaver · December 11, 2008

I'll bid this at the minimum day rate of $850.

My thoughts. Nearby or an hour is about the same in Central Texas.
About 3 hours of shooting/setup/breakdown time. A little more for farther away but only a few more shots.
Remote gear, softboxes, strobes, etc.
I'm selling pics and the rights.
There are 3-4 hours of post processing work to be done so in total it is an all day gig but not really more involved than that. Delivery of images on a CD.

Seems about right.

geospatial_junkie · December 11, 2008

At my consulting firm I am charged out at $100/hr, so in my opinion its ver similar.

$200 for one site (2hrs)
$200 for the other site (2hrs)
$200 for the drive (1hr)
$150 just for equipment costs, overhead, etc..

Now comes the kicker. You mentioned you wanted the photos for promotional purposes. Are you planning on mentioning the photographer's name under the photos? If not, that means the photographer is giving up copyright to the image. If that is that case, it is subjective to the photographer.

Since these are just head shots and not actual photoshoots, then I would release them for another $200.

Total: $950.00 (without taxes)

This is assuming there is NO post-processing being done on these and I am shooting JPG's. Post-processing is billed at 1/2 rate per hour.

Matt S · December 12, 2008

ian408 wrote:

To be profitable, you have to factor these things in. If you are in business, not doing so will bankrupt you. Its like bleeding to death slowly Each is an out of pocket expense--just due on a different schedule. You have to know that each time you go out on a job that you will be profitable--don't get me wrong, there are times you will not make money either because you choose to do charity work or because you under bid a job. You must be reasonably certain you'll make money or you must adjust your pricing and or bidding process so that you do. Especially when the market is saturated and margins are low as yours seems to be.

If you don't know, how will you buy gear, upgrade your studio or pay the tax man?

I think I did not explain myself well enough. I am aware of all that you mention and keep good books to stay on top of those things. I do know what I need to make to stay profitable overall. What makes it difficult to say how one job will turn out is that I am a very small business with some fixed expenses (insurance etc.). Since my workload and gross can change very dramatically month to month it's hard to say 10% the job goes to this or that, when at months end if it was a slow month 50% of that job may need to go to those fixed expenses and savings for equipment replacement budgets. I also of course set aside money for the tax man. All my other expenses are part of each job, and therefor known and included in each bid. Predicting these things becomes more solid as time goes on and the business grows and work loads are steadier and somewhat predictable. For now I minimize overhead, and never let my operations run at a deficit, thinking that the next job will cover it.

The short way of putting all of this is that volume is my biggest variable at this time. As it changes so does the percentage required from each job needed to pay those fixed expenses.

I hope that better explains what I was trying to say.

ian408 · December 12, 2008

Matt S wrote:

I hope that better explains what I was trying to say.

It does. Thank you.

Bid This Job - Corporate Head Shots

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